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SessionZero · **09-24-2015, 06:05 PM**

(09-24-2015, 05:55 PM)Blue Wrote: Right, and we have seen that in how they designed wedding bangles. SE allowed us to trade bangles with the idea that a player could buy a bangle and use it to surprise and propose the partner, and nothing more. And what came from that? People sell bangles, because the trading mechanic allows it. It's basically legal RMTing, as well as the rare dyes.

SE designed both housing and those items with innocent expectations, but it didn't go as they expected. And the fault again is that demand is higher than the offer, because housing servers are nowhere enough to meet the demand, and thus people take advantage of it by making others pay.

It may take some effort to find the will to relinquish a house for free, or the will to not own more than one plot on your account, but it can be done. I for one, not only don't sell my plot, bangles, dyes, nor own more than one house on my account. I even flat out boicot personal housing by sticking just to our FC house (FC houses are much better anyway, with the rooms they are much bigger than any personal house will ever be, especially if you take the effort to grind alts to make them build more rooms in it!). All it takes is a bit of good heart.

I completely agree that it doesn't take much effort to play fair, and I share your wish that less people would be dirtbags about it. I'm just saying, if SE truly believed their players wouldn't take advantage of every loophole they could find, that's frankly astonishing.Â

When the creator of Ultima Online visited his own creation to meet with his game's players, the first thing they tried to do was kill the shit out of him, just to see if they could. There's a precedent for MMO players being impossibly evil, and there has been for years.

Blue · **09-24-2015, 06:13 PM**

(09-24-2015, 06:05 PM)SessionZero Wrote:
(09-24-2015, 05:55 PM)Blue Wrote: Right, and we have seen that in how they designed wedding bangles. SE allowed us to trade bangles with the idea that a player could buy a bangle and use it to surprise and propose the partner, and nothing more. And what came from that? People sell bangles, because the trading mechanic allows it. It's basically legal RMTing, as well as the rare dyes.

SE designed both housing and those items with innocent expectations, but it didn't go as they expected. And the fault again is that demand is higher than the offer, because housing servers are nowhere enough to meet the demand, and thus people take advantage of it by making others pay.

It may take some effort to find the will to relinquish a house for free, or the will to not own more than one plot on your account, but it can be done. I for one, not only don't sell my plot, bangles, dyes, nor own more than one house on my account. I even flat out boicot personal housing by sticking just to our FC house (FC houses are much better anyway, with the rooms they are much bigger than any personal house will ever be, especially if you take the effort to grind alts to make them build more rooms in it!). All it takes is a bit of good heart.

I completely agree that it doesn't take much effort to play fair, and I share your wish that less people would be dirtbags about it. I'm just saying, if SE truly believed their players wouldn't take advantage of every loophole they could find, that's frankly astonishing.Â

When the creator of Ultima Online visited his own creation to meet with his game's players, the first thing they tried to do was kill the shit out of him, just to see if they could. There's a precedent for MMO players being impossibly evil, and there has been for years.

Right, I remember that story. The sad thing is that I believe most of these people are not even jerks, but do it because others do it.

It's like the train of thought of "Why bother with recycling trash? For every plastic bottle I carefully store in a recycle bin, 5 other people will not do it." And it's sadly a very common mentality.

To me, other people being dirtbags is not a good excuse to be a dirtbag myself. I thank how I was raised for being like this, and I honestly wish more people had the same teachings I've had on the matter of altruism and sharing.

Now to sit and wait to see how many are going to exploit "Housing Sharing" to put their houses for rent in 3.1 or whenever that will be implemented. I expect to see a lot of shit like "Pay me 50k a month and I'll keep you in the list of people who can use my house."

Eses Fafa · **09-24-2015, 06:55 PM**

I'm not entirely sure that GM knew what he was talking about to be honest. I'm pretty familiar with being in customer service on the phone and being ABSOLUTELY clueless, so sometimes the best option for staff members is to fall on the script and become a broken record. He's a GM, but I doubt he actually knew all of the terms and conditions and assumed player-based trading that didn't involve the UI was illegal.
It's quite unlikely you'll be caught unless personally reported, but this is what SE brought upon themselves by failing to meet player demand.
The devs can't POSSIBLY believe themselves to be in the right in this situation for something that's their fault and for all we know, that GM was perhaps even talking out of his arse. Methinks I'll give the current T+C a check and bring an update.

Eses Fafa · **09-24-2015, 07:14 PM**

Aaand I'm back.

Nope.

Didn't know jack.
I've checked the Prohibited Actions section and the User agreement, but this is all from 2013 before housing was a thing. From what I've seen, they like to emphasise that RMT is a no-no, but using gil as the sole mediator in a trade of virtual items is not against the rules. Chock that one up to human error, I'm afraid.

Kage · **12-28-2015, 09:59 AM**

After the whole debacle with RareX trolling people...

Users on reddit have been reporting being warned for THE TROLL PFs and actual individual WTS housing/plots.

Thread on the official forums Â still on-going with no Head GM in sight but this looks pretty definitive.

[Image: tumblr_o02mgjn1GU1qhf2lso1_1280.jpg]

[Image: tumblr_o02mgjn1GU1qhf2lso1_1280.jpg]

[Image: tumblr_o02mgjn1GU1qhf2lso2_1280.jpg]

[Image: tumblr_o02mgjn1GU1qhf2lso3_1280.jpg]

But also note that GMs are inconsistent
[Image: cafea03582bc6b554a7a771be2dfaea6.png]

[Image: 70c7ba64793b43508d800642a860809a.png]

Seye Qhesu · **12-28-2015, 12:53 PM**

First gm says they don't condone it. Others saying it isn't breaking the tos.

MAKE UP YOUR MINDS!!!!!Â

â–¡:<

Kage · **12-28-2015, 01:22 PM**

I was thinking about it more closely. The two images about GMs saying it is fine are from an EU poster.

I was told by a friend I used to PVE with a lot, from the UK or so. He wanted to get an account from his friend who stopped playing or had had issues with. The account had his friend's name.

So from an NA view, no right?

But his name and his credit card was the one paying for the subscription the entire time and for the license etc.

He got that account 'back'

Leggerless · **12-28-2015, 01:26 PM**

It's kinda like parsers, this whole argument. Saying that using them can get you banned but people do it anyway. Especially with the "Please don't do it" attitude Square's heralding.

Another piece of proof I just found through 3 minutes of forum searching.

Kage · **12-28-2015, 01:40 PM**

(12-28-2015, 01:26 PM)Leggerless Wrote: It's kinda like parsers, this whole argument. Saying that using them can get you banned but people do it anyway. Especially with the "Please don't do it" attitude Square's heralding.

Another piece of proof I just found through 3 minutes of forum searching.

Yep I've been going through this since yesterday on reddit and on the official forums.

Right now I'm seeing NA GMs and NA support desk saying AND WARNING people not to do it. Reminder that the warning is applied -account wide-.

EU Support Desk is saying differently.

Kage · **12-28-2015, 04:35 PM**

Here's a fuckton of links I got.

I encouraged this user to make a thread after they posted on reddit with their screenshot of the NA support desk telling them that Sale of housing or land is a breach after I showed them that it's possible to use /echo to fake tells.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/...ng_debate/
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threa...on-housing.

EU GM team saying "nah not a breach"
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/...of_the_ua/

NA team saying yes
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/...in_pf_now/

[Image: z0VbuWm.png]

Pascaleret · **12-28-2015, 04:53 PM**

I'm under the impression that the troll PFs and house flippers(as in people who recently bought a house during the reclamation with the sole purpose of selling) are the reason GMs are suddenly cracking down on house selling. I don't know if that's true or not, just the feeling I'm getting from the whole mess.

Cassandra · **12-28-2015, 04:57 PM**

According to the official forums and I believe reddit, that initial screeny in the OP was doctored. GMs usually don't have their title in their name, as far as I know. That said, we're still getting a lot of confusion, but I can't see them actually banning anyone. People have sold houses in PF since it became a thing. Did Square just not notice until now?

Cassandra · **12-28-2015, 04:59 PM**

(12-28-2015, 04:53 PM)Hiroto Wrote: I'm under the impression that the troll PFs and house flippers(as in people who recently bought a house during the reclamation with the sole purpose of selling) are the reason GMs are suddenly cracking down on house selling. I don't know if that's true or not, just the feeling I'm getting from the whole mess.

I tend to agree. A lot of people flipped houses via their alts. If they made it so a house purchase was account wide, provided they were on the same server (all your alts could access it), this wouldn't have even been an issue. Honestly, Yoshi's team is far too trusting of people.

Kage · **12-28-2015, 05:02 PM**

(12-28-2015, 04:57 PM)Olivia Wrote: According to the official forums and I believe reddit, that initial screeny in the OP was doctored. GMs usually don't have their title in their name, as far as I know. That said, we're still getting a lot of confusion, but I can't see them actually banning anyone. People have sold houses in PF since it became a thing. Did Square just not notice until now?

Yes that was covered a few months ago.
http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread....#pid214211

Here is a long post I made about it here
http://exkage.tumblr.com/post/1360571464...a-citation

And also posting updates here and in this post
http://exkage.tumblr.com/post/1361114397...-reporting

Kellach Woods · **12-28-2015, 06:58 PM**

Square doesn't notice jack shit on anything. They require tickets and reports to actually investigate anything. Parsers themselves, unless they break the game on server-side, won't be noticed unless someone in that raid group sends in a ticket saying player was using unauthorized 3rd party tools.

The reason why they're investigating the fake PF bullshit is that it can easily lead to scamming the playerbase. Which is something they definitely don't want.

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