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Arashin Kujqai · **09-15-2017, 10:44 PM**

So I've had a habit for a while that Ive been wanting to break/fix and I've taken multiple routes about it. The issue is when I feel in my writing that I repeat some sentences or phrasing far too often in nearly the same structures. Like trying to make a character sound whimsical or mysterious, I may structure a sentence to sound like "such would be the fate of etc etc" and then I tend to notice I'll say something the very same way soon after or again slightly later on in the session.

Or for example I'll overuse certain vocabulary in an attempt to make the character sound more intelligent but in doing so I end up reusing that word possibly 2-5 times.

I've looked into the fun prompts section occasionally and I've used a website that provides a word each day that I figure I could inoculate(thanks for that one merriam webster lol) more interesting vocabulary into my character's speak. However the latter seems to have me often forgetting to keep these words into my vocabulary or even occasionally having to google to confirm the definition is even correctly being used in the context.

I feel as though an easy answer would be just to simply get a better English education in general and etc but it feels a tad bit minute to me for some reason. I'm not really attempting to have top grade literature or be an absolute expert in my native language but I would like to give it some varying color so I don't feel silly writing similar sentence structures in the same sessions(and in some cases, with the same people over multiple sessions). So I suppose I'm asking, do you have any tools or use any sources that could help improve your writing or that you use to deal with situations like this? Any resources that could maybe get the mojo for writing kick started or help solidify a vocabulary to be more colorful? In general any sources/resources you use that aid with overall writing would be appreciated. I know that practice makes perfect too, so RP'ing more often may be a decent solution, but I wouldn't mind alternative solutions as well.

I wish it was as simple as just looking at a thesaurus every so often to replace words as I type too. That always feels like a temporary fix or a quick fix rather than something that would actually help me improve. Kinda like sneaking a peek at a neighbor's test answers in school; just writing what they have because it'll be correct rather than understanding it and implementing the answers through your own intuition and comprehension.

Verad · **09-16-2017, 01:44 AM**

Solving this is a long-term process that is as much about literary osmosis as it is conscious effort. Expand your understanding of other possibilities by reading outside of your literary comfort zone as much as possible.

Nebbs · **09-16-2017, 03:48 AM**

I would say don't fret so much. Most folk wont ever notice this and instead be focused on the RP flow. Perhaps if you are RPing with those who put literary excellence high up on their list of desires then it would be an issue.

If it bugs you then fine get to fixing it, but I would not worry about others.

I have the worst English, because reasons, though it tends to be of a spelling/typo nature. It does bug me when I do it too much, often when I am really into and excited about the RP. I just have to slow down, use a word processor then cut and paste my responses.

Maybe just adding something like that in would give you that time to just self-check what you are writing before posting.

Yian Kutku · **09-16-2017, 03:58 AM**

(09-15-2017, 10:44 PM)Arashin Kujqai Wrote: I wish it was as simple as just looking at a thesaurus every so often to replace words as I type too. That always feels like a temporary fix or a quick fix rather than something that would actually help me improve. Kinda like sneaking a peek at a neighbor's test answers in school; just writing what they have because it'll be correct rather than understanding it and implementing the answers through your own intuition and comprehension.

I actually do use a thesaurus (well, Thesaurus.com) quite often when writing up RP or stories. It's surprisingly helpful, especially when you kind of have a word in mind, but it doesn't quite fit exactly. Using a thesaurus is more of being able to find a better word for the situation, rather than a horizontal progression of alternate words.

I'll echo the sentiment of improvement through exposure. Read, read, and read even more. One tip to keep in mind is to notice how something is said, rather than merely what is said. What words can you cut out to make the sentence tighter? What words can you add in to provide more colour?

You can use in-game dialogue as your examples as well. Merlwyb, Eynzahr, and Baderon are all Lominsans, but they speak in very different styles. In fact, I'd recommend rewatching cutscenes and making note of how the characters speak. Why was this sentenced phrased as such? Why use this word, instead of another?

Doing so might be a bit too much like homework, though. The suggestion to just read a lot is more relaxing.

Arashin Kujqai · **09-16-2017, 09:08 AM**

Yeah, taking out what NPC's say has helped but it does get to be odd when you realize how different they speak as far as accents and culture goes. I guess it's just a slow process to fix through a lot of reading, it's really more for myself than others tbh. I know others don't mind it too much, it's just one of those things that bugs me to see too often. Especially if it starts to make the character's speech pattern predictable in it's flow.

After playing through the MSQ a 2nd time (some skips here and there around cutscenes, guilty), I'm always discovering how much more NPC's speak than some RP'ers even do. Aphinaud's vocabulary for example loves to be expansive but then again, he's the "lil diplomat".

Erah'sae · **09-18-2017, 12:06 PM**

For the vocabulary while reuse happens, it's not necessarily a bad thing. Â You'll find, if you look closely, that there are speech patterns in most people's dialog. Â

Our characters should have speech patterns just like regular people. Â They will have their phrases they go to by default quite frequently. Â While not using the same phrase thrice may seem more interesting I'd suggest avoiding it unless the there is some reason for the alternate word/phrase usage.

As far as expanding yours the best way I can think of involves two things.

a.) which has been stated a lot. Â Read. Â Read read read read. Â Read things you're not familiar with and try to find authors from a variety of cultures. Â

a.) Immerse yourself in different communities. Â I'd suggest doing this more in real life then in game if you can. Â Go hit up some events you normally wouldn't. Â Drop into a museum or a free art show. Â Maybe go help out for an afternoon in a soup kitchen. Â Go there in person, talk to people and pay attention to not just what they say, but how they say it. Â It's literary research!

As an aside, beware of the thesaurus for it sometimes lies.Â
I'm going to pick on you a little here. Â Don't take it personally it's just because you gave the perfect example and I'm too lazy to find another one.

"Â I've used a website that provides a word each day that I figure I could inoculate(thanks for that one merriam webster lol)Â more interesting vocabulary into my character's speak. "

While the online dictionaries and thesaurus give literally definitions they often leave out the contextual usages of said word. Â For example the use of 'inoculate' where pertains to the mind is regarding the hardening against or biasing towards concepts and ideals instead of something like adding new facts or vocabulary words.Â

Ex: You want to inoculate yourself against the habit of reusing the same word or phrase.

Arashin Kujqai · **09-18-2017, 02:32 PM**

(09-18-2017, 12:06 PM)Erah Wrote: For the vocabulary while reuse happens, it's not necessarily a bad thing. Â You'll find, if you look closely, that there are speech patterns in most people's dialog. Â

Our characters should have speech patterns just like regular people. Â They will have their phrases they go to by default quite frequently. Â While not using the same phrase thrice may seem more interesting I'd suggest avoiding it unless the there is some reason for the alternate word/phrase usage.

As far as expanding yours the best way I can think of involves two things.

a.) which has been stated a lot. Â Read. Â Read read read read. Â Read things you're not familiar with and try to find authors from a variety of cultures. Â

a.) Immerse yourself in different communities. Â I'd suggest doing this more in real life then in game if you can. Â Go hit up some events you normally wouldn't. Â Drop into a museum or a free art show. Â Maybe go help out for an afternoon in a soup kitchen. Â Go there in person, talk to people and pay attention to not just what they say, but how they say it. Â It's literary research!

As an aside, beware of the thesaurus for it sometimes lies.Â
I'm going to pick on you a little here. Â Don't take it personally it's just because you gave the perfect example and I'm too lazy to find another one.

"Â I've used a website that provides a word each day that I figure I could inoculate(thanks for that one merriam webster lol)Â more interesting vocabulary into my character's speak. "

While the online dictionaries and thesaurus give literally definitions they often leave out the contextual usages of said word. Â For example the use of 'inoculate' where pertains to the mind is regarding the hardening against or biasing towards concepts and ideals instead of something like adding new facts or vocabulary words.Â

Ex: You want to inoculate yourself against the habit of reusing the same word or phrase.

I thought one of the variations of it meant to introduce?

[Image: xCUt3.png]

In any case, I still welcome the advice XD, did kinda feel a lil off. I guess I shouldn't worry too much about it.

Valence · **09-18-2017, 02:41 PM**

It's even funnier when it's not your native language.

Gegenji · **09-18-2017, 02:42 PM**

(09-18-2017, 02:32 PM)Arashin Kujqai Wrote: I thought one of the variations of it meant to introduce?

In any case, I still welcome the advice XD, did kinda feel a lil off. I guess I shouldn't worry too much about it.

... It means it in a medical term, yes; or, at least from the definitions there. Introducing a culture to build up an immunity. Like how you get your shots that are actually, like, small or dead cultures of a disease to help your body prepare to combat it.

I've never seen it used in the terms of language usage, though. Wouldn't that be, like... using bits of slang so that you're not thrown off by those darn kids who use all the slang? Dazed

More on point for the topic, though, I don't see being a bit repetitive as being bad. At worst, you or your friend poke light fun at using a word over and over again and you move on. I feel that trying to be too eclectic in your word choice sometimes just makes things all the more confusing and require far more work.

Sometimes speaking simply is best. You can enunciate and dictate and imply... but sometimes it's enough just to say. That's my two cents anyway. Thumbsup

Erah'sae · **09-18-2017, 03:02 PM**

But yeah, it does mean to introduce even if not really spoken that way often, but it's just an odd thing.

Yeah, I wouldn't worry much about it. Â It was just more a 'be careful' point than anything else. Â I've gotten burned by doing this myself at least a couple of times.

Edit: And there I go throwing 'yeah' in twice when I quickly type something out. Heh. Yay for repetition and self cliches!

Erah'sae · **09-18-2017, 03:11 PM**

(09-18-2017, 02:42 PM)Gegenji Wrote: I feel that trying to be too eclectic in your word choice sometimes just makes things all the more confusing and require far more work.

I knew I forgot to go into something in my post. Thanks for bringing this up.

There's a line with that. Â Most of us are on one side. Â Urianger is often on the other.

Going overboard on the esoteric or eclectic for a character dialect is fun at times. Â If you do though, just be consistent with it. Â It can give a bit of a hook to draw some folks into interaction with your character while they try and sort the eccentricities. Â As long as it is consistent the regulars you interact with will come to learn the turns of phrase and won't even have to think about it anymore.

Initial joke aside, I love how they handle Urianger. Â He's an example of excessive eclecticism (does that word work for language theory?) but they make him work through consistency.

edit: one day I'll quit botching this system's quote structure...

Yian Kutku · **09-18-2017, 03:26 PM**

(09-18-2017, 02:32 PM)Arashin Kujqai Wrote: In any case, I still welcome the advice XD, did kinda feel a lil off. I guess I shouldn't worry too much about it.

Maybe you were thinking of "inculcate"?

In any case, I've noticed that SF&F as a genre tends to be less reluctant to use little-seen vocabulary, although this obviously depends on the writer.

This is especially the case for FFXIV's English localization, which occasionally goes overboard with eye-watering words. For example, I hadn't known what "sternutation" meant until I did the Moogle quests.

Arashin Kujqai · **09-18-2017, 05:53 PM**

(09-18-2017, 03:26 PM)Yian Kutku Wrote:
(09-18-2017, 02:32 PM)Arashin Kujqai Wrote: In any case, I still welcome the advice XD, did kinda feel a lil off. I guess I shouldn't worry too much about it.

Maybe you were thinking of "inculcate"?

In any case, I've noticed that SF&F as a genre tends to be less reluctant to use little-seen vocabulary, although this obviously depends on the writer.

This is especially the case for FFXIV's English localization, which occasionally goes overboard with eye-watering words. For example, I hadn't known what "sternutation" meant until I did the Moogle quests.

First thing that comes to mind for me is "chirurgeon" which I pronounced "chee-roar-geon" only to learn it's nothing at all like that lmao. FF14's definitely introduced or reminded me of words that are rarely used in modern day english.

Kilieit · **09-18-2017, 06:34 PM**

(09-18-2017, 05:53 PM)Arashin Kujqai Wrote: First thing that comes to mind for me is "chirurgeon" which I pronounced "chee-roar-geon" only to learn it's nothing at all like that lmao. FF14's definitely introduced or reminded me of words that are rarely used in modern day english.

Hahaha I did a little crash course for my friend on French pronunciations of words (i.e. why Haurchefant is pronounced like "Ow-she-von" and not "Hor-che-vant"), and they eagerly said, "So it's pronounced like shy-rue-jhio', right?" No... no it's not. xD (It's kye-roo-jen.)

ANYWAY - I often find myself using eclectic words when I write. But here's the thing: it's not for the sake of it... in other words, I don't use those words because I think not using them is bad, or out of trying to achieve some specific literacy level with my vocabulary.

I use those words because I know what they mean, and their meaning best encompasses what I'm trying to say at the moment. In other words, the goal is clear communication... and... like others have said, actually, sometimes it falls flat, because the other person has to go search up what I mean and break the flow of the RP. I've been accused before - a long time ago, in a fandom far, far away - of deliberately making my use of language impenetrable to others out of elitism (no, I just talk like that; I'm sorry!!). So there's little pros and cons, really.

I do find that my vocabulary use sometimes fluctuates along with other things when I'm writing different characters, though, even if it's just a description emote. If I'm on Cinu-a (my illiterate tough-guy type), I use short sentences with little, simple words, and longer words only come about as "centre-pieces" (so they get repeated a lot! Because they're the focus of the description!). However, if I'm on Confiance (my inexorably chatty mega-nerd), ALL the complex vocab comes out to play. Usually all at once, much to the consternation of others around him.

I guess... if you want to improve your vocabulary, there are ways to do so! As the others have described above (seriously, read). But the reason to improve your vocabulary is to expand your literary toolbox! It doesn't necessarily mean that the wonderfully obscure multisyllabic word you learned last week will actually be useful in the roleplay you're doing today. You might still end up using the same simple word, over and over again... because that's the word that best fits the situation, or the character, or whatever. But at least by expanding your vocabulary, the situations you find yourself unable to describe will be fewer.

Zhavi · **09-18-2017, 06:59 PM**

I won't repeat what others have said, but, half the battle with self-editing and improving (or broadening) your writing is simply being self aware.

You're noticing the repeats. Good. That's a positive trait to have, and the more you're aware, the better you can get at catching yourself and changing things as they happen. If there are words or phrases in particular that you use, then practice or think about other ways to use those words/phrases. Make use of rp/writing buddies, ask how they'd phrase things. Too, sometimes it can be fun to write in certain tics or phrasing that a character might use; I have Tani use 'um' or 'uh' a lot, and for Zhi it was often a 'read me?' or 'yeah?' at the tail end of sentences (and in descriptions, I'd often reuse certain phrases about how she smelled because I wanted a certain kind of consistency and I wanted to stamp it in peoples' minds). Zuri I'll reuse posturing or the way she looks at people and away, because her body language/word choice can be sometimes obtuse, and I want to reward my writing buddies for correctly identifying what some of those things mean without making it too complex for them (or, their character misunderstanding something, which makes intricate scenes all the more fun). Not to say that I don't change it up, but body language can be horrendously complex, and neither I nor they are interested in tons of paragraphs about all the micro expressions a person is capable of making. Shortcuts.

Repetitiveness can be a tool to use as much as a weakness to correct -- be thoughtful when you see it in your writing and don't just habitually stamp it out, you know?

Also sometimes like someone uses a word or I remember a word that's awesome and wind up reusing it a bunch because in that moment (hours? days?) I'm in love with it and there is no better word. I forgive myself for those, because I'm having fun, dammit.

...also, words that I picked up via thesaurus years ago I still use today. Not all of them, but at the least it broadened my vocabulary. Ain't nothing wrong with learning more words.

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[Discussion] Tools for fixing RP habits/improving?

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes