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LadyRochester · **07-06-2016, 07:29 AM**

So I've been tempted to start this RP where my character dying is a very real possibility (Considering my RNG has a tendency to take a shit on me). I will make it so that there's about a 50% chance of her dying, and others will have the chance (not certainty) to save her, should they really want to.

I am extremely excited about the idea, and so are a few of my friends and RP partners, others, however... Not so much.Â

Their reasoning doesn't seem to go beyond:
"BECAUSE I DON'T WANT MY CHARACTER TO BE SADD!!1!" So, I have a few questions for the RPC regarding character death.

1. Have you killed your character before?
2. How did your friends take it?
3. Would you not want to RP with someone who may unceremoniously kill off their character? Why?

Parth Makeo · **07-06-2016, 08:13 AM**

The closest I have been to killing my character was ceruleum poisoning after I think 2 months of exposure with no real sign until it was late. She was saved with treatment but it was fairly close.

But to answer the third, I don't mind rping someone killing their character off...I just don't care what you do with the character. It is your character.

What I personally have a problem with is character death as an excuse to remake/fantasia your character instead of making them an npc. That just is questionable. And I don't mean as if it was at the end of some plot or during a story. I mean a sudden "up imma kill this character cause I r bored with it!" idea.

LadyRochester · **07-06-2016, 08:16 AM**

(07-06-2016, 08:13 AM)Parth Makeo Wrote: The closest I have been to killing my character was ceruleum poisoning after I think 2 months of exposure with no real sign until it was late. She was saved with treatment but it was fairly close.

But to answer the third, I don't mind rping someone killing their character off...I just don't care what you do with the character. It is your character.

What I personally have a problem with is character death as an excuse to remake/fantasia your character instead of making them an npc. That just is questionable. And I don't mean as if it was at the end of some plot or during a story. I mean a sudden "up imma kill this character cause I r bored with it!" idea.

See, but why would it matter why someone kills off their character? Wouldn't it be the same result regardless of their reasoning? If I kill off my character, I'm remaking/fantasia-ing her into a whole new character, considering making alts in Balmung is too much of a hassle.

A person might still want to RP, even if their character winds up dead. Isn't it okay for them to try roleplaying something new? Or perhaps I'm not understanding. Tongue

Warren Castille · **07-06-2016, 08:22 AM**

Killing characters is one of those weird and divisive things that is either totally cool or totally disallowed with little wiggle room in the middle. It is any writer's right to eject their character from the fiction they've created but doing so can sometimes exhaust your partners and co-writers.

Death happens. In a world like Eorzea, it's a facet of life given the refugee crises, the war, and the general nature of the world being unsafe. Logically speaking, everyone should be prepared for loss. We aren't our characters, though: Depending on who you talk to some people have never lost a close friend unexpectedly or had room and time to grieve in advance in the course of elderly family members or something similar. Hell, some people never even lost a pet. Our characters might be inoculated to the horrors and expectations of a maybe-grim world but that doesn't mean the people behind the screens are.

A character's death can be jarring, especially if it comes suddenly as part of a plot climax. It's a majorly derailing experience if you treat it properly (and it should always be given the proper weight, in my opinion) that is more or less forcing a potentially-miserable time on others. You know how people say that suicide is the most selfish thing a person can do, because they just leave all the grief and misery behind for everyone else to handle? This is the writing equivalent to that (again, in my opinion). A character learning someone they knew and cared about, even just in a friendly capacity, is forced to either go through a grieving process - or - they can completely brush it off which can feel extremely out of character. Death is a major event, after all.

None of that is to say that it's a bad thing to experience. One of my most impacting roleplay experiences came from the sudden expiration of someone close to my character, and it changed him in a major way that I wouldn't have considered on my own prerogative. My character grew in ways I hadn't imagined because of someone else's plot, which is one of the big payoffs to collaborative RP (once more, in my opinion).

Me personally? I don't put too much stock into someone's character passing on, even if it is a sudden situation. The big challenge that I run into is when it becomes a thing that occurs often, and in different circles. Sasha's a networking-type character, correct? How would she handle it if in the span of a season she had to process one or two or three or four shocking, sudden plotline deaths? It can erode people in dangerous ways. It can be worse if you're involved with someone who rapidly introduces and then kills off characters; All of the angst and wearying mourning without any of the lasting reasons to be involved with someone. Again, how would you handle it if you met and lost several new people in your life, all in a year's time?

It can become difficult to put faith in a return on your time investment. To put it in extremely callous phrasing: If someone gets close to my character and dies unceremoniously or randomly within a short time, and then rerolls and does the same thing again, I would be weighing very carefully how much enjoyment I was getting compared to the emotional taxes and weights that were being applied to my character. Pointless death is the sort that doesn't even convey a sense of closure, and while we're not entitled to that in any capacity, in real life or otherwise, so there's very little satisfaction being on the receiving end of someone else's death.

tl;dr: It's an endeavor and can be a pain in the ass for everyone involved ICly and the person killing themselves OOCly, but it can also be handled well and done excellently. Don't make it a habit and people will probably be understanding.

LadyRochester · **07-06-2016, 08:28 AM**

(07-06-2016, 08:22 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: ((Post))

These are fantastic points. I wouldn't make it something sudden, and again, I will give people plenty of chances for the death to be avoided. It remains a possibility, but it won't come off as a terrible surprise when it does. The character that will be affected the most will likely be X'elo Maimhov, who has been her confidant/lover/best friends for around 3 years now. We discussed it, and he seems fine with it, but I can't imagine it will be a terribly fun thing to RP when/if it happens for others who took a liking to my character, especially if they know they could've done something about it but because of RNG/circumstances, they couldn't pull it off.

It's one of my major concerns, which is why I'm looking into this before making my character just die suddenly.

Virella · **07-06-2016, 08:42 AM**

1. Yes several. I come for a RP server where cockiness without skills, or social group, would get you killed. Also, adventures and combat had a real chance onto your character dying as well. GMs wouldn't purposely kill your character, but it happened quite often. Getting attached to a character was a huge mistake. That said, I get highly attached to certain roleplayers instead, for the better or worse due to it. I've made quite a few awesome friends due to it.

2.We all know our characters would die some time sooner or later. We would either laugh about how they died, or congratulate people for having a nice ending to a story. Mostly of the time it was the former. Gods, I can still remember throwing my mage at a dragon to save her comrades. She gone out with a blast, and It was awesome. Rerolling a new character however only took like 15 mins at best.

3. Their character their choices. I don't feel that it is much of a gain in a setting where people don't have a real chance to die to begin with. However, despite that, I do warn people that I may or may not kill Avelyn off due to the fact I don't see the merits of pushing her story beyond retaking Ala Mhigo. That is her main goal. There's only so many spin off chapters you can write you know? I did this with my Blood Knight in WoW as well. Their lore going to shits, I didn't like her concept any more, or the forced change of being 'evil' to 'good'. Redemption can be nice but... Meh.

That said, in Ave's case, if I find a reason for her to live. I will. It really depends for me personally whether the First of Rhalgr are going back to proper Destroyer worshippers (see H'raha Tia), or continue to try to form the new Justice League. Surely, I can find ways to work around it. Stray from the 'majority' of Fists, and continue to have her be stuck in the old ways. In truth, I'm mostly doing that anyhow beyond one other roleplayer.

But if the Fist of Rhalgr get completely reformed into such an absurd hippy cult defenders of the weak BS, Ave is most likely going to be axed. I really hope there will be still a sect, or whatever you want to call it, within the FoR who flat out refuses to let go of the old ways. Surely, I had people argue "but why don't you change her? It is character progression?" No, I won't, because playing the 'good guy' bores the living hell out of me. Unless Rhalgr Himself comes down and tells Ave to be a goody two shoe, she ain't going to be. I'd sooner see her story to an end then continue roleplaying something what I don't really see the purpose of any longer. I don't mind character progression, but there's only so much I can do without just going "who in the Seven Hells are you now?" Getting Ave to lay off the bottle, and stop snarking around is one of the things for example I'd see more mandatory at this point. But changing her completely? No, I won't do that. I honestly don't know if I will reach those two goals to begin with, as I don't force it myself, but instead let other roleplayers influence her on that department. Funnily enough, most case her to drink and grump even more. But I don't mind that either. It is... character progression in a backwards way? Anyhow...

I think that is what a lot of roleplayers tend to forget. Sometimes a character's purpose has been served. Yes, I've considered writing her into getting sidetracked, or get injured, but would Ave still be Ave then? No, not really. I don't mind the idea of character progression on her, not at all, but I don't want to break her core either. But. In the end, I'm going to do a wait and see. And the people surrounding Ave highly influence her as well to begin with; and my drive to kill or off or not. I don't want to lose the roleplay I have with people currently, but if the story of FFXIV gets pushed to the point it would break Ave as a character? No, I'd sooner reroll another character either due to killing her off, or simply retiring her.

That said, this is far from recent thoughts. I've warned people about this all the time as soon they get remotely close to Ave. The moment I made her, it was a decision I made about her story, and the possible end of it.

TL: DR; Vi likes playing zealots and kills characters her off when their organisation gets forced into a weird redemption plot lorewise. And ib4 people go "DONT KILL AVE OFF PLS" I really don't know yet.

Parth Makeo · **07-06-2016, 08:47 AM**

(07-06-2016, 08:16 AM)LadyRochester Wrote: See, but why would it matter why someone kills off their character? Wouldn't it be the same result regardless of their reasoning? If I kill off my character, I'm remaking/fantasia-ing her into a whole new character, considering making alts in Balmung is too much of a hassle.

A person might still want to RP, even if their character winds up dead. Isn't it okay for them to try roleplaying something new? Or perhaps I'm not understanding.

I mean as in death is a 100% excuse to make a new character as oppose to what you intend to do...an event. I had someone whisper me once they plan to kill their character just because they don't like rping the toon....offscreen. No send off or anything. Just suppose to accept the death without a chance to help.

Your way feels more considerate to those around you with a CHANCE to save but their failure will result in a character death. Thus making it interesting in the end.

In short: I hate people who off their character for no reason like a red shirt. Be more Spock or Kirk.

Parth Makeo · **07-06-2016, 08:51 AM**

(07-06-2016, 08:42 AM)Virella Wrote: And I think that is what a lot of roleplayers tend to forget. Sometimes a character's purpose has been served. Yes, I've considered writing her into getting sidetracked, or get injured, but would Ave still be Ave then? No, not really. I don't mind the idea of character progression on her, not at all, but I don't want to break her core either. But. In the end, I'm going to do a wait and see. And the people surrounding Ave highly influence her as well to begin with; and my drive to kill or off or not. I don't want to lose the roleplay I have with people currently, but if the story of FFXIV gets pushed to the point it would break Ave as a character? No, I'd sooner reroll another character either due to killing her off, or simply retiring her.

That said, this is far from recent thoughts. I've warned people about this all the time as soon they get remotely close to Ave. The moment I made her, it was a decision I made about her story, and the possible end of it.

And ib4 people go "DONT KILL AVE OFF PLS" I really don't know yet.

That is a very good reason too. If your character has been more or less done and over with you are free to kill them off of the situation and story seems it. Will be tragic since she may never get to her goal but it happens Sad

LadyRochester · **07-06-2016, 08:53 AM**

(07-06-2016, 08:47 AM)Parth Makeo Wrote: I mean as in death is a 100% excuse to make a new character as oppose to what you intend to do...an event. I had someone whisper me once they plan to kill their character just because they don't like rping the toon....offscreen. No send off or anything. Just suppose to accept the death without a chance to help.

Your way feels more considerate to those around you with a CHANCE to save but their failure will result in a character death. Thus making it interesting in the end.

In short: I hate people who off their character for no reason like a red shirt. Be more Spock or Kirk.

I might be a little too attached to this character OOC to give her a flat "LOL DED" ending, hence why I'd be doing it in an event. And yes, I can see where you come from, it can be especially painful if the character they suddenly kill off has established close relationships and such.

Have you experienced this before? How did you take it?

Warren Castille · **07-06-2016, 08:57 AM**

I think it's also worth defining the difference between dying in a dice or tabletop setting as opposed to a purely-storylined-completely-intentional sort of risk. You haven't truly lived until you've had Thaco Hitdice get punctured by orcs and went past -10HP, but that's part of the game. Collaborative writing isn't exactly the same medium.

Communication is the key, as with all things in RP really. If it's not a guaranteed "On the 30th I am going to murder my character in front of an orphanage by being consumed by wolves" then you're probably okay.

@Parth I feel kind of the same way. If a character becomes uninteresting or you want to change concepts, you don't HAVE to cash out and buy the farm in order to do so. Just... have your character go elsewhere (that's what was meant by becoming an NPC I think?) and reroll the new one. The same goal is served for the player in question, and it saves your social connections on that older character from having to get forced into that mourning thing I mentioned. It's not a bad thing, but it quickly gets tiresome when you're dealing with multiple sudden, tragic deaths in a short time frame.

Parth Makeo · **07-06-2016, 09:00 AM**

(07-06-2016, 08:53 AM)LadyRochester Wrote:
(07-06-2016, 08:47 AM)Parth Makeo Wrote: I mean as in death is a 100% excuse to make a new character as oppose to what you intend to do...an event. I had someone whisper me once they plan to kill their character just because they don't like rping the toon....offscreen. No send off or anything. Just suppose to accept the death without a chance to help.

Your way feels more considerate to those around you with a CHANCE to save but their failure will result in a character death. Thus making it interesting in the end.

In short: I hate people who off their character for no reason like a red shirt. Be more Spock or Kirk.

I might be a little too attached to this character OOC to give her a flat "LOL DED" ending, hence why I'd be doing it in an event. And yes, I can see where you come from, it can be especially painful if the character they suddenly kill of has established close relationships and such.

Have you experienced this before? How did you take it?

I will not named as I don't want to bring any attention to the individual...

I have experienced this before on Arala (who might I add is half retired and replaced with Quint) where one day I was casually rping with some people when I got this whisper from a close person of her's generally saying:

"I'm not having fun with this character so I'll kill him off."Â

Out of the blue. This character in his current position is living an ok life. No issues or suicide and is enjoying his life but then he just leaves a laundry list of what my character and all those close to him were suppose to flat out accept.

I gave him a plethora of options for his character to just be an NPC (because let's face it...this person was not doing much as is) and for him to kill his character off was more than insulting to everyone without any involvement or eyewitness.

This is what I call "spitting in the face of your friends." in RP. This made me really mad. Like angry. It was not natural nor given a chance to help at all..
In the end the character is still alive but the wound he left on me and a few others still sting to this day....even if he doesn't rp that much anymore.
(stupid phone spelling)

LadyRochester · **07-06-2016, 09:03 AM**

(07-06-2016, 08:57 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: I think it's also worth defining the difference between dying in a dice or tabletop setting as opposed to a purely-storylined-completely-intentional sort of risk. You haven't truly lived until you've had Thaco Hitdice get punctured by orcs and went past -10HP, but that's part of the game. Collaborative writing isn't exactly the same medium.

Communication is the key, as with all things in RP really. If it's not a guaranteed "On the 30th I am going to murder my character in front of an orphanage by being consumed by wolves" then you're probably okay.

@Parth I feel kind of the same way. If a character becomes uninteresting or you want to change concepts, you don't HAVE to cash out and buy the farm in order to do so. Just... have your character go elsewhere (that's what was meant by becoming an NPC I think?) and reroll the new one. The same goal is served for the player in question, and it saves your social connections on that older character from having to get forced into that mourning thing I mentioned. It's not a bad thing, but it quickly gets tiresome when you're dealing with multiple sudden, tragic deaths in a short time frame.

As I stated before, the possibility of her dying will depends on RNG, other player's actions, etc. As far as I'm concerned, the situation where she may die may not even happen in the first place, should a character do something to shift the story elsewhere, which is perfectly possible. A lot of people did not seem to appreciate the mere possibility of her dying though, which is where my concern stems from.

I'm still going to go with the plan, if the story progresses like I think it will, but I don't like stepping on the toes of those I RP with.

***Maril*** · **07-06-2016, 09:28 AM**

1. Have you killed your character before?
Yes, both when it comes to alts and mains.Â
I like to involve realism and improvisation in my RP, and the former is sometimes what drives the characters death. If there is a situation where nothing but divine intervention could save the character - then there are times where I have said, alright - fair game, and let the character die. (Note: This doesn't mean I'd let my characters die to a random street stabbing. If it's done by another's hand there has to be a substance to it, for me.)

The first character that was subjected to this was my former main in WoW, whom I played as a cultist - When I started playing her, I was fully accepting already then that they might not live for as long as a regular goody-two-shoes character. Her plot-arch involved certain degrees of insanity and extreme belief/faith in an old god, which eventually lead to careless/reckless behavior - thus allowing her enemies (the good guys) to come and kill her. In that same fight, there was also a character loss on the good-guy side, and it's one of the most interesting fights I've ever had.Â

Back then, through playing a main on the villain side of life, debates between the people who would chase us around Azeroth and ourselves were quite common. Mostly, we were continuously accused of playing OP characters with the simple reasoning that because our characters are evil they must die. To the hands of the good people of course, who in turn would accept no such thing as a death to their own character.
It wasn't the case for everyone of course, and very interestingly I did actually end up having requests from people who wanted their goody-two-shoes-character to die by the hands of one of my evil characters plots.Â

Sometimes I have also killed characters off because I knew I'd be leaving a game for good, or because I -really- wouldn't go back to the character (this often after having them on hiatus and trying to revamp them). Sometimes a character just has nothing left to give, especially if it's one you've played for years, and it feels natural to conclude them.
One of my personal biggest regrets for one character was not to kill it off sooner. I forced every bit of juice out of it, and looking back to the last few months of that character's life is a bit of a meh-experience.Â
In some of those cases, I have simply decided that the next time they get into a situation they can't get out of, then they would die. It retains a level of unpredictability for yourself and also keeps the moment of surprise intact for those around you.Â

2. How did your friends take it?

I've never experienced a negative backlash to one of my characters dying. I think, where I have roleplayed through times it's something that is seen as your own decision, and that if you make that decision then the rest will have to respect it. I think that, yes, if your character is a very close part of another character and you seem to sense that your characters death would push theirs into a turmoil beyond the "normal" reaction to death, then you should make sure they're on board with it and also discuss options for "damage control" so your friend doesn't burn out. But otherwise it's entirely up to the players themselves to decide what to do with their characters, and how to do it.Â

So in conclusion my friends have taken it well. I also think one of the big factors of their positive reactions is that I always stick with the decision. There's no do-overs, no magically returning from the dead nonsense, even if I regret killing them off. I know that with time I will once again design a character that I'll love and adore (and subject to horrible things).Â

3. Would you not want to RP with someone who may unceremoniously kill off their character? Why?

As mentioned above, I consider it to be the players own decision. The only way I'd get a little miffed is if the player repeatedly killed the character and then went "HAHA NOT REALLY", because being stuck in a loop like that is exhausting. It also drains the storytelling value of a character death to a minimal, more of a "Oh he died again, bleh" reaction than character developing effects. Even an unceremonious death can leave good developing material for those around you.

Oyuu · **07-06-2016, 09:41 AM**

1. Have you killed your character before?
I haven't, but I've had a roleplay partner kill their character that mine was romantically involved with, so I can give a little insight to what happened with the characters that had to deal with the person's death.Â

2. How did your friends take it?
Basically, before our characters even held hands, my roleplay partner at the time informed me OOCly he was killing off his character come Heavensward to race change to an Au Ra. This was six months??? before the release of the expansion, so he basically gave me an out if I wasn't interested in roleplaying a romantic relationship with a character that will die.Â

I chose to keep RPing with him, we basically worked together to create a story arc that would lead to his death in a satisfying way that would give good character development (my character never had a person he knew die on him before, and then there was the task of getting revenge on his lover's murderer, just for example.) We informed FC friends and those who RPed with us as we went along that this was going to happen so they could choose to get involved or not, and there was only a few joking tears luckily.Â

Roleplaying it was fine, but there was an issue later with the player missing his deceased character and wanting to play him again, despite it being impossible to have him revived, so please take this into consideration. Are you truly fine with killing your character off? Because it's pretty irreversible and you'll piss everyone off by retconning a shitload or coming up with a bogus excuse of why he's back.Â

3. Would you not want to RP with someone who may unceremoniously kill off their character? Why?
Not really. I've had a few other friends who just completely written off a character several times because they did not like them, they were problematic, etc. without informing the FC they were in or the people they RPed with. This especially hurt when I took time to roleplay with their character, hours of chatting and getting to know them, then the next day I find out they were no longer present in the living world. How do I and my character even react to that? Do I just retcon knowing them at all, or should my character be worried they have gone missing? I stopped roleplaying seriously with those players because I couldn't be bothered getting to know a character then having them disappear without a word and having to mourn another 'death'.Â

Like most roleplay things, OOC communication is key. Get in touch with those people your character is well acquainted with, your FC and roleplay linkshells and let them know what's up. Do you know the reasons why people are hesitant you're killing off your character possibly? Are they afraid of you not RPing with them any longer when you roll your new character? Some people just don't like roleplaying sad shit, and someone dying is really sad. But, it's your character at the end of the day so do what makes you happy even if it involves murder, you have every right to say "well this happened, so tough shit."

Noxtis316 · **07-06-2016, 10:13 AM**

1. Have you killed your character before?
Yes, in other games and it is when the storyline gives an opening. Otherwise, I deal with wounds that have my characters slowed if they can move but restricted to cities.
Granted, I also had a name changer or something that changes the appearance and name as a whole. Because those that I've RPed with this recognize that being pulled from the state of death may have unwanted effects- (When it is apart of the system. Like BRP, Runequest, D&D...) like extreme bitterness or apathy (on top of resurrection sickness.)

Edit: The name changers or things that change appearance for those characters who are either a high level or it's a hassle to create characters on a server.

2. How did your friends take it?
Well. OOCly my friends took it just fine. Only because I can tell the OOCly what sort of thing I am planning and they spurred me on. ICly their characters were in mourning for a while.

I don't do it if friends would be so OOCly upset. Because death is powerful, and depending on what is going on- it might not be the best thing to do.

3. Would you not want to RP with someone who may unceremoniously kill off their character? Why?

Honestly. I prefer it being a part of a story. I've had people do it for the reason for 'I am bored', that they just want to reset all the ties to them, Â or to incite drama/get attention.

Death happens. I'm just iffy on the unceremoniously killing off a character. I'd still RP with the person and the character that may come around after, just...Eh- sometimes I just brush off what is iffy to me personally.

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