| Poll: Is a tiny voidsent helper bad? You do not have permission to vote in this poll. |
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| Yes, just burn it already. | 39 | 90.70% | |
| NO! Look at her tiny wings! SHE IS ADORABLE! | 4 | 9.30% | |
| Total | 43 vote(s) | 100% | |
| * You voted for this item. | [Show Results] |
| How much is too much Voidsent? |
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RE: How much is too much Voidsent? |
05-12-2016, 12:29 AM
(This post was last modified: 05-12-2016, 12:33 AM by ExAtomos.)
(05-12-2016, 12:07 AM)Abodo Wrote:(05-12-2016, 12:02 AM)ExAtomos Wrote: Could this be what makes the difference? How it's presented? Yeah, that's pretty much where my brain's been sittin. I think it's the concept of being faced with some phenomenal cosmic power that a character claims to have that halts me more than the idea: "I'm a voidsent!" "Great. So you're a powerful being of darkness..." *spits out a couple feeble Blizzard spells that couldn't cool off a sweet tea* "That's... all I got." "...you're kidding." "I was fired from my last job in Tam Tara. They said I wasn't scary enough. I've been demoted to pretending to be some Aldgoat out near Camp Drybone for people's leves." ". . ." "Okay, NOW I'm kidding." What do we have to work with in game? Strict lore and plausible filling in of gaps in lore. Unlike real world histories and legends, game lore is a mere skeleton of stories (some very detailed, granted) and we are left to fill in the blanks where we can. Someone wants to be a living suit of armor (met one in the Quicksand once). "Does it fit the lore we have?" "Is it plausible?" "Does it fit within the spirit of FF games?" These are all questions I run through my head when faced with unusual character ideas. Me, I draw the line at invulnerability. Ok, you say you're a god walking around... if we are battling and I /random higher than you, I better be able to punch you in the godly nose. 
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RE: How much is too much Voidsent? |
05-12-2016, 10:44 AM
I know it's inherently flawed to inject real-world rationale into fantasy pretendy times, but I've always had great difficulty in letting what I consider to be "logic" slide in the face of storytelling. Someone being voidtouched is certainly a thing that can happen; We see the slow transformation of some stuff in Tamtara Hard Mode and the THM storyline deals with gradual corruption of someone. As Sounsyy stated, seeing something clearly unnatural would lead to pretty easy accusations lobbed at things that aren't normal.
Yugiri chose to hide her identity because she didn't want to make a huge deal about her arrival, remember. It lends that a little girl who sprouted demon/bat wings would draw a little bit of suspicion, especially in Ul'dah. The Ossuary is pretty much the Center for Demon Control in Eorzea as far as we've seen, and it isn't that far off to think there's some kind of "See something, say something" protocol in effect for the city. At the very least, it follows the logic of the world to consider it. The problem/challenge/issue with Voidsent RP isn't that it happens; We've seen it in-game and it's certainly a known thing. The issue, I think, is when people flaunt that shit openly and in public settings. There's no means for anyone in game to stop someone playing an out-and-out succubus in a tavern, for example, despite the logic of the world dictating immediate response from adventurers/a militia/the Grand Companies. If you were going to have a child with obviously-otherworldly-features walking around as if it weren't no thang, that would be a bit much for a lot to swallow. Again, if you wanted to run the story there's plenty of means to. Run it as is, run it without the void, do whatever you'd like with the concept, but the biggest hurdle anyone playing with a template has to jump over with the community is whether or not it's done for a purpose beyond "I wanted to RP a voidsent."
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RE: How much is too much Voidsent? |
05-12-2016, 03:03 PM
As far as I'm concerned it's best for people to avoid role-playing anything directly related to Voidsent unless those individuals are willing to accept that their character is likely to be killed, imprisoned or exiled.
Though most people make excuses as to why that can't happen - which puts a lot of the people  they interact with in an awkward position. The vast majority of player characters are portrayed as 'good aligned'. Therefore when people have their character expose the fact that they're corrupted or planning to murder someone then the role-players behind those 'good aligned' characters usually have to make a choice. Either they try to get involved to dish out justice or they simply ignore it. Most end up going for the latter option because again, most people playing Voidsent pull it off poorly. Can it be done well? Certainly - but it's incredibly rare and I've seen far too many people believe that they will be the exception to the rule and somehow succeed where others have failed. Those same individuals will usually fall into the exact same pitfalls, making excuses as to why their character can't be killed, imprisoned or exiled and then the cycle just repeats itself. Ultimately people can do whatever they like...though that goes without saying, I feel.
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RE: How much is too much Voidsent? |
05-12-2016, 03:56 PM
So I've been skimming this thread a bit and I have to bring up an issue that comes up with all of these types of "Can I RP ____?" threads:
People saying "You can RP whatever you want. Don't let people tell you how to play the game." I realize this is meant in the nicest possible way, but it's really misleading. Yes, you can RP however you want. But to answer that way to every question about whether someone should or whether it's lore appropriate really gets on my nerves. I feel like it insults the intelligence of the OP. They know they can. Giving a fluff answer that essentially has the same functionality as saying "You're special! Everyone is special!" is just kind of unnecessary. No one thinks the RP police are going to take them away and throw them in a hole for life if they run around saying they're Professor X. That's not the issue. One time, like three years ago, a guy showed up saying he was RPing a character from DCUO, who literally was transported to Eorzea by Lex Luthor from Metropolis. Now, he was clearly new to RP, and when he asked if that was something he could do, people gave him this "You're the best, and your opinions are the best." response and then no one wanted to RP with him because he came off as a lore-breaking crazy man. It's totally misleading and it hurts far more than it helps. So, for future reference, when someone asks "Can I RP this?" can we start giving the honest answer on whether it's socially appropriate or it follows the lore? Sorry, this kind of went off the beaten path of the thread, but it's just something that came up here as well and I thought I'd address it while one of these types of threads is popular. If you're reading this as a mod or admin or whatever and think this should be in its own thread, shoot me a PM and I'll take care of it. Just felt it was an issue worth addressing.
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RE: How much is too much Voidsent? |
05-12-2016, 04:16 PM
There was actually a good couple of threads where people said "Can I RP this?" and people pointed out with the lore why they could not, and it resulted in pages-long forum wars between elitists and RP illuminatis and popular crowds gatekeeping what's "acceptable" for RP.
If people are doing it, it's because no one wants to derail into a WHM or Miqo'te Dragoon tangent again. It sounds patronizing, and I suppose it is, but there's good precedent for it.
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RE: How much is too much Voidsent? |
05-12-2016, 04:36 PM
Unlike Forum RPing, MMO RPing is way more community heavy. My time RPing in Gaia i've noticed that if you are not in a guild for RPing one thing it's usually multiple things in various sub threads. As such the community is everywhere from original to actual RP in universe stuff.
MMOs on the other hand has more open community and to me the comment of "You can RP whatever you want, ignore haters' Only makes me shake my head. While yes you are free to RP what you want, you have to take in account that other people you may want to RP with may avoid you or worse...Spread stuff about how to avoid you. I'm not going to name anyone in particular but let's say person A's attitude OOC wise is highly known to be unstable and while he is good at his IC work on his character, slowly people stopped RPing with Person A because of how he takes some IC situations into OOC because of either an RP issue he hates or someone hating his RP You can't please everyone but you CAN find a middle ground with the community of RPers. My thread I hope has been helpful for the group thus far about Voidsent and supernatural opinions and I will probably rename the topic to something more appropriate if it continues on. So to me, hearing "You can RP whatever you want, Don't let others tell you how to play." Is more harm than good. You can RP whatever you want yes but if it actually breaks the lore you might not get a good group of players or even anyone responding because of your infamy. For a while, I was actually scared to approach Warren and the Grindstone with Quint purely because my character was still fresh despite the backstory i hidden about her until then. I know Arala is more middle ground in terms of character but with Quint my lore stick was being bent on the verge of snapping in half with each person i talk to. If you want to RP whatever you want, you have to also respect the limitations and already established lore in the game to make a good RP. But the subject in question I brought up is a concern since I'd want people to give me as much feedback as they wish about their opinions on it. I actively ignore the "Rp what i want" line purely because I don't want people's own immersions to be broken.
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RE: How much is too much Voidsent? |
05-12-2016, 05:07 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-12-2016, 05:07 PM by Verad.)
(05-12-2016, 04:23 PM)Abodo Wrote: My main concern isn't having a ton of lore-breakers running around and doing what they want, it's that a lot of the people who say "RP what you want" are already in established cliques in the community, so they're not worried about what actually happens when you RP what you want. They'll tell everyone their ideas are special and should be accepted, but they're not there to actually RP with them after everyone else says "You're lore-breaking, don't talk to me." That presumes the community respects the lore at large in the first place. I don't believe that's the case in FFXIV, though the RPC with its couple-dozen or so die-hard adherents and its prominence can and does give the position a lot of visibility. What I've found to be the case instead is that the RPC believes one thing, and the players in-game another. Because of that, I tell people to RP whatever they want. Verad Bellveil's Profile | The Case of the Ransacked Rug | Verad's Fate Sheet
Current Fate-14 Storyline:Â Merchant, Marine
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RE: How much is too much Voidsent? |
05-12-2016, 08:10 PM
I just feel bad for those who perhaps become so afraid of offending the strict lore-abiders somehow that they give up on trying to RP at all.
 It's almost as though the lore becomes a specter by itself, some boogeyman lurking under the bed that will gobble you up if you dare make one mistake. >.>;
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RE: How much is too much Voidsent? |
05-12-2016, 11:03 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-12-2016, 11:25 PM by Caspar.)
What Abodo discussed has been weighing on my mind a lot lately, and the conclusion I came to was that, for me personally, the best approach to chargen threads is to make suggestions based on giving the player what they want, while being honest about the concept, and not really volunteering a strong opinion for or against the idea unless prodded to do so.
Frankly I'm garbage at it right now, as it's hard to escape a bias, but I want to address the themes that the idea should engage with given the setting and lore, then assess what it is the player wants to do with the concept, and then given them alternatives in case the themes end up not working for them or for others who'd wish to play with them. Like here, I felt thematically there were other options for Parth, so I suggested them. To me that seems like a reasonable middle ground, and probably why posters who just supply lore info and not a stylistic opinion or "I rarely see this done well" seem to get better reception from newer players. Essentially people are answering a question that hasn't been asked, but is assumed to be understood from chargen threads, which is of course "will you play with me if I do this?" I think it's right to be concerned that being too nice will let people get the wrong impression about how accepting people on the forum will be to the idea, and some new posters ask the questions they really don't want answered. The best way to deal with that, I feel, is to just give them the facts and tell how it can be done, and if they look at the steps they need to take to make it happen according to or in spite of the rules the setting imposes, and decide that it's not for them, that's fine too. Likewise I get where Abodo is coming from, and I've seen the argument that misleading new players drives them away. In a logical sense it is reasonable to think that there's a correlation there, but I think that lack of RP or RP ostracism and elitism are two separate problems in most cases on RPC. For instance, a lot of veterans who are proud of their adherence to lore also get put off because they feel they're on the outs and can't find partners to play with. That characteristic is not criticized off the site, whereas the other problem is often at the core of criticism players from the RPC or who used to frequent this site bring up when they visit other places, like Reddit, in-game, etc. I felt this was off topic a little, but it was worth mentioning. ã€Œè’¼æ°—ç ²ã€ã‚’使ã‚ã–ã‚‹ã‚’å¾—ãªã„!
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RE: How much is too much Voidsent? |
05-13-2016, 12:50 AM
Experiences may very well differ, so take this with a pinch of salt, but I've never really seen many posters on this site or role-players in-game demand a strict adherence to the game's lore. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but it's far more common for me to see people in both crowds to shrug their shoulders and make a big fuss about the existence of supposedly widespread 'elitism'.
Usually it's something spouted by the same handful of posters across multiple threads; no doubt providing an illusion of sorts as to it being much more common than it actually is. At the end of the day many people who end up clashing on this site due to differing opinions aren't likely to ever interact with each other in-game anyway. That's something well worth remembering, I feel. There's also role-players who treat any form of standards or constructive criticism as the most horrific personal attack they've ever experienced in their lives. That alone is often justification for the 'obvious' disclaimers brought up as a point of discussion within this very thread.
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