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Aaron · **06-01-2016, 09:49 AM**

Sidurgu is like literally the only Au Ra you see in Ishgard though ain't he?

Sounsyy · **06-01-2016, 09:54 AM**

Quickly hopping in here before I go out to clear up some timeline confusion I've seen in the thread so far.

Xaela Au Ra have been documented entering Eorzea three times in recent history. These instances are all extremely small groups or a single tribe who have come, and then subsequently been all but eradicated by circumstances within a few months of arriving. Hence why Au Ra are still a huge unknown to most Eorzeans. This is not to say Xaela could not have appeared at other points in Eorzea history, just that we have no other documented cases yet. Though, I imagine if future cases show up, they will follow a similar pattern - a small group shows up, does a thing, gets killed, one person lives on to become a questgiver.

Here's the three instances:

- c.100 Years Ago: A small group of Xaela scholars travel to Dravania seeking to activate the Enigma Codex.
- c.25-30 Years Ago: Sidurgu's small tribe of Xaela comes to Ishgard. Temple Knights attack them, but the Xaela successfully repel them, showing the Ishgardians mercy. The Ishgardians return in greater numbers and slaughter all of the Xaela except for Sidurgu.
- c.3 Years Ago: A descendant of that first Xaela tribe seeking the Enigma Codex summons Alexander.

Brief Ishgardian Timeline:

- c.20 Years Ago (1557): The 8th Awakening of Nidhogg. Estinien's home village of Ferndale is razed. Azure Dragoon Alberic Bale fails to defeat Nidhogg and retires.
- c.16-20 Years Ago: Ishgard withdraws from the Eorzean Alliance and closes off its gates.
- c. 5 Years Ago (1572): The Calamity sets off an eternal fallout winter over Ishgard. Where once there were hot summers, now there is only a savage winter without end.

(06-01-2016, 09:06 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: He talks about the Au Ra first getting attacked the first time they Ishgardians, but says something along the lines of "They found out we don't die so easily." It implies (to me anyway!) that after the initial bits of skirmish, those hostilities stopped. I mean, Sidurgu hangs out in a bar in plain sight, so...

Here's what Sidurgu tells us happened to his tribe:

Sidurgu Wrote:The first Ishgardians to encounter Au Ra saw Dravanians. We had fled Garlemald's armies only to come to a land where we were mistaken for another nation's mortal enemy. They bared steel and came to kill us...but we did not die so easily. We spared them and sent them on their way...and how do you think they repaid our kindness? With fire and blood! With death for every man, woman, and child!

...I was about Rielle's age when I came to Ishgard. My parents, they...they said we would find a better life here. When the Temple Knights we had shown mercy returned, they let us choose the order in which we would die. That would be their mercy to us, they declared.

So yeah, Sidurgu is the only one from the tribe that escaped. This was 20-30 years ago and while most Ishgardians still view Au Ra with suspicion and possibly even hatred, I think its established somewhere that they recognize the Au Ra as a Spoken race, and not Dravanian anymore. Of course, prejudice likely still reigns supreme.

Valence · **06-01-2016, 10:34 AM**

With that now, the way I see it, is that Au'ri are probably regarded either through bigoted eyes (probably lots of them still, the fall of the Holy See is very recent as we can see in the folks not very happy about it in 3.2 and the ceremony for peace), or either as a race like any other. A case can be reasonably made for both until specified the contrary.

I for one do not especially see non hyur/elezen ishgardians (except for aristocracy that is purely elezen) not to be a thing. For citizens I would argue that it's just a matter of demographic representation: we see few of those, if none at all. It can reasonably be argued that ishgardian citizens are probably for most of them hyur and elezen, and the possible remaining percentage extremely low. However, especially since the opening of the gates, the amount of foreigners strolling all around had probably dramatically increased. It is actually a fact since we already see those (Cid's entourage, Ronsthal the roe in the MCH questline, etc). The same way that a case can be made very strongly for ishgardian xenophobia, the opposite case can also be made for liberal and/or progressive ishgardians that are extremely present in LOTS of quests (MCH questline, Haillenarte/Fortemps Houses, the MSQ, etc) and are actually a growing movement that currently HOLDS the advantage politically through Aymeric the Blue.Â

In short, I do not, absolutely not, see an ishgardian DRK taking a non hyur/elezen as a disciple as weird, especially since DRKs are rebellious and all for the greater good and benevolence, yadayada. I do not see other races present as a minority in Ishgard as weird either, but I would see that as technically very bizarre to see them with actual citizenship or very ishgardian roles though (dragoon, halonic priests, scholars, knights, nobles, etc).

Zhu · **06-01-2016, 04:11 PM**

I have silently observed the debate and I believe that some legitimate issues about this concept have been brought up, which I hope to solve with this new addition to the backstory:

That being, giving a backstory to the mentor too. Perhaps if I give him more reasons to do what he did than what I currently gave out (which is very little, admittedly) my character's job could have a more solid footing.

Dark Knights have to operate in Ishgard, and in secret. They root out the corrupt by breaking the law and often through murder, thus said secrecy is vital for the order to survive the Holy See's wrath.

But what if my character's mentor killed someone too important for him to get away with it (Mind that I am not talking about nobody that appeared or was even mentioned in the game or it's lore. Just an high-ranked knight or even a wealthy noble, perhaps)? Or perhaps a witness got away and talked. Now his cover is blown and the rest of his fellow knights will be discovered and killed too if he doesn't escape. Least the damage would have been severe on them all.

So this Dark Knight leads the chase as far away from his companions as he possibly could: Outside Coerthas. Technically he is not a Dark Knight anymore for he is basically exiled from Ishgard, but he still have his skills and motivations to go on with and fixes the wrongs he stumbles upon.

Now there's no reason for him not to take an apprentice of any race. He is stripped of his obligations to Ishgard (not by choice but because many years will have to pass before the ripples he caused calms down) and as a DRK, rebelling to most of Ishgardian customs is part of what he does, so I am of the opinion he wouldn't have any sort of race hate against others (everyone are equals in justice).

Enters my character. He trains her in the same philosophy and skill-set that a Dark Knight would have, but without the title. She can't be knighted proper because: Not only is she a non-ishgardian, but her mentor is also an exiled without access to other knights that may cast approval on a new face in the order, plus other reasons that many could come up with.

But she still would have all the motives, the mentality and the arts required to do what they do, and so they act on their own without following official rules which still fits with how the job works with or without title.

What do you guys think of this addition? If you heard this in roleplay, would you keep your suspension of belief and find it plausible, whether you like it or not on a narrative level? Does it give enough reason for my character to be what she is (or would be)?

Problems weren't addressed in the fourth draft that this one solves:

It is not a Dark Knight in the formal sense. Thus it does not violate the character of the actual job while still accessing it's assets.
The timeline is less of an issue because the mentor could have had his accident at any point during my character's life. The he would meet her after the ordeal.
It removes Ishgardian ties from my character other than the origins of what my mentor teaches, to which he is free to share. Due to said mentor's exile, they still wouldn't have access to Ishgard itself and thus no reason to force her interact with the nation prior to the present times at all.
I can have some backstory out and about the Calamity without needing to worry too much about where/when/how my character did things.
Without the title, the character loses the more RP-limiting obligations that comes with it (such as being technically bound to Coerthas). Thus I would need less reasons to be around and more RP possibilities open up.

Still this is not "perfect" by any means, but I believe it is atleast a bit better and is respectful towards actual DRK RPers and the lore itself, I hope. Your thoughts are welcome and I'll ponder on whether or not go through with this based on the feedback I receive on this. I do not wish to make too much noise and I hope this solution is pleasant to atleast those that read it.

Virella · **06-01-2016, 04:48 PM**

At the end of the day, you're the one who wants to RP one. The combo you want of race and job is simply neigh impossible.

DRKs most likely will still have a hate against Au ra. I'm pretty sure they are probably one of the most fanatic folk when it comes down to hunting down what is 'wrong'. Au ra are wrong in the eyes in the Ishgardian.

And... DRK aren't an official organisation. Whereas they can be exiled from Ishgard no doubt, their order isn't one who would do it. Nor do they knight folk. They are just the batmans of Ishgard. No one appoints them. It is a 'burden' they just pick up themselves.

Really, I'd say you either just have to bite the bullet and go "well my char's going to be lore wonky, and fuck it if people don't like it", or just drop it.

It is not a Dark Knight in the formal sense. Thus it does not violate the character of the actual job while still accessing it's assets.

This is one of the things who personally make me eye roll the most. There's really nothing wrong with just... rolling the race, age, nationality, required background ect to play what is required for the job/class. But that is me.

In any case, I think I made it clear enough by now that Au ra and DRK ain't going to happen, unless you go for the "I stumble onto a soul stone route". And even then. Why the fuck would an Au ra care about Ishgard's wrongdoing? You're taking a very specific class/job who's made for purging corrupt folk from their society. Especially with Au ra being slaughtered by Ishgardians in the past... I got a hard time believing why they should or would care.

It is up to you whether you want to be lore compliant or not. Au ra DRK is simply ain't going to be unless you conjure up things out of thin air with "Othardian DRKs" or something what I've seen others do.

I personally don't get why you are so set up onto roleplaying one, whereas you could just go... a Warrior, Lancer or Maurader. I find it more likely an Au ra travelled up the Hellsguard villages after the Garleans wrecked their shit, and learned how to Warrior there. But once more, being a baby Au Ra doesn't probably work all that convincing. You still have something semi emotion based I supposed, get to be flashy rargh in combat, and you can always level DRK and go "well she's just a warrior with a sword deal with it". You don't need to be a DRK to wield a sword. There's tons of folk who just levelled the class OOC to hold a sword in RP, including myself.

Hell, I'd say most jobs just sound silly if you make your char super young... Anyhow. It is up to you what to do with it, I don't know how many times I can keep ripping and tearing at your char concept, but for saying once more. Au ra + DRK = ain't a lore friendly combo despite posterboy +50 quests.

Warren Castille · **06-01-2016, 05:42 PM**

Sidurgu says hello...? He's a prominent quest NPC that hangs out in Ishgard and last time I checked, he's not having to worry about being lynched or anything despite having come from elsewhere, and he's a Dark Knight. It's plenty possible.

Edit: There's a lot we don't know about how Dark Knights operate, really. They don't seem to be an order, but they're known collectively as Dark Knights. We know Sid and Fray worked together to some extent. There being Dark Knight "cells" isn't really that far off. Sidurgu's folks first met Ishgard 20~ years ago, but that was before the doors closed. We don't know if other Au Ra showed up inside of the city, and we can't say definitely they don't exist. It's kind of the miqo'te argument all over again: The game doesn't show it, but it also doesn't say it can't happen.

At the end of the day, I think if you write anything well enough, people will buy it.

Caspar · **06-01-2016, 06:17 PM**

I don't see it as self evident that Dark Knights equate the existence of foreign races such as the Xaela as "a wrong to right." This is a misleading twisting of the lore. The Dark Knight questline involves fighting against societal wrongs, of which those victimized by the dragonsong war could easily be included. (Such as those who were conceived by cultists, dravanians, the poor who get eaten whenever the brume is attacked, etc.) The Xaela who came to Ishgard and possibly any who still endure discrimination could indirectly be considered victims of the conflict, as they are not dragons yet were persecuted as such.

I cannot see it as impossible to reconcile age and race with the class in regards to au ra. If you don't like the combination that's fine, but clearly it is a key element of the character concept and the idea is to consider ways you could make it work narratively within the lore, rather than to say why it shouldn't be played.

Valence · **06-01-2016, 06:37 PM**

(06-01-2016, 04:48 PM)Virella Wrote: At the end of the day, you're the one who wants to RP one. The combo you want of race and job is simply neigh impossible.

DRKs most likely will still have a hate against Au ra. I'm pretty sure they are probably one of the most fanatic folk when it comes down to hunting down what is 'wrong'. Au ra are wrong in the eyes in the Ishgardian.

I think that's jumping to conclusion and a lot of assumptions here. We only know that a good lot of ishgardians are conditioned by the last decade in isolationism to be extremely xenophobic, which is justified by religion (a powerful motivator if you will). We also know that a good lot of other ishgardians are also very, very liberal compared to their brethren as I said above.

You can perfectly find a DRK that is still a good bigoted ishgardian on race issues, or one that just doesn't give a shit. Actually, their views on race is probably totally unrelated to their own beliefs of social justice, but the reasonable assumption to my eyes would be that as long as you seek social justice like a batman, you usually don't get to be too bigoted in terms of xenophobia, or that stops being about justice. Of course, you can still find excuses for some DRK that only seeks justice for his kin only, or whatever, but that's starting to get very specific and I don't think that's actually what we are being sold by SE.

(06-01-2016, 04:48 PM)Virella Wrote: Really, I'd say you either just have to bite the bullet and go "well my char's going to be lore wonky, and fuck it if people don't like it", or just drop it.

I fail to see anything lore wonky myself. It makes sense, and I'm certainly not judging the quality of the story here or if it's good or bad. I'm just saying that everything is definitely totally lore friendly to me. What would not be would be an Au'ra character that is a Knight or a Dragoon for example.

(06-01-2016, 04:48 PM)Virella Wrote: This is one of the things who personally make me eye roll the most. There's really nothing wrong with just... rolling the race, age, nationality, required background ect to play what is required for the job/class. But that is me.

There is basically nothing required race wise to run a DRK to my knowledge. Anyone living in Ishgard could do that and be batman. It would not be possible BEFORE 3.0 timeline since Ishgard is closed, but after? Yeah. I don't see anything preventing it. Don't have especially to be elezen or hyur to play batman.

Of course then, if it's about being a Knight, who is actually a Dark Knight in the sense of a shady ishgardian knight playing batman at night, then yes, there is suddenly a racial requirement.

_________________________

Now then to the OP, it would seem though that you are going for the ideals and the skills of the DRK right? I mean, your exiled DRK mentor is just here as a plot device to teach your character about playing batman and fixing evil where evil lurks, by using dark stuff the DRK usually use, correct?

I mean, is your character actually going to do that in Ishgard especially? As Virella said above, why would she do that here? It's actually a good point, since we now know what forged her into that (felt betrayed by her tribe, felt betrayed by Ishgard?), but now, what is her motivator? Where does she want to fight evil? Why? What are her motivations here?

Also, last thing I think... To avoid any timeline wonky issues or special snowflake stuff since we know that basically most Au'ri have come to Eorzea very recently since the fall of Dhoma... Maybe it would be best if you keep all that DRK initiation... recent actually. I think it might be best if your character is actually just starting to train under the mentor, or looking for another one?

Sounsyy · **06-01-2016, 06:40 PM**

(06-01-2016, 04:48 PM)Virella Wrote: The combo you want of race and job is simply neigh impossible. DRKs most likely will still have a hate against Au ra. I'm pretty sure they are probably one of the most fanatic folk when it comes down to hunting down what is 'wrong'. Au ra are wrong in the eyes in the Ishgardian.

Except that (at least one of) her backstories are quite similar to Sidurgu's own backstory of how he became a Dark Knight...?

Sidurgu Wrote:...I was about Rielle's age when I came to Ishgard. My parents, they...they said we would find a better life here. When the Temple Knights we had shown mercy returned, they let us choose the order in which we would die. That would be their mercy to us, they declared.

I watched my parents kneel in the dirt. â€œLook away,â€ they said. But I could not. At last, when it was my turn, I knelt and prepared to follow them into death. I closed my eyes...but when I opened them, a man in black stood before me, hand outstretched. And so I took it. â€œDefend the meek.â€ â€œPunish the wicked.â€ ...Mayhap it was all but a convenient excuse to indulge in vengeance. She deserves better than me. But there is no one else...

So an Ishgardian Dark Knight, the one Sidurgu refers to as his and Fray's "Master," rescued an Au Ra after witnessing Temple Knights slaughter an entire tribe. If the Dark Knights considered being Au Ra to be wrong, he would've stood by and done nothing. The code of the Dark Knight is to "Defend the meek. Punish the wicked." Not to uphold Ishgardian bias. In the 50-60 quests, Sidurgu risks his life to defend a small girl who is imbibed with dragon blood by her heretic father who attacked a church official. Clearly, what the typical Ishgardian views as right or wrong means very little to the Dark Knights.

Sidurgu Wrote:I...I swore an oath. To protect her. That's what we dark knights do... All that anger, all that rage...born of a fervent desire to protect that which we hold most dear.

Fray Wrote:Say a manâ”€a venerable, untouchable manâ”€harms a child in unspeakable ways. He strides through the Hoplon, secure in the knowledge that he is beyond punishment. But for one who cuts down that vile beast as he flaunts his freedom, who knows how many others will suffer?

Such was the dilemma faced by a goodly knight long ago. He knew that he would be stripped of his titles and denounced for the deed. The threshold we refuse to cross is a line we draw for ourselves. We fear the consequences, and people suffer for our indecision. Everyone who held that crystal came to conquer that fear, and became who they wanted to be. That knight was the first. Will you be the next?

Sidurgu Wrote:Given the circumstances under which you embarked upon this path, I fear you do not yet understand what it means to be a dark knight. The first of us bared steel against one of the clergyâ”€this is true. He sacrificed everything he once held dear in the name of justice. So must all who would walk in his footsteps. Mayhap you think this will earn you the love of the common man. You are wrong. To many, you will forever be a criminalâ”€a fiend who sows chaos and discord. These people will listen to the lies of our enemies. They will do their utmost to cast you outâ”€or worse.

Lodestone Wrote:The pious Ishgardian clergy guide the flock, and the devout knights protect the weak. Yet even the holiest of men succumb to the darkest of temptations.
None dare to administer justice to those sacrosanct elite residing outside the reach of the law. Who, then, defends the feeble from the transgressions of those meant to guide and protect them?

A valiant few take up arms to defend the downtrodden, and not even the holy priests and knights can escape their judgment. Pariahs in their own land, they are known by many as "dark knights." These sentinels bear no shields declaring their allegience. Instead, their greatswords act as beacons to guide the meek through darkness.

Virella · **06-01-2016, 06:57 PM**

She did say she didn't want to go for the cookie cutter backstory >_>? Or am I confused now?

Besides, I think we can safely say Sidurgu was the exception, not the standard for DRKs.

And Sidurgu arguable is still something doing with corrupt Ishgard nonsense.

Sounsyy · **06-01-2016, 07:34 PM**

(06-01-2016, 06:57 PM)Virella Wrote: She did say she didn't want to go for the cookie cutter backstory >_>? Or am I confused now?

Besides, I think we can safely say Sidurgu was the exception, not the standard for DRKs.

Sidurgu is obviously an exception, being one of two known Xaela to come to Eorzea in the last 100 years and survive for more than a year. But the issue was saying the race/job combination was impossible, which, obviously, it is not.

My understanding of the OP's backstory is that,
1- A former Ishgardian Dark Knight does something that gets him banished from Ishgard.
I think specifically she said he killed a high ranking knight or noble. This works in lore, as the first Dark Knight killed a member of the clergy. And that's seen to be the role model for the rest to follow apparently according to Fray and Sidurgu, and by extension their unnamed master. Let's assume this dark knight mentor of hers is Hyur or Elezen.

2- Said Dark Knight leaves Ishgard and goes... somewhere.
Again, something that is feasible. Where does the Dark Knight go, I don't think it was clarified? I'm assuming the Dark Knight left Eorzea all together and went to Othard, where he encountered the Tumet tribe and for whatever reason took a disliking to their ritual of leaving kids behind, I guess? To an Ishgardian who value their progeny, I guess I could see this as a cultural misunderstanding. Anyways, if said Dark Knight is in the Azim Steppes, kinda limits racial interactions to Xaela mostly. (Though there are hyur, lalafell, etc in the othardian city-states...)

3- Tumet child fails all or part of her trial, has some resentment towards her tribe, which goes into feeding the Abyss. Said Dark Knight mentor trains her to become a dark knight.
Because reasons, why not, stories have begun on much less.

And then she eventually comes to Eorzea for whatever reason. I'm not entirely sure if that's actually how the story goes, but that's what I understood from reading over everything. None of those points really stands out to me as impossible? Granted, its all more or less how she wants to play it, if she actually plays it, or whatever. On the other hand, she could just go the route of being a Xaela with a big sword like so many others. Which seems more "cookie cutter" to me?

Warren Castille · **06-01-2016, 07:40 PM**

The devil is in the details when it comes to backstories. One man's nuance is another man's distilled-down-to-base-details-from-tvtropes.

Caspar · **06-01-2016, 09:00 PM**

(06-01-2016, 06:37 PM)Valence Wrote: Also, last thing I think... To avoid any timeline wonky issues or special snowflake stuff since we know that basically most Au'ri have come to Eorzea very recently since the fall of Dhoma... Maybe it would be best if you keep all that DRK initiation... recent actually. I think it might be best if your character is actually just starting to train under the mentor, or looking for another one?

From what Sounsyy described it seems like Xaela being tolerated anywhere near Ishgard is a more recent thing, so contrary to what Virella said, younger might actually be easier to write. A recent immigrant backstory will require less explaining of how she avoided the massacre and perhaps subsequent smaller inquisitorial purges, or even how she managed to make it into the mostly closed off country in the first place.Â

That is assuming the character is going to perform their duties there, rather than simply take the skills and teachings of their mentor and apply them to other areas of Eorzea. I think a conflict between Free Paladins and Dark Knights would be very interesting, and it's a shame so much of the quest line is tied heavily into fighting the oppression of the Ishgardian clergy. If you're okay with the character still being a learner and her mentor being an active NPC rather than one from the past, this too could work.

(06-01-2016, 07:40 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: The devil is in the details when it comes to backstories. One man's nuance is another man's distilled-down-to-base-details-from-tvtropes.

Very true. It is why I think it's more useful to simply provide data and help the poster execute a concept that satisfies them, since their tastes and your own cannot necessarily be equated. I think a simple idea and a complex idea have no inherent good or bad qualities outside of how useful they are to the player.

Myself, I wouldn't refuse any of the proposed backgrounds RP if approached. Nothing stands out to me as far fetched at all. IMO what matters most is that all of the elements are important and nothing lacks purpose in the concept.

Gabineaux · **06-02-2016, 01:41 AM**

Honestly you've put more work in each of your drafts than most people put in their characters altogether, even with the possible lore flaws. Hats off to you for really wanting to get the lore spot on though. The lore in this thread has been good to read.

Zhu · **06-02-2016, 06:47 AM**

Quote:Now then to the OP, it would seem though that you are going for the ideals and the skills of the DRK right? I mean, your exiled DRK mentor is just here as a plot device to teach your character about playing batman and fixing evil where evil lurks, by using dark stuff the DRK usually use, correct?

That is correct!

Quote:I mean, is your character actually going to do that in Ishgard especially? As Virella said above, why would she do that here? It's actually a good point, since we now know what forged her into that (felt betrayed by her tribe, felt betrayed by Ishgard?), but now, what is her motivator? Where does she want to fight evil? Why? What are her motivations here?

My character's main drive is to challenge injustice without concern of what or who does the deed. She want to spare people from the same abuse she believe to have suffered and would to go to great lengths to do this. This side of my character have been there before I took an interest to the DRK job, which I chose because I believe it fits her like a glove. Philosophically speaking, that is. So in this case it's the character before the job. Perhaps that is the problem here for the most part.

As to where, my idea is that by not being a formally knighted DRK would allow her to travel and seek evil wherever it is, so I don't have a precisely detailed answer. She may have business anywhere, really. Because she have no ties to Ishgard and it is her mentor the one that should answer the question (the answer beign he got exiled).

Or atleast that is just an idea we are discussing and tuning regularly as lore and criticism comes up, I haven't actually role-played anything just yet so everything can still change overnight.

Quote:Also, last thing I think... To avoid any timeline wonky issues or special snowflake stuff since we know that basically most Au'ri have come to Eorzea very recently since the fall of Dhoma... Maybe it would be best if you keep all that DRK initiation... recent actually. I think it might be best if your character is actually just starting to train under the mentor, or looking for another one?

Caspar already gave a better answer than I possibly could make, but I believe it clashes against the whole thing since I am trying not to be glued to Ishgard in particular by branching out from a formal Ishgardian knighthood for the sake of a nomad one that follows the scent of evil.

That said this exiled mentor could have easily traveled to Othard and he and my character may only have moved to Eorzea recently as per the recent events. This is to avoid making my character a pre 3.0 Au'ra since it would be a bit too much on top of what she already is. I do agree that her training might be a recent thing. That she likely just finished her training and her travel to Eorzea is her first attempt at doing this on her own. I am hesitant to go with the "still in training" route because I am not confident in pulling it off. People will probably ask the where and when the training happens or even attempt to join the plot. And those simple questions suddenly becomes very complicated to answer to.

So things are as Sounsyy put it, pretty much.

Quote:Honestly you've put more work in each of your drafts than most people put in their characters altogether, even with the possible lore flaws. Hats off to you for really wanting to get the lore spot on though. The lore in this thread has been good to read.

Thank you! I am doing my best to make this work but it's more complicated than I originally thought. That said I am enjoying this debate and lore always comes first.

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Brainstorming an Au Ra Dark Knight origin. Need to be lore-checked.

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