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Warren Castille · **03-15-2016, 12:14 PM**

(03-15-2016, 11:34 AM)Momo Wrote: To be fair to those who play "more powerful jobs", the good RPers who play them, don't do so because they want a strong character, they do so because they want to explore those jobs in-character. Â Often one of the points raised against powerful jobs, is power seeking, but if you are doing a job for power in a world of RP...you are totally missing the point, because no one can be commanded to acknowledge that power either way.
Another thing, how do we know that Raub doesn't have a soulstone, literally I am curious if this is mentioned or just assumed? Â Because the commander of the Sultansworn...I am just not sure he doesn't have a soulstone unless there is proof otherwise. Â Not that it matters! Â I am just curious! Hahaha

Bzzzzt. Raubahn's the Flame General and known to have competed in the Bloodsands, but he's got nothing to do with the Sultansworn.

Still, it could be argued that there IS a Flame General stone floating out there. We don't have enough information to definitely state one way or the other if he is a Job, a Class, or just an NPC.

Momo · **03-15-2016, 12:37 PM**

Sorry, at work not looking at my chart, Bloodsworn >,<;;;; Whoops, thank you Warren!

But I still stand by my soulstone idea!

LiadansWhisper · **03-15-2016, 02:08 PM**

(03-15-2016, 12:03 PM)Arklonn Sargonnai Wrote: It basically is 1.0 Conjury. In 1.0, Conjurers used all the elemental spells, and Thaumaturges were CC users, and blood mages iirc. (I actually reflect that in my Thaum RP as well; Ark uses a lot of old thaumaturgy). In fact, in 1.0, you could cast without having the wand in your hand, you just had to have it on your person, which accounts for a lot of what Y'shotla does. I kind of like to see them showing that a lot of the old methods are still viable even if our current classes don't reflect it.

Yes, I get what you're saying, but when she pops out with what we know to be an Astrologian ability (the aoe bubble she creates) and casts what looks suspiciously like Holy during the end of the ARR MSQ, I question whether it's a Conjurer we're dealing with.

Something to bear in mind is that what we have for classes and jobs are generally Eorzea-only. We have no real idea of what kind of magic and abilities are available outside of our lone continent beyond Ninja and Astrologian (and possibly Dark Knight). And we won't as long as the game takes place only on the continent of Eorzea.

(03-15-2016, 12:14 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: Still, it could be argued that there IS a Flame General stone floating out there. We don't have enough information to definitely state one way or the other if he is a Job, a Class, or just an NPC.

This is true of basically all the major NPCs we've run into except for Kan-E-Senna (who appears to be a very stereotypical White Mage/Padjal). They manifest abilities that don't fit into a single box. In some cases, that can be explained by them not being native to Eorzea at all (many of the Scions, for instance, are from Sharlayan).

Paradox · **03-15-2016, 03:52 PM**

As I recall, you could cross-class skills in 1.0 as well, but in a very different manner. It could just be they're using skills from other classes, or even skills they created themselves. I remember that one of the Heavens' Ward is able to combine thaumaturgyÂ with weapon play to imbue lightning into his weapon in one of the in-game references. I can't recall which but I know it's there. so it's entirely possible that people like Raubahn with a lot of combat experience have created their own fighting techniques.

As for Y'shtola, who can say. Again it could be that she's experienced enough that she knows ways to cast her spells that others don't because she's studied so long. In just about any environment with spells, there's metamagic, differences in casting method, and the like. Every wizard (or conjurer in this case) will likely find a way to customize and make their spells unique in order to keep ahead of the game. Especially with Sharlayans who study all kinds of old knowledge and magic theory.

Dis · **03-15-2016, 04:44 PM**

While I think it would be interesting if NPC's used their own specially tailored jobs (is that even a thing that someone could datamine to find out?), I'd like to think it's more that these individuals have had their classes so long that they've tailored them to their own fighting styles and unique abilities.Â

When you consider that these are the abilities that these individuals rely on to save their lives, etc, it makes sense that they'd adjust their skills to benefit their own unique fighting style.Â It's entirely possible that Y'shtola is a conjurer but uses a mixture of other magics, or has branched into other schools of magic, isn't it?Â At least, I feel that's what we're seeing implied by the skills she utilizes.

Also, if we're considering 'Eorzea' as a whole, are we only considering the three (now four) city states?Â This area of Aldenard also included Dravania and such, didn't it?Â Because didn't 'that' group come from the Idyllshire area, and not Sharlayan proper?Â I want to say that was implied in a conversation between quests at some point in early 3.0, but don't quote me on that because I might be misremembering what I read, it's been months since I played that content, and I don't know if we have a precise frame of reference on some of the NPC's ages to know if they were born in the colony or the actual region.

That said, with Sharlayan's being as focused on magic and learning as they are, I could definitely see it being something along the lines of Y'shtola knowing multiple forms of magic and study, because 'magic' seems to be her field, not just one specific form of magic.Â I also don't know how 'special' they're making the NPC's, or if they're literally just giving them powers that suit them within the lore to the effect of the utility they want those characters in the story to have.

That said, I think the idea of there being a special Flame General soulstone would be interesting.Â I think someone further up mentioned making a custom soulstone - I mean, we've seen it's possible to create a soulstone with the MCH quests.Â It's one of the things I have Glioca working toward now that she's ICly being trained as a Monk (if not specifically a Fist), is to create a unique soulstone that encompasses her ability to utilize magic in conjunction with her martial arts.Â

While I adore the jobs we see in XIV and like the lore surrounding some of them, I'd really like to see more people 'invent' their own jobs now that we technically know it's possible, either drawing inspiration from outside sources, or from other Final Fantasy games.

Aaron · **03-15-2016, 06:28 PM**

I really just look at the Class/Job thing as outlines to keep things organized.

If I saw a guy fix a car I'm not going to automatically assume he has a mechanics degree or whatever.

McBeefâ„¢ · **03-15-2016, 06:32 PM**

(03-15-2016, 06:28 PM)Aaron Wrote: I really just look at the Class/Job thing as outlines to keep things organized.

If I saw a guy fix a car I'm not going to automatically assume he has a mechanics degree or whatever.

If you want to be a mechanic you have level up handyman to lvl 30 and then get 15 lvls in plumber.

Then you can go start the quest to get your job stone.

Aaron · **03-15-2016, 06:45 PM**

(03-15-2016, 06:32 PM)McBeefÂ© Wrote:
(03-15-2016, 06:28 PM)Aaron Wrote: I really just look at the Class/Job thing as outlines to keep things organized.

If I saw a guy fix a car I'm not going to automatically assume he has a mechanics degree or whatever.
If you want to be a mechanic you have level up handyman to lvl 30 and then get 15 lvls in plumber.

Then you can go start the quest to get your job stone.

To hell with that I'll just steal one.

Warren Castille · **03-15-2016, 08:06 PM**

(03-15-2016, 03:52 PM)Arklonn Sargonnai Wrote: As I recall, you could cross-class skills in 1.0 as well, but in a very different manner. It could just be they're using skills from other classes, or even skills they created themselves. I remember that one of the Heavens' Ward is able to combine thaumaturgyÂ with weapon play to imbue lightning into his weapon in one of the in-game references. I can't recall which but I know it's there. so it's entirely possible that people like Raubahn with a lot of combat experience have created their own fighting techniques.

If I remember correctly, the HW guy is even referenced as a rare instance of combining techniques. Don't quote me on this, I might be misremembering.

(03-15-2016, 04:44 PM)Glioca Sargonnai Wrote: While I think it would be interesting if NPC's used their own specially tailored jobs (is that even a thing that someone could datamine to find out?), I'd like to think it's more that these individuals have had their classes so long that they've tailored them to their own fighting styles and unique abilities.Â

Datamining only works for actual in-game abilities; Things that happen in cutscenes don't count as abilities and as such, don't appear in the dats.

Sounsyy · **03-15-2016, 11:06 PM**

(03-14-2016, 09:31 PM)McBeefÂ© Wrote:
(03-14-2016, 09:07 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: I realize this is hyperbole, but, not entirely accurate. Nym and Qarn both got wiped out by plague.
I bet we'll find out eventually the plague was caused by trying to build a portal to the henceforth unmentioned realm of disease or something.

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(03-15-2016, 11:34 AM)Momo Wrote: Another thing, how do we know that Raub doesn't have a soulstone, literally I am curious if this is mentioned or just assumed? Â Because the commander of the Sultansworn...I am just not sure he doesn't have a soulstone unless there is proof otherwise. Â Not that it matters! Â I am just curious! Hahaha

Warren's already corrected the Sultansworn bit. What I wanted to add was that Raubahn Aldynn, unlike the poor excuse for gladiators in 2.0, actually fought on the Bloodsands in Ul'dah, making him an actual gladiator. Hence class, not job. No soulstone needed. Remember, "classes" are (for the most part) current Eorzean-specific professions whose knowledge and techniques are taught in an Eorzean guild. "Jobs" are older/ancient professions that are no longer used in Eorzea at large.

Hence a soulstone's usefulness, as it houses souls and memories of past wielders. Soulstones do not empower the wielder, they do not increase their strength or magical ability. They house memories which allows us to learn skills more rapidly. There are certain professions which require a soulstone to utilize the memories/talents, but there is not a single soulstone which empowers a person to perform beyond their normal physique. (okay, Gem of Shatotto is debatable...)

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(03-15-2016, 03:52 PM)Arklonn Sargonnai Wrote: As I recall, you could cross-class skills in 1.0 as well, but in a very different manner. It could just be they're using skills from other classes, or even skills they created themselves. I remember that one of the Heavens' Ward is able to combine thaumaturgyÂ with weapon play to imbue lightning into his weapon in one of the in-game references. I can't recall which but I know it's there. so it's entirely possible that people like Raubahn with a lot of combat experience have created their own fighting techniques.

Here's the quote you were looking for, translated from Dengeki Online:

Ser Hermenost the Thunderous Wrote:A veteran from the previous Lord Commanderâ€™s tenure, Hermenost was originally a friar in the service of Halone, and is known as a particularly devout man. Although he wields an axe on the battlefield, he is also a skilled mage, and devised a unique method of combat that involves imbuing his axe with lightning.

That said, Raubahn, as well as several other gladiators from 1.0 and 2.0 have devised their own unique swordplay that uses aether manipulation. Rage of Halone is actually a special technique created by Greinfarr the Great. When he uses it, his sword bursts into purple flame. Raubahn does his flame thrower sword thingy. Obviously, Ilberd does something similar. On the one hand, you can say that this seems to be a common enough occurrence to say its common practice to imbue your blade with aether/elements. On the other hand, all noted figures doing something to this effect have been incredibly skilled disciples of their class.

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(03-15-2016, 11:57 AM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: It's heavily implied multiple times in the MSQ that Tancredo is really, REALLY old. Possibly immortal.

Y'shtola has used abilities from multiple jobs (or, at least, things that LOOK like those abilities). I'm not sure what she is, but I'm sure shes NOT a Conjurer (or, at least, that isn't her main source of power). Probably 90% of what she uses bears no resemblance to Conjury, for all that she carries a wand.

Umm, where are you getting this? Thancred is only 32~33 years old.

The Walker's Path Wrote:Perpetually passing by, Thancred had drifted in and out of Minfiliaâ€™s life for years. He had been seventeen when they first metâ€”five years her senior.

Y'shtola and her sister Y'mhitra are both, for all intents and purposes conjurers. They use elemental-based magic, channel through a wand of unworked wood, and are furthermore identified in the game as conjurers. Now, are they Gridanian conjurers? Certainly not. Y'shtola has a mastery of conjury, but considering her upbringing at the Sharlayan Studium, as well as being personally tutored by Matoya, it makes sense that she's familiar in many varied forms of Sharlayan magicks. Hence the bubble, teleportation, decoying, bullet-deflecting, and bullet-dodging magicks she wields.

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Despite being born in the Shroud, the practice of Conjury isn't limited to just there. As demonstrated by Ishgard's Scholasticate teaching conjury and thaumaturgy. If the Ishgardians have learned it, you can bet the Sharlayans have as well.

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(03-15-2016, 04:44 PM)Glioca Sargonnai Wrote: That said, with Sharlayan's being as focused on magic and learning as they are, I could definitely see it being something along the lines of Y'shtola knowing multiple forms of magic and study, because 'magic' seems to be her field, not just one specific form of magic.

She is well-versed in magical learning, yes, but Y'shtola's chosen field of study is actually ancient languages/religious texts interestingly enough. She's a Sage of Exegesis.

Y'shtola Wrote:The â€œmark of the sagesâ€ is attributed to persons whose knowledge in a given field has been recognized by the Sharlayan scientific community. To bear it is an honor that belongs to the most elite of our scholars. I donâ€™t want to say that we exegetes are better than the other Sharlayan scholars, but there is no doubt that we have done our best to achieve excellence. Every one of us has a specialty. This allows us to cover large areas of knowledge, yet still research them thoroughly.

Phew, okay. All caught up in this thread. Will tackle General Lore tomorrow. @_@;

Valence · **03-16-2016, 04:33 AM**

Nothing tells us that all the conjury skills appearing ingame and available to us are actually the full comprehensive arsenal available to conjurers... I would even argue that since we don't have access to the whole elements anymore, it probably isn't. And yes, added to the fact that's just Gridanian conjury. Considering the extent of magical knowledge held by Sharlayan, I would expect to see them throwing a lot of their own twists into the art.

Momo · **03-16-2016, 11:33 AM**

So basically what you are saying is Rauby is GLD/Crossclass: Badass? Â Because that is what I am getting from all this. Â "Sorry excuse" for gladiator far underscores how sad they must truly be, as in 1.0, even against what we are to assume is a champion gladiator, it is clear that Raub doesn't even use a fraction of his power (lets not even talk about how many arms he has at the time), and I personally thought the only reason he managed to lose that arm was because of rage/distraction rather than lack of skill or mismatched ability against whatshisface.

Also, I suppose from Rauby, we are to infer, you can become powerful doing only a job, if you work really hard, and you crush all the competition (or just work really hard if you're boring)? Â Because seeing a job become this strong...leaves a lot of questions about the further powers of classes and their match ups against one another. Â My current thoughts are on the similarity of Rauby's abilities and Ifrit as well as a pinch of NIN/Rogue thrown in....hmmmmm.

LiadansWhisper · **03-16-2016, 03:01 PM**

@Sounsyy: I swear I saw at least two references during the MSQ. But I may be misremembering so I'm going to go thru the cuts cents again tonight when I get off work.

I still think that Y'shtola defies being placed in a single box as far as magical ability.

LiadansWhisper · **03-16-2016, 03:11 PM**

(03-16-2016, 04:33 AM)Valence Wrote: Nothing tells us that all the conjury skills appearing ingame and available to us are actually the full comprehensive arsenal available to conjurers... I would even argue that since we don't have access to the whole elements anymore, it probably isn't. And yes, added to the fact that's just Gridanian conjury. Considering the extent of magical knowledge held by Sharlayan, I would expect to see them throwing a lot of their own twists into the art.

I was talking about this with some friends last night. We don't really have any idea of magical traditions on the other continent beyond what little we know of Sharlayan and the npc mob names we see for Imperial conscripts. I'm sure there are other schools of magic that accomplish the same or similar things to Conjury or even White Magic

Yssen · **03-16-2016, 04:53 PM**

It can be pretty difficult to say what an NPC is in terms of Job or Class. Take it as an example of a character not being defined only being a Job or Class. There is a line blur that exists because Classes are professions as well as areas of combat study. For example, a Gladiator is someone that is trained to fight with a sword and shield, that is the training the guild offers. A Gladiator is also anyone that earns their living fighting on the Blood Sands of Ul'dah. There are several known Gladiators that do not fight with sword and shield at all, including one famous former champion.Â

We do have examples of NPCs being defined as specific Classes, but it is still murky even there. Thancred is defined and referred to as a Rogue, yet he has also been called a Bard on more than one occasion (despite the fact we never see him fight with a bow ever). Y'shtola uses lots of funky magic, and according to her VA (more than one, if we wish to get down to brass tacks) is referred to in story and production notes as a WHM (and yeah, her VA absolutely knows what a WHM is in terms of this game's story and such). She certainly has access to WHM only abilities, but she has at no time been outright called a WHM by the game. Why? Probably because it doesn't matter to the story. It may never matter to the story, or it may be such a big deal that it is being saved for some later point in the plot. At present, this little tid bit only serves the role of being a point of debate (usually as to the ability for characters to be non-shroud bound WHMs) and whether one agrees that Y'shtola is a WHM or isn't is fairly immaterial, since we do not know how she acquired those abilities in the first place.Â

NPCs have whatever abilities suit the needs of the story (whether through narrative or just through a fight) and the same is true of our own RP characters. As long as a widget/job/class/maguffin is used in service to story, it doesn't matter what it does or is. In the end, it is an aspect of the character, and not necessarily the most defining point. In general, it is hard to go wrong when using this approach. My two cents. Hope it has been helpful. ^ ^

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FFXIV jobs in RP

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes