RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes

Dis · **11-18-2015, 10:47 PM**

Temmi Wrote:-snip-

I respect the right for people to not role-play with others based on the type of character they play. It's like those who avoid people who play up to the racist stereotype of specific types of characters. People are entitled to these types of reactions, to being selective about what they want to play with and I'm not saying they aren't.

What I am saying is that you shouldn't write someone off 100% because of either a singular character, or a singular idea that they express.Â

If I approached someone six to nine months ago, and they had said, 'No, I don't play with world-hopping characters, and I think playing one of those characters is lazy or void of creativity', that's absolutely unnecessary.Â But if someone said it the way you just did, that it didn't fit with their world view and how they played?Â

That's one-hundred percent alright.Â I might have been a little disappointed you weren't willing to interact with my main, but it's easy to understand that preference.Â I could have said 'Hey, I have other characters who fit with the lore, we could maybe RP with xyz lore-abiding character and yours?'.Â

That's the kind of reaction you hope for from the community.Â If you get shot down in one avenue, maybe you can try another route.Â

But instead, you (collective here, not specific) get reactions like, 'Your idea is bad, why would you want to do this, this makes you a horrible RPer, you just want to be a special snowflake.'Â And that's not right to do to another creative writer.Â Tearing into someone for the ideas they put forth is when it hits the line that it isn't okay.Â Disagreeing with someone is fine.Â Being derogatory or slanderous toward them isn't.

Momo · **11-18-2015, 10:57 PM**

::Sigh::

I truly think this whole thread is in response at least partially to a thread which many here posted in, about the subject that has been mentioned already twice here. Â People can have opinions, people can have standards, people can express those in ways you like, or don't like, but it isn't any different to just assume that person is a jerkface and is never anything other than a jerkface because of a single thread in which they reply, or because of a single discussion of which they were a part. Â That isn't any different than what is being said from the other side of this whole thing. Â It is also a little harsh when it is an opinion thread, where the question asks for opinions, which will be shared, and people are free to share on a discussion forum, whether you like that opinion or not.

There are people who come in just to be a jerkface, and that is clear when you look through their post history, they will literally just come in and bash, or curse, or in general be contrary to things without any reason other than to simply be contrary, but there are also people who love their RP, and their community, invest good amounts of time into it, and are protective of the standard of good quality RP across the board. Â We will always be around, and I think in the long run people like that aren't as bad as they are made out to be. Â We also have enough sense to see, even if we think an idea is bad, vehemently or otherwise, that the person who posed the question is not just downright a crap person, whether we bring up examples of the past or not.

For example:

Warren (could be any Warren, you don't know!) and I, our very first interaction from what I can remember, was a heated discussion with very different opinions. Â We had it out in every sense of the word there. Â In my head, did I plot all kinds of evil? Â Sure, in the heat of the moment, I was all out cray-cray with evil plans, I am a Lalafell at heart, it is just how we are, did I actually go out and partake in my evil plans until sated? Â No. Â Did I forever relegate Warren into oblivion as a possible RP partner? Â Nah. Â What I did was avoid him for a bit while I let myself cool down, talk (only to my close personal friends about my evil plans, but these are also people who have fun listening, while acknowledging I would never actually go through with anything, and that it was harmless venting of emotions) it out with others, and eventually I just didn't care anymore. Â Did my opinion change on the subject we discussed? Â No, it has never changed, and the subject was Lalafell rights, a subject I give no ground on as I genuinely love the race and never entertain any other race except on alts and only for short periods of time as a basic stranger. Â Later, Warren and I found some common ground, we agree on some things, we haven't RPed with one another, but assuming it wouldn't be battle RP (which I rarely if ever engage in aside from PvE), that we would work out just fine.

The bottom line is, we are opinionated, and we are passionate, we give our opinions when asked, and we do so vehemently, but from either side of an argument, you don't let that cloud your mind forever, you observe for a bit of time, whether in person or from afar, and come to a conclusion on how you feel about them, and go from there as far as sharing your creativity with them. Â Don't be out to purposely shut someone out, but don't lose your opinion, don't give ground on what you honestly think, but don't don't let others make your one opinion into some cloud or shadow which covers the whole Forum with evil or some of other thing, we have new threads, we have different opinions, we agree and disagree, it is ever better to strive to be more than one-dimensional and to see others as such, but it doesn't make what we feel any different individually.

Warren Castille · **11-18-2015, 11:06 PM**

Warren sounds like a dick.

For as much as I bang my drum about my expectations or philosophies on roleplaying, I don't think I've ever actually turned anyone down or away from RP with me. I've got plenty of opinions on plenty of subjects, but even I realize writing people off without seeing what they can do is dumb.

I mean, I might not like okra, but if someone cooks it and asks me to try it, I'll give it a go. Even if its just to confirm I'm still not a fan of okra.

Caspar · **11-18-2015, 11:18 PM**

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the impression I got from OP was three arguments:
1. People play what they like and in their own personal style.
2. It's unfair to aggressively pass judgement on others based on assumptions and confirmation bias.
3. People use those opinions to force others to follow a consensus, and that ruins the diversity of RP.

In no way does this argue anywhere you shouldn't have opinions on other people's RP, or have preferences about what RP you enjoy. It seems to me more about the way people with strong opinions about RP, often based off subjective and flimsy reasoning, try to use aggressive criticism as a method of hammering in nails that stick out as a method of creating some sort of false consensus about what is appropriate RP and what is [Insert spurious judgement buzzword here]. The idea seems to be less to just blindly accept whatever RP comes your way without regard for your own tastes and convenience (The OP even acknowledges everyone is busy and doesn't have time to RP with random strangers always.) and to instead avoid aggressively pushing your judgement, so that RP styles can diversify rather than bottleneck. Having an open mind is not the same as liking everything. That would be impossible for even the most generous of us.

I think there's plenty of conversation that goes on here and outside of the forum that shows the judgement is often malicious, and only appears outwardly to be an attempt to help "wayward" RPers who deviate from the norm. Usually that sort of activity is defended as trying to improve the community. Besides, RPC isn't the entirety of the RP community, and any consensus we attempt to establish for the good of community standards is flimsy at best.

I think it's fine to be honest in chardev threads about the fact that the RPC has plenty of pedants and purists who will cast scorn upon the special, but a lot of times those threads invite peoples' airy opinions about "in my super elite twenty years of RP experience, x type of character always means y type of player." Personally, were I the other player, I'd probably stop reading right there, because it serves absolutely no purpose other than to tell the prospective RPer what kind of people they're facing. If you are "y kind of player," you're not going to want to engage with the forumite who is suspicious of you. If you aren't, nothing you say is going to convince that forumite you are an exception to their sagely assumptions.

It's why my favorite posts in those threads tend to ask what purpose the "aberrant" character trait serves in the player's RP, and if an alternative might not serve the same purpose. It doesn't invoke subjective standards; it just focuses on getting the player what they want in a way that doesn't isolate them from others.

Generally it's sort of what I mean when I say RPers want to make others NPCs in their own story. Some just really want others to play in a way that protects their verisimilitude, and try to enforce it. There's always the horror story of the overpowered PC who steals the scene and eats the scenery while everyone else is ignored. But I think far more common are people who badly want the setting to be exactly as they imagine it, and see anyone who isn't building the same structure as a crack or flaw in it rather than another person's work. Accepting those other players and recognizing they're not innately bad seems to be the gist of having an open mind, not simply playing with all of them regardless of your misgivings.

Zhavi · **11-19-2015, 02:42 AM**

(11-18-2015, 10:29 PM)Valeera Wrote:
(11-18-2015, 09:20 PM)Zhavi Wrote: If you're saying don't be an asshole unnecessarily (sometimes the raw, brutal truth is a good thing), then I agree.

There is no situation where being an asshole is necessary. Truth can be delivered, even in a blunt and straight forward fashion, without being an asshole. That truth is also much more effectively delivered when done so with tact.

The only reason anyone has for ever being an asshole to someone else is because of the enjoyment they get from it. By all means, be an asshole as it pleases you, but don't pretend you're doing anyone a favor.

Disagree. I know people with behavior I see as assholish that I welcome from them to me, because of how they mean it and how I take it. They're rough, but it has lead to immense improvement in my writing.

Dis · **11-19-2015, 03:13 AM**

(11-19-2015, 02:42 AM)Zhavi Wrote:
(11-18-2015, 10:29 PM)V Wrote:
(11-18-2015, 09:20 PM)Zhavi Wrote: If you're saying don't be an asshole unnecessarily (sometimes the raw, brutal truth is a good thing), then I agree.

There is no situation where being an asshole is necessary. Truth can be delivered, even in a blunt and straight forward fashion, without being an asshole. That truth is also much more effectively delivered when done so with tact.

The only reason anyone has for ever being an asshole to someone else is because of the enjoyment they get from it. By all means, be an asshole as it pleases you, but don't pretend you're doing anyone a favor.
Disagree. Â I know people with behavior I see as assholish that I welcome from them to me, because of how they mean it and how I take it. Â They're rough, but it has lead to immense improvement in my writing.

It's fantastic that you have people that you're willing to let be assholes to you.Â Everyone else isn't you, and you shouldn't expect them to deal well if you or someone else come at someone with a judgmental, confrontational, disparaging or demeaning attitude involving their writing or character concepts.Â

It's a ridiculous expectation of behavior that just because you're alright with it, it means that others will be as well.Â That's like saying you have one friend who is fine with you walking up to them and going 'Hey, Bitch, how ya been?'.Â Not every friend is going to be okay with that form of address directed at them.Â

Similarly, like it was stated earlier, respect is a two way street and it's easy to be respectful rather than going 'Rawr, your writing sucks and you should feel bad and only play in this way that I say is okay!'.Â Those 'assholes' could have gone at you in literally any other way, and it's likely you still would have gotten the message.Â And if you wouldn't have, that's still obstinate behavior on your part, and not an excuse for them to be an asshole to you, or for you or them to be an asshole to others.

So no, there is never a legitimate reason for being an asshole to someone.Â Just excuses people give to explain away themselves or others behaving that way.

Nebbs · **11-19-2015, 03:59 AM**

I see players that are sensitive to others opinion of them and players sensitive to their opinion of others.
A little more tolerance and openness goes a long way for others but also for your own levels of stress.

I accept people don't agree but I can't accept judging others for having differances, especially in something as unreal as RP. That tends to be what puts me off others the most.

Cailean Lockwood · **11-19-2015, 04:14 AM**

I judge everyone.

BEWARE!

But nah, I live by "People can RP whatever they want." and "Don't be a dick!".

Solenne · **11-19-2015, 05:25 AM**

(11-19-2015, 03:13 AM)Glioca Sargonnai Wrote:
(11-19-2015, 02:42 AM)Zhavi Wrote:
(11-18-2015, 10:29 PM)V Wrote:
(11-18-2015, 09:20 PM)Zhavi Wrote: If you're saying don't be an asshole unnecessarily (sometimes the raw, brutal truth is a good thing), then I agree.

There is no situation where being an asshole is necessary. Truth can be delivered, even in a blunt and straight forward fashion, without being an asshole. That truth is also much more effectively delivered when done so with tact.

The only reason anyone has for ever being an asshole to someone else is because of the enjoyment they get from it. By all means, be an asshole as it pleases you, but don't pretend you're doing anyone a favor.
Disagree. Â I know people with behavior I see as assholish that I welcome from them to me, because of how they mean it and how I take it. Â They're rough, but it has lead to immense improvement in my writing.

It's fantastic that you have people that you're willing to let be assholes to you.Â Everyone else isn't you, and you shouldn't expect them to deal well if you or someone else come at someone with a judgmental, confrontational, disparaging or demeaning attitude involving their writing or character concepts.Â

It's a ridiculous expectation of behavior that just because you're alright with it, it means that others will be as well.Â That's like saying you have one friend who is fine with you walking up to them and going 'Hey, Bitch, how ya been?'.Â Not every friend is going to be okay with that form of address directed at them.Â

Similarly, like it was stated earlier, respect is a two way street and it's easy to be respectful rather than going 'Rawr, your writing sucks and you should feel bad and only play in this way that I say is okay!'.Â Those 'assholes' could have gone at you in literally any other way, and it's likely you still would have gotten the message.Â And if you wouldn't have, that's still obstinate behavior on your part, and not an excuse for them to be an asshole to you, or for you or them to be an asshole to others.

So no, there is never a legitimate reason for being an asshole to someone.Â Just excuses people give to explain away themselves or others behaving that way.

THIS. Gentle critique is one thing, but there's never an excuse for being impolite. Some people can brush off rudeness and that's fantastic for them. For others, it can ruin their day (or week). I fall into the thin skin category myself. I welcome advice, but I crumple like paper when someone is a total asshole to me. It doesn't cost anything to be nice, even when pointing out someone's mistakes or critiquing their ideas.

Eses Fafa · **11-19-2015, 05:28 AM**

Personally, I pride myself on my cynicism, nor am I one to give people chances based on various factors.

If you're:
-Scantily clad and approach me IC without being attached to someone I know or give prior warning, I will try to bail from that ASAP.
-If you have abysmal grammar, I'll humour, then bail if you're not affiliated with my lot. Otherwise, I'd be inclined to instruct for the betterment of the FC in general.
-If something seems off with the lore, I'd need to discuss if they happened to word their explanation poorly or dissuade them from that path..and bail if the second occurs.
-If your character is unnecessarily stand-offish, hostile and snarky, then poor past experience tells me you're probably doing that because you can't do that IRL without someone crashing your teeth in. This point is often met with extreme resistance and hatred towards me for mixing IC and OOC, but thems my peanuts, and I like 'em salty. Either way, I bail.
-If someone I trust happens to talk smack to me behind a stranger's back that pertains to their reputation such as..godmoding, ERP obsession, vindictive nature or anything else that gives me reason to dislike them, I will believe this rumour-spreader and take their advice in avoiding this stranger without giving them the chance to explain. I just BAIL.

These are the reasons, along with many others why I aim to get my characters out of RP hubs. Because 90% of people I meet in them will wind up in these areas. It means I don't have to be a bully, to ostracise. I find a group that can function independently with its own story without risking the involvement of those that can't be trusted with the importance of character development.

If you people want quality in your RP, you're best off finding a group you can trust with your character and their story's involvement with others, progressively building the group based on the agreed standards everyone's laid down. If your character is a loner, that doesn't stop you from joining an IC FC OOC with the intent of organised RP.

Sorry OP, but anyone worth their salt has already tried keeping an open mind and realised the absolute pointlessness in the endeavour. This might be bringing us back to our school days with cliques, bullying and ostracisation, but they were in place for reasons. So we didn't have to talk to people we don't like.
We get along more with people who HATE the same things we do.

Like bad RPers!

Vote Eses for Prime Minister of Balmung.

V'aleera · **11-19-2015, 05:47 AM**

(11-19-2015, 05:28 AM)Eses Fafa Wrote: This might be bringing us back to our school days with cliques, bullying and ostracisation, but they were in place for reasons.

I'd caution against falling back on the wizened ways of people whose brains aren't even halfway done developing yet.

Eses Fafa · **11-19-2015, 06:11 AM**

(11-19-2015, 05:47 AM)V Wrote:
(11-19-2015, 05:28 AM)Eses Fafa Wrote: This might be bringing us back to our school days with cliques, bullying and ostracisation, but they were in place for reasons.

I'd caution against falling back on the wizened ways of people whose brains aren't even halfway done developing yet.

Honestly, we never stopped doing this. We had less mature reasons to push people away at the time, but we found new ones. Granted, we might not be doing this to climb up social ranks, but will see ourselves in a higher position if something falls below our perception of good standards. It could be bullying, but that's what happens when groups of people get together in a social environment because the idea of everyone getting along and understanding one another requires us all to have the same mindset. I prefer the lesser of two evils.

Yssen · **11-19-2015, 06:34 AM**

Keeping an open mind is always a good thing. It has always been disappointing to me that people in the community haven't been. There has been, and continues to be, a fair amount of vitriol thrown a people when they are just posting up questions or asking for input. The line between critique and attack has already been covered. While everyone should reflect on that difference, I do not intend to go into a subject already well covered by others.
One of the things that has bugged me for a while is the venom thrown at supposedly lore breaking concepts by people, particularly without keeping an open mind to what the game lore might reveal in the future. By way of example, think of every insult thrown at someone who was trying to RP a DRG. Every one of those threads got just plain vicious, most of them eventually got shut down by the mods because they got to heated. We have sense gotten a ton of lore that has contradicted every single thing people previously assumed about DRGs. We watched as people were called stupid, lore breaking, and bad RPers by degrees that were all eventually contradicted with Heavensward. It was almost like people took a position, only to see that position contradicted as more stuff came out. Everything from "there is only one DRG," to "there are a bunch but they can't all jump and such," to "X race can't be a DRG." Since Heavensward launch, most of these assumptions have been proven incorrect. That will happen. It is bound to happen by the nature of how the lore is given out. No harm, foul, or shame in that.

What we have not seen is people admitting when they were wrong. To be clear, I am not talking about just lore here. I am talking about throwing out insults and venom at other people, and then being shown that one was wrong in the assumption that supposedly justified those insults. I will grant that I do not see everything, and it is more than possible that people apologized for that privately. I mean with some of the stuff said in those threads, I hope they apologized just for the stuff that got flung. DRGs are far from the only hot button topic like this, and there is the thing that we should all try remember. Before we toss out attacks, insults, and "YER DOING IT WRONGS!" over our particular interpretations of the lore we have to work with, we need to remember we could be 100% wrong in our assumptions. That is all any of us have to go off of, assumption and best possible guess. These are not good enough reasons to hurl intolerant, toxic mess at each other (not that I personally think there is any good reason for that at all). They are also the very best reasons to keep an open mind. How many of us would saddle up to the table to eat generous portions of crow if the game's lore peeps told us "Yup there absolutely can be multiple WHMs. That other method of gaining access to Succor we teased about earlier? Here are the details on that." This is true of pretty much every piece of lore that has been used as justification to pass judgement on someone else's RP.Â

We are passionate about stuff, cool beans. On its face, that is completely fine. Debate and even argument are completely fine. Jumping on the bandwagon at people, tossing out insults and attacks? That stuff is toxic. It makes us all toxic and salty, and that just bleeds out into the community at large. The next time you want to pass judgement or attack someone here for having and idea, just think back to the last time the game or the lore guys made you eat crow. Take a second and think about the other places they absolutely could make you do that again. Keep an open mind for no other reason than because you could dig in your heels, draw your line in the sand, and stand by your assumption only to served nummy nummy crow.

My two cents for now. Yar.

No Longer Exists · **11-19-2015, 09:25 AM**

*Snooze bubble pops*

Did you know that I judged this post as soon as I finished reading it?

The OP statement is nothing new, we've all seen it before on many a forum and it still surprises me how many people sound off on a redundancy check. Some of you will look at my first sentence there and immediately judge the rest of this post. I'd be willing to bet most of you will, because most of you have had interactions with me and I'm not the most pleasant person. I AM opinionated and I speak openly. Some will invariably look at the ole Black Hat and think "Oh great, here we go...."

I'm cool with that. It's the way of things and that's really the only advice one can give on a subject like this. Get over it. It sounds rude, I know. There's no clear outcome to a discussion like this, because it's personal preference. It's not a law, it's not a scientific fact of the universe. It's opinion and opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and they all stink except mine. Laugh

Unless the human race suddenly becomes a hive mind collective, we will never think the same thing at once.

P.S.: I say it all the time: This is not a community. We are not a community. We do not occupy the same space, because the game world is not a space. It's a pass time activity for entertainment. We DO have a characteristic in common and that's roleplaying. HOWEVER, definition 2 of the word "Community" states "A feeling of fellowship with others as a result of sharing common attitudes, interests, and goals." RPers do not do this. RPers are self-serving. If we were a community, we would have a commonality that involves open inclusion, where everyone worked toward the betterment of the entire group. Sadly, this is not the case. Occasionally, a few glomp together based on commonality and they become an FC which IS a community. But the RPC is a forum, a place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged. The expectation of inclusion and acceptance in a forum is unfortunately absurd.

-Hatter

*Snooze bubble*

Paradox · **11-19-2015, 04:54 PM**

Quote:-Scantily clad and approach me IC without being attached to someone I know or give prior warning, I will try to bail from that ASAP.

So basically people aren't allowed to decorate their characters scantily clad regardless of their reasons, or they're bad if they do it if they're not in your circle. Gotcha. If it was in Coerthas maybe, but Thanalan be hot.

Quote:-If your character is unnecessarily stand-offish, hostile and snarky, then poor past experience tells me you're probably doing that because you can't do that IRL without someone crashing your teeth in.

Fite me bro, lololol. Nice broad assumption. 'unnecessarily' is an opinion. And some people play more harsh characters. And maybe they have good reason to. But hey, why not judge them without knowing their reasons? That's cool. Just as an aside, there have been plenty in literature and published works who were harsh or hostile but grew into more. I'm noticing poor past experience seems to be a bad baseline excuse to refuse to RP with people these days. But hey, I guess all our hostile characters are just projecting amirite?

Quote:If someone I trust happens to talk smack to me behind a stranger's back that pertains to their reputation such as..godmoding, ERP obsession, vindictive nature or anything else that gives me reason to dislike them, I will believe this rumour-spreader and take their advice in avoiding this stranger without giving them the chance to explain. I just BAIL.

So basically you're saying the person you trust can't develop a grudge and shit talk someone, or lie, that they're Mary Poppins and have never been dishonest in their life about someone that rustled their jimmies, and in your follower mentality, you'd believe everything they say without getting the other person's side of the story. Good to know. I mean, since we're assuming here.

Quote:Sorry OP, but anyone worth their salt has already tried keeping an open mind and realised the absolute pointlessness in the endeavour. This might be bringing us back to our school days with cliques, bullying and ostracisation, but they were in place for reasons. So we didn't have to talk to people we don't like.

You basically lost it all with me here when you included bullying as being in place 'for a reason'. I'm sorry, no. Humans form cliques naturally, yes. Stay in your groups, good on you. However, there is never a reason to bully someone, and the moment you said that, you basically acknowledged that it's just fine to make someone feel like shit if you don't like what they're doing or because you're bigger than they are, or you're someone who uses your backup to win fights you can't win yourself. If you think the Social Darwinism mentality of our preteen to teen years is a baseline by which to live our adult lives, including our RP and how we judge others and their RP, well. I honestly have nothing more to say. There's no words. Bad past experiences have been on my plate for many years, but I keep trucking. What you're talking about isn't cynicism, it's borderline RP xenophobia. But hey, it's your right, so I'll keep an open mind about that. I do feel bad that your past experiences have been so bad you think bullying and following the crowd and hearing only one half of something, as well as generalizing based on character appearance and attitude about the person behind it is the acceptable norm and that you subscribe to it. But hey.

/sips tea/ But that's none of my business.

« Next Oldest \| Next Newest »
Pages (4): « Previous 1 2 3 4 Next »

Why You Should Keep an Open Mind and Not Judge Other Roleplayers in Most Cases

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes