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FreelanceWizard · **09-21-2015, 02:45 PM**

(09-21-2015, 02:39 PM)Calliope Cloverbloom Wrote: YouÂ might be doing text generation, but I'm pretty sureÂ I'mÂ writing as if it's a novel (e.g. properly, or as much so as possible).Â One of us is writing a story. The other is apparently doing some computer programming or something, I don't know. :p

From your perspective, then, yes, they're very different things and I can understand, thinking in terms of your roleplay being computer programming and not writing, that you would want to avoid a lot of punctuation. One stray apostrophe and your entire post does nothing but return "Abort, Retry, Fail?" over and over.Â

From my perspective, since I'm writing and not doing computer programming, they're pretty much the same thing.

No, you're not writing a novel. You're doing collaborative storytelling in an electronic environment. Please do not assume that because I happen to know about computers that I can't RP, that I RP thinking that things are programming, and so forth. Seriously, where the hell did that come from? Where have I ever said anything like that?

Like I said, it's a stylistic difference. If you want to dismiss a wide spectrum of RPers on a microscopic difference that is, I might note, fairly new (quotation marks in /say are in vogue nowadays, but they haven't been historically in MMOs and the MU* world), be my guest. However, to equate it with leet speak is disingenuous and patently unfair.

Talan Dracht · **09-21-2015, 02:51 PM**

Wow, lots of good discussion here. It's interesting to see all the different habits people have and reasoning for their habits.

Mine is a little bit tame, I always use " " in /say partly because it's habit itself from both using it in /em and simply from using it so often in writing itself.

The other reason why is because I usually pair dialogue with an action in /say and having quotations helps define what's spoken and what's being done.

Rufus Wightman · **09-21-2015, 02:53 PM**

I figure I'll throw my hat into this ring, because who's going to stop me? NOBODY, THAT'S WHO.

Anyway, I never used to use quotations marks before coming to FFXIV. But upon seeing it was pretty much the 'in-thing', I began to pick it up. I can understand why others don't choose to use it, but I definitely think it goes a way to help define what is IC and isn't. As for adding emotes into /say, for some reason, I try to avoid that, preferring instead to close it into a /emote. I dunno, it just seems more convenient that way. Or more recognizable, I guess?

Either way, I don't mind what someone chooses to do. RP is RP, and as long as a good story is told, it don't bother me none!

Berrod Armstrong · **09-21-2015, 02:54 PM**

(09-21-2015, 02:45 PM)FreelanceWizard Wrote:
(09-21-2015, 02:39 PM)Calliope Cloverbloom Wrote: YouÂ might be doing text generation, but I'm pretty sureÂ I'mÂ writing as if it's a novel (e.g. properly, or as much so as possible).Â One of us is writing a story. The other is apparently doing some computer programming or something, I don't know. :p

From your perspective, then, yes, they're very different things and I can understand, thinking in terms of your roleplay being computer programming and not writing, that you would want to avoid a lot of punctuation. One stray apostrophe and your entire post does nothing but return "Abort, Retry, Fail?" over and over.Â

From my perspective, since I'm writing and not doing computer programming, they're pretty much the same thing.

No, you're not writing a novel. You're doing collaborative storytelling in an electronic environment. Please do not assume that because I happen to know about computers that I can't RP, that I RP thinking that things are programming, and so forth. Seriously, where the hell did that come from? Where have I ever said anything like that?

Like I said, it's a stylistic difference. If you want to dismiss a wide spectrum of RPers on a microscopic difference that is, I might note, fairly new (quotation marks in /say are in vogue nowadays, but they haven't been historically in MMOs and the MU* world), be my guest. However, to equate it with leet speak is disingenuous and patently unfair.

As someone who now does quotation marks in /say, I agree with Freelance on this one. My choice to move over to quotation marks was based on style, and style alone. I was not a lazy writer before it in the least, it was simply a style that appealed to me at the time.Â

Quotation marks are an indication that something is being said/spoken. The /say function already indicates that whatever is typed in there is being said by the character, making quotation marks somewhat actually redundant! However, I decided to do it because I liked the way it looked, and it afforded me a few more freedoms with my style.

Lydia Lightfoot · **09-21-2015, 02:54 PM**

(09-21-2015, 02:45 PM)FreelanceWizard Wrote:
(09-21-2015, 02:39 PM)Calliope Cloverbloom Wrote: -snip-Â I'm pretty sureÂ I'mÂ writing as if it's a novel -snip-

No, you're not writing a novel. You're doing collaborative storytelling in an electronic environment. Please do not assume that because I happen to know about computers that I can't RP, that I RP thinking that things are programming, and so forth. Seriously, where the hell did that come from? Where have I ever said anything like that?

Like I said, it's a stylistic difference. If you want to dismiss a wide spectrum of RPers on a microscopic difference that is, I might note, fairly new (quotation marks in /say are in vogue nowadays, but they haven't been historically in MMOs and the MU* world), be my guest. However, to equate it with leet speak is disingenuous and patently unfair.

I left part of my quote in the above larger quote for the sake of using red to point out that I did not in fact say I "am" writing a novel.Â

Also, I seem to have misunderstood your comment of "You're actually doing text generation that's rather more like a script, and they don't use quotation marks in scripts." as meaning computer scripts, when upon reflection given your confusion you must have meant screenplay scripts. I apologize for that misunderstanding.

In this case, though, in as much as roleplaying can be equated to a written form of improv acting, I think it's fair to point out that what you're suggesting is to compare the presentation of the production (e.g. the play or show that the script is meant for) to the preparation for the production. Spinning that back to the fact that this is text and not voice/video, I'm sure we can agree that J.K. Rowling probably has computer files in which she wrote up dialogue for the characters in her books - preparation - but when the time came for actual presentation, the book you buy in the store has quotations around all of the dialogue.

Kilid/Torhe · **09-21-2015, 03:15 PM**

Wellp, I voted, but I'll weigh in, too.

I'm going to take a risk with a sizeable statement here...

I've never seen people use " " to denote IC chatter in an MMO before. (Or if I have, never on a large enough scale to take note of it). Â "NOOB!" I hear you cry! "You've not been RPing long then, nub!" I hear others cry, but then... I've been doing this for the best part of 15 years now, since the days of Ragnarok Online, Everquest and Neverwinter Nights.

RPers in those games, and many onwards, have historically tended to assume that what happens in /s or /say is in-character (Helped somewhat by having dedicated roleplay servers, but even with the lack of such? Â It's often quite simple to determine who's IC and who's not. Â Running around with their levelling subligar all up in your face, rabbit-hopping all around, or spamming actions etc). Â If it's out-of-character, it is/was denoted by (( )).

What's happened in /em, /e, etc. tended to be heavily leaning towards the action or emote, and any chatter within said emote is then, yes, marked with quotations for clarity but was generally kept to a minimum. Â (I'm guilty of chatting in the middle of an emote as much as anyone else, I'm sure.)

And it's something I'll continue to do, especially as FF allows me to clearly differentiate between emotes and chatter by colouring the two differently - it goes a long way towards scanning a busy scrolling, chatlog (Along with indents for time, too. That really helps clarify where one person finishes speaking and another begins!)

I can see the benefits of using quotations in /say to squeeze in emotes, of course. Â If you have a lot to say, for instance, and need to fit in gestures for emphasis, but then there's an issue with that... what if, in the course of your character delivering their spiel, with wild hand waving and crazy tap-dancing, someone's character would naturally want to interrupt? Â By breaking it down into clear /say and /em, it gives people time to read and respond appropriately. Â If they do interrupt, then end what you're typing with "-..." at whatever point you're at, and react accordingly.

Just makes the roleplay a little more interactive, I think.

This could probably have been worded in a more structured, cohesive manner, but... eh. Â Typed as the thoughts came.

FreelanceWizard · **09-21-2015, 03:30 PM**

(09-21-2015, 02:54 PM)Calliope Cloverbloom Wrote: I left part of my quote in the above larger quote for the sake of using red to point out that I did not in fact say I "am" writing a novel.Â

Fair enough, though am I correct that the larger point that you follow the conventions of that medium is accurate?

(09-21-2015, 02:54 PM)Calliope Cloverbloom Wrote: In this case, though, in as much as roleplaying can be equated to a written form of improv acting, I think it's fair to point out that what you're suggesting is to compare the presentation of the production (e.g. the play or show that the script is meant for) to the preparation for the production. Spinning that back to the fact that this is text and not voice/video, I'm sure we can agree that J.K. Rowling probably has computer files in which she wrote up dialogue for the characters in her books - preparation - but when the time came for actual presentation, the book you buy in the store has quotations around all of the dialogue.

If you were to record and transcribe the improv production, though, you'd get something that follows its own conventions -- a transcription. Smile

Transcriptions don't usually typically quotation marks either.

Is online RP more like a screenplay, a play, a novel, or a transcription? Which is the right convention to use? I think this thread is evidence that one hasn't been decided yet. My larger point is that I feel it's awfully harsh to judge on this particular stylistic issue that seems to depend to some extent on where and when you started RPing and what the people around you tend to use. Among people I RP with regularly, quotation marks in say are very, very rare, and the future conditional nonexistent (to reference another thread on style Smile

). I suspect things are different in your corner of the RP community. I don't we can legitimately say which is right and which is wrong -- just which more people use in a particular circle.

Conversely, people who use "mute point" or "irregardless" in RP should be immediately blacklisted. Wink

Aya · **09-21-2015, 03:33 PM**

(09-21-2015, 03:15 PM)Kilid Wrote: If they do interrupt, then end what you're typing with "-..." at whatever point you're at, and react accordingly.

Just makes the roleplay a little more interactive, I think.

If someone wan to to interrupt mid-emote they usually can.Â Sometimes thingsÂ get modified or don't quite go as the poster originally intended.Â Just because it was posted doesn't mean it is set is stone ^^

Anyway, this seems more like an argument in favor of short posts rather than being strictly related to mixing dialogue with description.

Paradox · **09-22-2015, 04:39 AM**

I use quotations in /say simply because when my character is speaking, it just seems proper to use quotation marks. It's how dialogue is presented in books, and it's also how I've always played. The environment I came from was chat rooms from back in the 90's, and while we had location pulldowns in our rooms, there was no /em or anything like that. Mind you, some people put their actions in italics and their speaking in normal text, but I always did quotations over speech. Mostly because all my posts were italicized. Yeah, I was that dick that made you squint to read my posts. xD But more or less, putting quotations in /say is just a reflex action to me because my character is speaking, therefore it seems like the correct thing to do. Just my two gil.

Spethah · **09-22-2015, 04:44 AM**

I use quotation marks in say because there are times that I write something extra as an action and I'm too lazy to stop a sentence and then do a /emote after. For example:

Auriaune Rondelet: "I do believe you have the wrong person. The person you'd want for the complaints department would be..." She jerks a thumb at a random guard, most definitely the most lanky and likely to be easily beaten up, "Him."

It splits what's said and what the action is nicely. It's also a habit from RPing on SMT:I where /emote didn't exist waaaaaaay back.

Blue · **09-22-2015, 05:05 AM**

I don't use quotation marks.

I probably would use them if I was doing an /em, but I don't (99.9% of my RP is in LS channel, can't /em there), but in /say or /l? Nah. I simply type t in, much like NPCs. If I have to add an action in /say or /l, I simply put *..* on it.

Blue: Hello. *Turns to look at the new person.*

It definitely is not an error to not use quotation marks, because the NPCs do not (and I'm not talking about the balloons. If you set your chatlog to show NPC dialogue in it, you will see no quotation marks.

Perhaps it's because of my RP group interacting with NPCs on a daily basis, but we try to stick to what they do in terms of text usage.

Masaki Moui · **09-22-2015, 05:49 AM**

Primarily I use them in /say in order to show I'm in character whereas if I'm talking to some players who don't RP (or aren't in character at that moment), I won't use the quotes.

I also use them just because it feels right, and since I'd use them in /emote if I mixed an action with some dialog, so then it feels consistent to continue to use them in /say. There are times when I'm right in the midst of a /say line and know I could finish it with some kind of action or descriptive and so having the end quote dropped and a line added makes my life easier, rather than indicating, hey wait a sec, with some + sign or something, to indicate more is coming except I have to put it in /emote first.

I almost always ignore the way the chat or emote interface is prefaced and read the text as if I'm reading a novel, meaning, I will just mentally tend to skip over Name: or <<Name>> etc. and only use those tags to keep mental tally of who just spoke or emoted.

So I format it like a novel no matter whether that's coming out through /emote or /say. If I format it like a novel, it seems to me like the most natural and easy way to read something since novel format is so universal in life already.

Moonlit · **09-22-2015, 05:59 AM**

I use "" in say. For those saying they haven't seen it in other MMOs: it is actually fairly common in both WoW and heavily in GW2. I can't speak for others but I've seen it done in both of those.Â

For me, it's a stylistic preference. Some people do, some people don't, there's no right or wrong there. I like it because I write with the idea that I'm doing collaborative story writing. I like more stories / novels to have usage of quotations.Â

I also strictly only use /em for actions. I'll never put dialog in it. That, too, is just stylistic preference. xDÂ

Rosamund · **09-22-2015, 06:25 AM**

(09-22-2015, 05:59 AM)Moonlit Wrote: For those saying they haven't seen it in other MMOs: it is actually fairly common in both WoW and heavily in GW2. I can't speak for others but I've seen it done in both of those.

Must depend on the realm you're on then because I've played WoW for 9 years and have never seen it there. But, as I said before, it doesn't bother me either way. Use quotes or don't use quotes; the substance of the RP is far more important to me than what amounts to a stylistic preference.

Takia · **09-22-2015, 06:32 AM**

I do use " " mostly, but if the person I am RPing with doesn't, I don't.
It's like long or short emotes. If they are one-liners, I adapt. If they write a fricking novel, I try my best to do on my darn self!

I would never bash someone for RPing the way they want to RP, I might prefer the longer emotes, where I feel like I can really express my character. But if they don't, I just mimic.
Mostly without knowing it, to be honest. It just happens!

And I have been making spelling and grammar mistakes, a lot. Since English is not my first language, but it's fluent enough. But no one has ever corrected me.

So in short, I just adapt. I do not mind whatever other people prefer.

Poll: Do you use " " around your spoken text in /say? You do not have permission to vote in this poll.
Yes	66.90%	97	66.90%
No	16.55%	24	16.55%
A mix of both	15.86%	23	15.86%
Other	0.69%	1	0.69%
Total		145 vote(s)	100%

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Quotation marks in /Say

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes