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Sin · **02-28-2016, 06:30 PM**

The reason that Nidstinien's skewer was not a killing blow seems simple to me.

Nidhogg intended to kill, but Estinien is resisting from within and steers the lance just an inch away from lethal in an act of defiance.

Also in 3.4, once we kill Nidhogg, Hraesvalgr will reveal the poorly foreshadowed twist.

"There must always be a Nidhogg, Warrior of Light."

Then Aymeric becomes the new Nidhogg and we go on to the new expansion.

LiadansWhisper · **02-28-2016, 07:08 PM**

(02-28-2016, 06:30 PM)Sin Wrote: The reason that Nidstinien's skewer was not a killing blow seems simple to me.

Nidhogg intended to kill, but Estinien is resisting from within and steers the lance just an inch away from lethal in an act of defiance.

Also in 3.4, once we kill Nidhogg, Hraesvalgr will reveal the poorly foreshadowed twist.

"There must always be a Nidhogg, Warrior of Light."

Then Aymeric becomes the new Nidhogg and we go on to the new expansion.

This is all I have to say to you, sir.

Kellach Woods · **03-01-2016, 07:46 AM**

(02-28-2016, 06:30 PM)Sin Wrote: Then Aymeric becomes the new Nidhogg and we go on to the new expansion.

cool we can then discover that another area of eorzea is inhabited by complete dicks and i must continue to ask myself "why are we saving these people again?"

Telluride · **03-01-2016, 10:58 AM**

(02-28-2016, 06:30 PM)Sin Wrote: Also in 3.4, once we kill Nidhogg, Hraesvalgr will reveal the poorly foreshadowed twist.

"There must always be a Nidhogg, Warrior of Light."

Then Aymeric becomes the new Nidhogg and we go on to the new expansion.

"Uh, no no, Hraesie. I'm pretty sure that Nidhogg still existing is pretty much because you're an overgrown emo lizard who enabled him. So, now that you have both your eyes back, go cry more... and what? What's that? Oh, that WAS your favorite daughter he skewered, wasn't it? Did you ever tell her the truth before she suffered, too... Oh, NOW you're mad, when it's one of YOUR kids getting punctured by Nidhogg. You aren't worthy of Shiva."

Kellach Woods · **03-01-2016, 07:28 PM**

if the garleans weren't the biggest dicks of all time.

I'd agree with their policy of nuking eorzea.

S'imba · **03-01-2016, 08:19 PM**

My theory...Nidhogg is a bigger asshole than he lets on. He's always hated mortals. His war goes way back before the dragonsong war. When Hrasvelger and the others made peace with the mortals it pissed him off to the point his siblings were traitors in his eyes. He manipulated events that led to the murder of his sister, used it to justify his war. Some patch down the road he'll end up throwing it in Hrasvelgr's face of how pathetic he was and inform him of the real trurh. Mostly cause I would rather him be a bigger player than it just being the generic ascians behind every bad thing that happens.

Then change the Nidhogg tt card to a card with all ones except a middle finger on one side.

Mavis · **03-07-2016, 07:06 AM**

So, I am quite hype after running the new lost city HM a few times. So many possibilities to flesh out a character utilizing succor without going through fifteen loops and making them aligned to good.
Maybe I should make a thread on that..

LiadansWhisper · **03-12-2016, 08:41 PM**

(03-07-2016, 07:06 AM)Mavis Wrote: So, I am quite hype after running the new lost city HM a few times. So many possibilities to flesh out a character utilizing succor without going through fifteen loops and making them aligned to good.
Maybe I should make a thread on that..

Just bear in mind that the abilities you see in Lost City HM are lost. So to utilize them, you'd probably have to re-discover them. The most likely way to do that would be for your character to survive Lost City...which is a pretty tall order.

Mavis · **03-12-2016, 08:49 PM**

(03-12-2016, 08:41 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: Just bear in mind that the abilities you see in Lost City HM are lost. Â So to utilize them, you'd probably have to re-discover them. The most likely way to do that would be for your character to survive Lost City...which is a pretty tall order.

Well of course! That is part of the fun. Then again, would it not be considered atleast somewhat raided, for the lack of a better term, by a few hordes of adventurers? Considering that it has been accessible now and all of that. I could imagine that getting in and out would be harder.

LiadansWhisper · **03-12-2016, 08:55 PM**

(03-12-2016, 08:49 PM)Mavis Wrote:
(03-12-2016, 08:41 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: Just bear in mind that the abilities you see in Lost City HM are lost. Â So to utilize them, you'd probably have to re-discover them. The most likely way to do that would be for your character to survive Lost City...which is a pretty tall order.
Well of course! That is part of the fun. Then again, would it not be considered atleast somewhat raided, for the lack of a better term, by a few hordes of adventurers? Considering that it has been accessible now and all of that. I could imagine that getting in and out would be harder.

I believe it's been considered raided by one group of adventurers (though that information may or may not be widely known). It's also currently crawling with Padjal, Elementals, and Wailers, per the end of the dungeon quest. So that may also provide you with some issues, as I can assure you that if you're corrupting White Magic, all three are going to be extremely unhappy with you and will give you A Very Bad Time™.

In all honesty, I have yet to understand people who want to align White Magic with evil when it's so clearly not designed to do anything more than heal. Even weaponizing it appears to be extremely harmful in retrospect, and may very well be what accelerated the War of the Magi's damage of the earth itself. There's plenty of other magical schools that are either on the edge of evil, or just outright evil. I guess I just don't understand why someone would want to use the one intrinsically good and beneficial school of magic that way when there are much easier, and more sensible schools to access.

Mavis · **03-12-2016, 09:11 PM**

(03-12-2016, 08:55 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: I believe it's been considered raided by one group of adventurers (though that information may or may not be widely known). Â It's also currently crawling with Padjal, Elementals, and Wailers, per the end of the dungeon quest. Â So that may also provide you with some issues, as I can assure you that if you're corrupting White Magic, all three are going to be extremely unhappy with you and will give you A Very Bad Time™.

In all honesty, I have yet to understand people who want to align White Magic with evil when it's so clearly not designed to do anything more than heal. Â Even weaponizing it appears to be extremely harmful in retrospect, and may very well be what accelerated the War of the Magi's damage of the earth itself. Â There's plenty of other magical schools that are either on the edge of evil, or just outright evil. Â I guess I just don't understand why someone would want to use the one intrinsically good and beneficial school of magic that way when there are much easier, and more sensible schools to access.

Ones bad time can be anothers good time. Alright I will stop.Â

And I atleast am someone who doesn't like the entire "why use x when you can use y". It takes a character with questionable morals to use magic that is considered "evil", and someone either dilusional or twisted to use something outright evil. But twisting the essence of what can be seen by nearly all as good? That takes a very special kind of dedication. The hardships in acchieving that endgoal are much higher than with anything else yes, and it is much less sensible for a reasonable person. However who is to say that the character in question is reasonable.Â
And if everyone simply goes with the easy solution then things grow a lot less overall engaging if all that was played out was the safe and easy way, wouldn't you agree?

LiadansWhisper · **03-12-2016, 09:23 PM**

(03-12-2016, 09:11 PM)Mavis Wrote: And if everyone simply goes with the easy solution then things grow a lot less overall engaging if all that was played out was the safe and easy way, wouldn't you agree?

No, not really. Especially given that just gaining access to Succor itself is already extremely difficult to justify in character. There are already plenty of hurdles to clear, and I wouldn't call Black Magic or Void Magic the "safe and easy way," either. I feel like anyone believing they are doesn't really understand what they entail.

Just my $0.02. And that's all I'll say on the matter.

Mavis · **03-12-2016, 09:27 PM**

(03-12-2016, 09:23 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: No, not really. Â Especially given that just gaining access to Succor itself is already extremely difficult to justify in character. Â There are already plenty of hurdles to clear, and I wouldn't call Black Magic or Void Magic the "safe and easy way," either. Â I feel like anyone believing they are doesn't really understand what they entail.

Just my $0.02. Â And that's all I'll say on the matter.

I was more going on a little rant on the argument in general, both of the two mentioned are quite large beasts to tackle in their own regard. I just personally would classify weaponized succor as one level more abhorrent than the ones mentioned.Â
But well. I guess we just disagree, so I got nothing else to say on the matter, hope you have a good day.

***Nero*** · **03-12-2016, 09:30 PM**

(03-12-2016, 08:55 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:
(03-12-2016, 08:49 PM)Mavis Wrote:
(03-12-2016, 08:41 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: Just bear in mind that the abilities you see in Lost City HM are lost. Â So to utilize them, you'd probably have to re-discover them. The most likely way to do that would be for your character to survive Lost City...which is a pretty tall order.
Well of course! That is part of the fun. Then again, would it not be considered atleast somewhat raided, for the lack of a better term, by a few hordes of adventurers? Considering that it has been accessible now and all of that. I could imagine that getting in and out would be harder.

In all honesty, I have yet to understand people who want to align White Magic with evil when it's so clearly not designed to do anything more than heal. Even weaponizing it appears to be extremely harmful in retrospect, and may very well be what accelerated the War of the Magi's damage of the earth itself. There's plenty of other magical schools that are either on the edge of evil, or just outright evil. I guess I just don't understand why someone would want to use the one intrinsically good and beneficial school of magic that way when there are much easier, and more sensible schools to access.

On a purely narrative level, I'm sure there's something appealing in exploring the theme of "Light Is Not Good", and that tools are no more good or evil than their wielders. I'm not sure the healing capabilities of white magic would be appreciated as "good" if it was used to, say, keep a torture victim alive during interrogation in order to break them, or if a bad guy's conjurer croney managed to keep an explicitly evil boss alive and protected so that said explicitly evil boss can go set orphanages on fire.

Is white magic beneficial? Absolutely. But to whom it is beneficial can change the morality behind its usage radically.

Of course, ignoring all the lore stuff. I'm just talking about narrative context, here.

Kellach Woods · **03-12-2016, 09:44 PM**

(03-12-2016, 08:41 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: Just bear in mind that the abilities you see in Lost City HM are lost. Â So to utilize them, you'd probably have to re-discover them. The most likely way to do that would be for your character to survive Lost City...which is a pretty tall order.

Actually, Lost City HM - Lost City regular wouldn't yield any knowledge since the closest thing you'll find is Diabolos.

And he's not gonna be happy.

As far as "character surviving IC run of dungeon", we have at least a couple, including this guy *points to avatar* who have expeditions in dungeons and not just the tiny ones - I can understand just saying you did it but doing it with a group also helps on the planning front.

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