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Verad · **08-21-2015, 02:55 PM**

Once again, wit is actually very easy. There has been a lot of discussion in this thread that seems to think otherwise, but it is irrelevant.

Ignacius · **08-21-2015, 03:16 PM**

(08-21-2015, 02:55 PM)Verad Wrote: Once again, wit is actually very easy. There has been a lot of discussion in this thread that seems to think otherwise, but it is irrelevant.

Wit, at least real wit, isn't easy. Â Real wit is relevant to the discussion being had, and it's cooked up on the fly. Â That's relatively hard for most people to do consistently, even with the time granted by RP post-lapse to do.

I don't doubt you think it's very easy, but believe me, you don't have to see people bombing too often to realize it's not universal. Â Granted, it's also something you have to exercise, so people used to writing conversationally, rather than in isolation, tend to develop that a bit better. Â It's not easy for everyone, though. Â Most people can only think of a really good comeback after a few hours (I think Ed Byrne did a bit on that).

Just recognize that, yeah, some people can't really do it. Â They're not bad writers, they're not necessarily humorless, and they can be very entertaining. Â However, some people just can't turn a phrase or cast off a decent one-liner that references the spot. Â And it's hard for quite a few people to fake.

For some people, it does come very naturally. Â If you're one of those people, be thankful.

Verad · **08-21-2015, 03:18 PM**

(08-21-2015, 03:16 PM)Ignacius Wrote:
(08-21-2015, 02:55 PM)Verad Wrote: Once again, wit is actually very easy. There has been a lot of discussion in this thread that seems to think otherwise, but it is irrelevant.

Wit, at least real wit, isn't easy. Â Real wit is relevant to the discussion being had, and it's cooked up on the fly. Â That's relatively hard for most people to do consistently, even with the time granted by RP post-lapse to do.

Much easier than one might think! All it requires is a healthy dose of snobbery and classism.

Oli! · **08-21-2015, 03:21 PM**

I think we're getting into Thinly Veiled Insults territory again.

Desu Nee · **08-21-2015, 03:24 PM**

Yep. We really went thinly veiled insults.

Verad · **08-21-2015, 03:26 PM**

(08-21-2015, 03:21 PM)Oli! Wrote: I think we're getting into Thinly Veiled Insults territory again.

The notion of real wit is a classist one. It presumes a certain style of speaking and a form of quick response that was most easily accessible in the past to those with certain educational and financial opportunities.Â

In this we need to think of wit as distinct from humor, because even if we hold the idea of "Do those around the speaker find him/her to be witty," then this man:

[Image: g2582580000000000006d957f3c6c4fce4785572...c4cb0f.jpg]

[Image: g2582580000000000006d957f3c6c4fce4785572...c4cb0f.jpg]

Is very witty to a significant portion of the population if we don't make that distinction.

Ignacius · **08-21-2015, 03:27 PM**

(08-21-2015, 03:21 PM)Oli! Wrote: I think we're getting into Thinly Veiled Insults territory again.

I think he's being sarcastic, Oli, it's fine! Â I went to architecture school, nobody on this forum has a chance of making me feel bad if they tried. Â The KSA was the mental equivalent of the agoge. Â I think the better response is:

(08-21-2015, 03:18 PM)Verad Wrote:
(08-21-2015, 03:16 PM)Ignacius Wrote:
(08-21-2015, 02:55 PM)Verad Wrote: Once again, wit is actually very easy. There has been a lot of discussion in this thread that seems to think otherwise, but it is irrelevant.

Wit, at least real wit, isn't easy. Â Real wit is relevant to the discussion being had, and it's cooked up on the fly. Â That's relatively hard for most people to do consistently, even with the time granted by RP post-lapse to do.

Much easier than one might think! All it requires is a healthy dose of snobbery and classism.

Oh God, but who has time for them?

Oli! · **08-21-2015, 03:28 PM**

(08-21-2015, 03:26 PM)Verad Wrote:
(08-21-2015, 03:21 PM)Oli! Wrote: I think we're getting into Thinly Veiled Insults territory again.

The notion of real wit is a classist one. It presumes a certain style of speaking and a form of quick response that was most easily accessible in the past to those with certain educational and financial opportunities.Â

In this we need to think of wit as distinct from humor, because even if we hold the idea of "Do those around the speaker find him/her to be witty," then this man:

Is very witty to a significant portion of the population if we don't make that distinction.

I dunno, this seems like a sudden and unnecessary leap to me.

I think it's pretty well established throughout the thread that we're talking about this wit.

Verad · **08-21-2015, 03:30 PM**

(08-21-2015, 03:27 PM)Ignacius Wrote: I think he's being sarcastic, Oli, it's fine! Â I went to architecture school, nobody on this forum has a chance of making me feel bad if they tried. Â The KSA was the mental equivalent of the agoge. Â I think the better response is:

Oh God, but who has time for them?

Not quite! It is, historically, a snob's argument, the same way that Shakespeare couldn't have possibly written his plays because there's just no way anybody in the middle-class could have written things that sharp. Perhaps you are not consciously being a snob about it, and that is fine.Â

As for time, well, you went to architecture school, and I to a liberal arts degree. Clearly the time is self-evident.

Verad · **08-21-2015, 03:30 PM**

(08-21-2015, 03:28 PM)Oli! Wrote: I dunno, this seems like a sudden and unnecessary leap to me.

I think it's pretty well established throughout the thread that we're talking about this wit.

Yes! And that wit is a snobby wit.

Oli! · **08-21-2015, 03:33 PM**

(08-21-2015, 03:30 PM)Verad Wrote:
(08-21-2015, 03:28 PM)Oli! Wrote: I dunno, this seems like a sudden and unnecessary leap to me.

I think it's pretty well established throughout the thread that we're talking about this wit.

Yes! And that wit is a snobby wit.

I don't really see snobbyness anywhere in there, though.

Intelligence, yes, but intelligence belonging solely to the upper class is neither universal historically, nor implied in this thread, I don't think.

Telluride · **08-21-2015, 03:36 PM**

(08-21-2015, 03:33 PM)Oli! Wrote:
(08-21-2015, 03:30 PM)Verad Wrote:
(08-21-2015, 03:28 PM)Oli! Wrote: I dunno, this seems like a sudden and unnecessary leap to me.

I think it's pretty well established throughout the thread that we're talking about this wit.

Yes! And that wit is a snobby wit.

I don't really see snobbyness anywhere in there, though.

Intelligence, yes, but intelligence belonging solely to the upper class is neither universal historically, nor implied in this thread, I don't think.

If brevity is the soul of wit, then perhaps we've already seen this thread at our wit's end.

Bonus thought: shouldn't the original quote have been, "Brevity is wit's soul?"

Verad · **08-21-2015, 03:37 PM**

(08-21-2015, 03:33 PM)Oli! Wrote: I don't really see snobbyness anywhere in there, though.

Intelligence, yes, but intelligence belonging solely to the upper class is neither universal historically, nor implied in this thread, I don't think.

Another similarly murky, culturally-defined term, that. The fact that a distinction has been made in this thread between technical proficiency and intelligence is just one facet of how vague it can be.

But to get to the point: All you really need to do to be seen as a wit in RP is portray your wit with sufficient authority that when it's well-received, it's seen as intelligent, and when it isn't, it's seen as pretentious snobbery.

Verad · **08-21-2015, 03:37 PM**

(08-21-2015, 03:36 PM)Telluride Wrote: If brevity is the soul of wit, then perhaps we've already seen this thread at our wit's end.

Bonus thought: shouldn't the original quote have been, "Brevity is wit's soul?"

It would have been a lie from an idiot who died behind a tapestry in either case.

Oli! · **08-21-2015, 03:41 PM**

(08-21-2015, 03:37 PM)Verad Wrote:
(08-21-2015, 03:33 PM)Oli! Wrote: I don't really see snobbyness anywhere in there, though.

Intelligence, yes, but intelligence belonging solely to the upper class is neither universal historically, nor implied in this thread, I don't think.

Another similarly murky, culturally-defined term, that. The fact that a distinction has been made in this thread between technical proficiency and intelligence is just one facet of how vague it can be.

But to get to the point: All you really need to do to be seen as a wit in RP is portray your wit with sufficient authority that when it's well-received, it's seen as intelligent, and when it isn't, it's seen as pretentious snobbery.

That leaves out the other bit that people were hoping to get at here, namely being funny. Wit includes humor, after all. Being the target of condescension is very rarely funny, and although it can be, it seems that that formula would be more miss than hit to many.

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"Witty" characters, can they be roleplayed by the dumb?

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