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Morningstar1337 · **07-02-2016, 03:18 PM**

Okay I decided that my character would be a dabbler regarding Jobs that aren't BLM and AST as far as the current point in the story is concerned. With that in mind, I still want to retain he "Mastery" aspect, by having that be achieved sometime after the actual story ends (because having who is effectively a teenager mastering all Jobs as quickly as the game allows [and to some, at all] is problematic for the suspension of disbelief), as well as having her improve on those classes over time. Starting in HW, How long would it take do you think it takes someone learn and master a single class with or without the echo? a summer, 2 summer? 10?

Aya · **07-02-2016, 04:08 PM**

To be honest, you've used the term "master" in there, and I think the best answer is, "a life time".

***Maril*** · **07-02-2016, 04:19 PM**

Pretty much what Aya stated. As much as the game itself is geared towards having all classes on one character, you can't quite so easily do it IC'ly. I mean, sure, you can feasibly know perhaps a couple of classes (You can shave off some time by claiming they have a talent/affinity for the skill) - but mastery is not something someone obtains before their hair is grey. And even then I'd say you'd really be limited to one mastery per lifetime, with like a dedicated/focused effort. Even more so with magic, I would assume.Â

If you want to RP as someone who's got good knowledge and experience with more than one thing, it's a much more realistic option if you play a character that is up in the years - around thirty and there-above, depending on the skill.Â

That's at least my take on it.

Morningstar1337 · **07-02-2016, 04:22 PM**

(07-02-2016, 04:08 PM)Aya Wrote: To be honest, you've used the term "master" in there, and I think the best answer is, "a life time".

Fair enough, between level cap increases and ILevel boosts, It seems very unlikely that anyone can truely master more then 1 job at a time.

How about learning the basics, enough to dabble in a certain fields an to learn their strengths and weaknesses but not enough to achieve anything more then mediocre skill in those fields?

Morningstar1337 · **07-02-2016, 04:27 PM**

(07-02-2016, 04:19 PM)Nailah Wrote: If you want to RP as someone who's got good knowledge and experience with more than one thing, it's a much more realistic option if you play a character that is up in the years - around thirty and there-above, depending on the skill.Â

That's at least my take on it.

That is a coincidence, while I do have her at around 15 during Heavensward (tentatively) I was planning having her be 33 at least by the start of 4.0 (The implication being that she took to learning about the other combat arts after the Dragonsong war, with a talent in Black Magic to start, and branching out into Astromancy between 3.0 and 3.3)

***Maril*** · **07-02-2016, 04:38 PM**

(07-02-2016, 04:27 PM)Morningstar1337 Wrote:
(07-02-2016, 04:19 PM)Nailah Wrote: If you want to RP as someone who's got good knowledge and experience with more than one thing, it's a much more realistic option if you play a character that is up in the years - around thirty and there-above, depending on the skill.Â

That's at least my take on it.

That is a coincidence, while I do have her at around 15 during Heavensward (tentatively) I was planning having her be 33 at least by the start of 4.0 (The implication being that she took to learning about the other combat arts after the Dragonsong war, with a talent in Black Magic to start, and branching out into Astromancy between 3.0 and 3.3)

Well, we have it in a quest that between patch 2.2 and patch 3.2, roughly two years have passed which lines up pretty well with how much IRL time that has passed as well. I wouldn't be one to assume that 4.0 is going to happen 15+ years into the future, since we're already getting some hints to it's coming in the present MSQ.Â

There's also quite a lot of roleplayers who don't move time in the more comic-book-like bubble style or whichever you call it, but rather just follow the IRL time, so when they first start rping a character at such and such an age, the character follows irl time and doesn't age again until an actual rl year has passed. Depending on who you RP with, different understandings of time could cause some issues, just so you're aware.Â

You can browse this topic here as well for more stuff about time:Â
http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread....4#pid24942

Kilieit · **07-02-2016, 04:53 PM**

In my understanding, the reason why the Warrior of Light is able to master so many disciplines is:

a) Ridiculously privileged political position. As a result of Minfilia and the Grand Company leaders speaking directly and personally in your favour, you are introduced to the absolute masters of every discipline (the job mentors) and learn directly from them. These masters gift you "job stones" (aka soul crystals - that's a whole other lore dump on its own, one of which was posted quite recently in another thread of this forum if you go looking), which accelerate the learning process, but are rare artefacts that are in some cases quite closely guarded. If the Warrior of Light was not the Warrior of Light, it's highly unlikely that they would be introduced not just to one absolute master and one soul crystal, but multiple...

b) The Echo. This absolutely plays no small part in helping them to learn. The Echo is also known as "the power to transcend", because at its core, it's the power to make the boundaries of a man's soul mutable. Which means that if a powerful Echo user, who was gifted this particular Echo ability by Hydaelyn (polymathy - and not all Echo users are polymaths), spends enough time around the absolute masters and the semi-sentient soul crystals for a job, they'll start just magically being able to do the thing without having to sink the hours into learning it.

Without all of these things (a master mentor, a soul crystal, the political connections to be introduced to those things, and the Echo), well...

Think about how long it takes to become, say, a fully qualified doctor. Several years of medical school, several years of working as a student doctor, several years of gaining respect and prestige... then think about how long it takes to become a respected doctor. More decades of sleepless nights, possible divorces and loss of family as a result of putting the job first, no small amount of determination and intelligence. Then think about how long it takes to become a leader in the medical field, with published papers and maybe some academic awards or whatever. Not even a Nobel Prize, necessarily, just someone who's considered an authority.

Then apply that amount of time and level of commitment to every discipline you want your character to master.

Aurou · **07-02-2016, 09:59 PM**

^^^ This ^^^

Kilieit stated it spot on. Think in terms of RL and what it takes to be even considered 'good' in a profession. Years and years of practice and dedication, schooling, training, on the job training and shadowing of respected mentors. Even someone in their 30's might be young to have 'mastered' a single job role. When you're talking about several job roles, entirely different ones at that, to be believable that person would be pretty damn old. Look up Master Matoya if you haven't reached that far in the game yet. One of the few NPC's to be given the actual title of Master. She's very old and very respected.

From an IC perspective, if a teenager were to claim to be the master of anything my character would probably chuckle and humor them but never believe them. Echo, political connections, and the rest of those mentioned privileges that the WoL has at their disposal or not.

Valence · **07-03-2016, 04:45 AM**

We have examples of rather young geniuses all along History IRL. People that shouldn't normally be as skilled as they were in their thing. Absolutely brilliant minds, geniuses exist.

I suppose it always boils down to the usual: do you want to be the next Da Vinci, or just someone ordinary?

I don't mean that as derogatory though. Some RP circles actually want to play grand heroes like in many fantasy settings. There is nothing wrong with that. It's mostly a choice of theme and audience.

Coatleque · **07-03-2016, 09:10 AM**

It takes 10,000 hours of practice to achieve mastery in a field. Roughly 417 days of continuous practice if you never stop to sleep or live. Since that is physically impossible, it is safe to say 5 years on average.

http://www.wisdomgroup.com/blog/10000-ho...-practice/

Kellach Woods · **07-03-2016, 09:15 AM**

(07-02-2016, 04:53 PM)Kilieit Wrote: a) Ridiculously privileged political position. As a result of Minfilia and the Grand Company leaders speaking directly and personally in your favour, you are introduced to the absolute masters of every discipline (the job mentors) and learn directly from them. These masters gift you "job stones" (aka soul crystals - that's a whole other lore dump on its own, one of which was posted quite recently in another thread of this forum if you go looking), which accelerate the learning process, but are rare artefacts that are in some cases quite closely guarded. If the Warrior of Light was not the Warrior of Light, it's highly unlikely that they would be introduced not just to one absolute master and one soul crystal, but multiple...

To be fair, your status as the Warrior of Light has no bearing on the storylines of these quests. I can't think of a single class or job-related questline that actually directly references the MSQ beyond a few twists here and there if you've completed certain parts (I.E.: Being DRG and completing DRG 50 changes how a certain NPC is introduced to you).

If the WoL masters all classes, it is entirely through their WoLness and the Soul Crystals (except MCH) rather than being introduced to anyone via political means.

Kilieit · **07-03-2016, 02:37 PM**

(07-03-2016, 09:15 AM)Kellach Woods Wrote:
(07-02-2016, 04:53 PM)Kilieit Wrote: a) Ridiculously privileged political position. As a result of Minfilia and the Grand Company leaders speaking directly and personally in your favour, you are introduced to the absolute masters of every discipline (the job mentors) and learn directly from them. These masters gift you "job stones" (aka soul crystals - that's a whole other lore dump on its own, one of which was posted quite recently in another thread of this forum if you go looking), which accelerate the learning process, but are rare artefacts that are in some cases quite closely guarded. If the Warrior of Light was not the Warrior of Light, it's highly unlikely that they would be introduced not just to one absolute master and one soul crystal, but multiple...

To be fair, your status as the Warrior of Light has no bearing on the storylines of these quests. I can't think of a single class or job-related questline that actually directly references the MSQ beyond a few twists here and there if you've completed certain parts (I.E.: Being DRG and completing DRG 50 changes how a certain NPC is introduced to you).

If the WoL masters all classes, it is entirely through their WoLness and the Soul Crystals (except MCH) rather than being introduced to anyone via political means.

Well, what I mean is...

Is it likely that Random Average Adventurer #285964 Who Isn't Anything Special would express an interest in learning to use a lance, succeed in defeating an individual who plagued the entire Lancers' Guild for months without being defeated, and then - as a result of earning such trust - immediately be introduced to Alberic bloody Bale afterwards?

Or defeat a pirate who's evaded Limsa Lominsa's experienced pirate-capturing authorities for weeks, then be introduced to Y'mhitra, sister of Miss Big-Bloody-Deal Archon, as a spell-casting mentor (even if they weren't necessarily pursuing the route of SMN)?

The NPCs we meet and interact with to learn mastery of our roles from are, on the whole and with exceptions, major NPCs who are prestigious, busy, and very unlikely to be introduced to us unless we'd already achieved something remarkable.

The WoL achieves remarkable, outstanding things... for no apparent reason. We can only assume it's due to Hydaelyn's blessing. Almost every class mentor constantly, at almost every quest turn-in, mentions how incredibly quickly you're learning and how incredibly good you are at what they're teaching compared to novices of similar experience. Some quest chains even feature fellow novices being bitter and jealous towards you as a result, because it feels unfair. (And it is. It's just not something WoL has any control over.) And that's not even to mention the parts in MSQ where, when compared against adventurers of similar skill and experience, the WoL is shown to be far and away more likely to A) survive B) prevail, when challenging more-or-less any given enemy.

Anyway, here's the politics: due to achieving remarkable things, the WoL is granted recognition. The people of Eorzea - in this case, the class mentors - open doors for the WoL because the WoL is recognised; i.e., the job quests. The WoL utilises these doors to become better at what they already do.

This isn't an avenue that's open to regular adventurers. An average adventurer seeking to master the lance would join the Lancers' Guild, do drills, run missions, do some more drills, run some more missions, etc etc etc... for like. Several months, probably. And then maybe go back to adventuring, or maybe pursue status or rank within the guild itself for a year or two. It would take time and effort, and that time and effort wouldn't even necessarily pay off - certainly not in terms of being introduced to more advanced masters to learn from.

They wouldn't show up, literally magically learn all the skills they need in triple time, defeat a recurring antagonist that's troubled the experts for months, then - as a result of their heroic and outstanding deeds - be introduced to, again, Alberic parent-swiving Bale as a mentor for their continued education.

It doesn't have to be tied in to MSQ to be affected by status as the WoL, I don't think. The WoL achieves impossible things wherever they go, and that will always impact the opportunities available to them. The effects of being Hydaelyn's Chosen are way more far-reaching than what is mentioned in the MSQ.

Kaniko Niko · **07-03-2016, 02:44 PM**

One thing that it seemed that they were trying to go for, outside some of the new content, is that while the Player Character is something of a prodigy with being able to pick up so many skills it wasn't particularly atypical of an adventurerâ€”the kinds of people that dabble in everything.

However, it still seemed to make it quite clear that even though you're a prodigy, your superiors are just thatâ€”superior. One of the first guilds I joined was the Goldsmiths' and there are no less than two quests where Serendipity steps in to finish work beyond your level. Even the level 50 GSM quest where Serendipity declares you to be among the ranks of master goldsmiths? She chastises you for your actions in the quest and begs that next time, you leave it up to the professionals.

An acceptable timeframe for learning multiple classes?

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes