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Selsix · **08-04-2013, 03:22 AM**

Quote:
(08-04-2013, 02:55 AM)Selsix Wrote:
(08-04-2013, 02:47 AM)Sounsyy Wrote: Also I know dual wielding is extremely popular from FFXI, but it won't happen in FFXIV because of materia.

Not necessarily my friend.

An MMO I played a few years back by the name of R.O.S.E. Online had a very simple answer to this very same problem.

They made dual swords a SINGLE item.

Instead of equipping two different swords, you would equip one item that is a PAIR of swords. Thus solving the itemization issue altogether, as well as the armoury confliction problem

LOL I literally said that in order for dual wielding to work they would have to do this in the exact same paragraph that you quoted from.

(08-04-2013, 02:47 AM)Sounsyy Wrote: Also I know dual wielding is extremely popular from FFXI, but it won't happen in FFXIV because of materia. If you have two equippable weapons that doubles the amount of materia you can stack into one stat. Which would make it incredibly OP.Â If they implement "dual wielding" for say like THF or NIN, it will be in the same fashion as PGL/MNK has dual wield. A single main hand weapon that places a weapon in each hand on the character.

Welp, color me retarded. Point is we came to the same conclusion.Â Tongue

LeCard · **08-04-2013, 03:33 AM**

(08-04-2013, 03:20 AM)Sounsyy Wrote:
(08-04-2013, 03:08 AM)Azthran Wrote: I think BLU could still use 1 handed swords kind of like how both Conj and Thaum can both use 2 handed staffs. If I'm not mistaken the relic weapons for both WHM and BLM are staffs so I don't see why they couldn't add another set of swords with the BLU tag on it.

The difference is that Conjurer and Thaumaturge are given specific qualifications and boundaries for the weapons that they use. And Gladiators are not. Gladiators are given a blanket green light on all single handed blades. Unless they change that lore to say something more specific, it will remain true and prevent new classes from using single-handed swords.

-Conjurers mustÂ use wands and staves made from unworked wood.Â

-Thaumaturges must use scepters and staves made from metals, ores, or bone, and require a gemstone through which to channel their aether.

-"Gladiators specialize in the handling of all manner of one-handed blades, from daggers to longswords, be they single- or double-edge, straight or curved."

Quoted straight from theÂ Main Site GladiatorÂ page. You're basically asking FFXIV to retcon the basic concept of Gladiator just so that Blue Mage can have a scimitar. Why not a whip? It's a much more appropriate weapon and it doesn't currently exist in Eorzea.

This does mean that any future sword wielding class would either need to be two handed or share their weapon with GLD. Now, one way that they could work this would be to have the special weapon (be it scimitar, rapier etc.) grant a special bonus/ penalty to the new class/GLD respectively. This would make it disadvantageous for a GLD to wield a scimitar, but would not prevent them from equipping it.

However, you run into the further problem that the main hand weapon function as the " I am switching classes" button. To fix this you could give the new class a different main hand item that functions more like a shield and have them equip the scimitar in the off hand(effectively making them all leftys). But deciding on a main item that works for all the classes future jobs could be quite troublesome.

For those reasons I think that it is highly unlikely that they would give them an already existing weapon, unless it is made into a job instead of a class. all future classes will come with a new weapon, yoshi p. has basically if not explicitly said this already.

So I would have to agree with Sou on this one, either they will have to retcon GLD being able to use all one handed blades, or no other class will ever be released with a one handed blade.

Edit: don't forget about the gun option for blue mages, that is still a possible route.

Selsix · **08-04-2013, 03:39 AM**

(08-04-2013, 03:33 AM)LeCard Wrote: This does mean that any future sword wielding class would either need to be two handed or share their weapon with GLD. Now, one way that they could work this would be to have the special weapon (be it scimitar, rapier etc.) grant a special bonus/ penalty to the new class/GLD respectively. This would make it disadvantageous for a GLD to wield a scimitar, but would not prevent them from equipping it.

However, you run into the further problem that the main hand weapon function as the " I am switching classes" button. To fix this you could give the new class a different main hand item that functions more like a shield and have them equip the scimitar in the off hand(effectively making them all leftys). But deciding on a main item that works for all the classes future jobs could be quite troublesome.

For those reasons I think that it is highly unlikely that they would give them an already existing weapon, unless it is made into a job instead of a class. all future classes will come with a new weapon, yoshi p. has basically if not explicitly said this already.

So I would have to agree with Sou on this one, either they will have to recon GLD being able to use all one handed blades, or no other class will ever be released with a one handed blade.

I would have to agree. This is why I pitched the idea of Gunblades for Blue Mages.

However, it was also pointed out that this one wasn't a niche fit. Given that? I feel that (as suggested before) whips are a GREAT idea for a BLU if they are to be implemented.

Or you could even go the FFX route, and make them a branch job from Lancers that uses polearms. Either one would work. (I'm in favor of whips, specifically bladed ones)

Where do I sign?

Azthran · **08-04-2013, 04:01 AM**

(08-04-2013, 03:33 AM)LeCard Wrote:
(08-04-2013, 03:20 AM)Sounsyy Wrote:
(08-04-2013, 03:08 AM)Azthran Wrote: I think BLU could still use 1 handed swords kind of like how both Conj and Thaum can both use 2 handed staffs. If I'm not mistaken the relic weapons for both WHM and BLM are staffs so I don't see why they couldn't add another set of swords with the BLU tag on it.

The difference is that Conjurer and Thaumaturge are given specific qualifications and boundaries for the weapons that they use. And Gladiators are not. Gladiators are given a blanket green light on all single handed blades. Unless they change that lore to say something more specific, it will remain true and prevent new classes from using single-handed swords.

-Conjurers mustÂ use wands and staves made from unworked wood.Â

-Thaumaturges must use scepters and staves made from metals, ores, or bone, and require a gemstone through which to channel their aether.

-"Gladiators specialize in the handling of all manner of one-handed blades, from daggers to longswords, be they single- or double-edge, straight or curved."

Quoted straight from theÂ Main Site GladiatorÂ page. You're basically asking FFXIV to retcon the basic concept of Gladiator just so that Blue Mage can have a scimitar. Why not a whip? It's a much more appropriate weapon and it doesn't currently exist in Eorzea.
This does mean that any future sword wielding class would either need to be two handed or share their weapon with GLD. Now, one way that they could work this would be to have the special weapon (be it scimitar, rapier etc.) grant a special bonus/ penalty to the new class/GLD respectively. This would make it disadvantageous for a GLD to wield a scimitar, but would not prevent them from equipping it.

However, you run into the further problem that the main hand weapon function as the " I am switching classes" button. To fix this you could give the new class a different main hand item that functions more like a shield and have them equip the scimitar in the off hand(effectively making them all leftys). But deciding on a main item that works for all the classes future jobs could be quite troublesome.

For those reasons I think that it is highly unlikely that they would give them an already existing weapon, unless it is made into a job instead of a class. all future classes will come with a new weapon, yoshi p. has basically if not explicitly said this already.

So I would have to agree with Sou on this one, either they will have to recon GLD being able to use all one handed blades, or no other class will ever be released with a one handed blade.

I had made an edit to my post while they had replied to it already. All I'm saying is that specializing in something doesn't make it exclusive to you, it just means you are really good with it. I'll use thief as a theoretical example. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to assume thief would use daggers, daggers fall under the gladiator's realm of 1 handed blades that they specialize in. Now thief could dual wield daggers using the pugilist/monk mechanic of 1 item but 2 weapons and for arguments sake lets say they are also classified as Dual Daggers. This wouldn't cause any problems in keeping the classes separate or accidental class switching or confusion but would still allow the thief to use daggers.

Anyways my point is just that specializing in something isn't the same as something being exclusive.Â

As for why some of us would like to see BLU using a sword? I can only speak for myself as I had a great time playing BLU in 11 and I don't think it would be too much of a stretch to believe that if it came to 14 that it would have similarities to the BLUs from 11. With that said Bard in 14 is nothing like it was in 11 so yeah sometimes things change or work differently than what we'd like or expect.

Sounsyy · **08-04-2013, 04:31 AM**

(08-04-2013, 04:01 AM)Azthran Wrote: Anyways my point is just that specializing in something isn't the same as something being exclusive.

In FFXIV it is though. If one class can use it, no other class can. This is a rule of the armoury. So with lore stating that GLA specializes in allÂ single handed blades, the armoury system makes all blades exclusive to GLA. And again, since SE goes out of their way to include every conceivable type of blade in the description, this is likely an intentional design.

As for Thief daggers, my theory is that they will be dual daggers that are backwards oriented like in FFIX. Unlike the forward facing daggers of FFXI. This would also better feed into the Thief class becoming Ninja. Or a Scout class branching into both Thief and Ninja. Thief and Ninja both use backwards oriented daggers.

synaesthetic · **08-04-2013, 04:50 AM**

Whips... no. Just... no.

Azthran · **08-04-2013, 04:52 AM**

(08-04-2013, 04:31 AM)Sounsyy Wrote: As for Thief daggers, my theory is that they will be dual daggers that are backwards oriented like in FFIX. Unlike the forward facing daggers of FFXI. This would also better feed into the Thief class becoming Ninja. Or a Scout class branching into both Thief and Ninja. Thief and Ninja both use backwards oriented daggers.

Isn't that a contradiction though? They are still 1 handed bladed weapons, you just have two of them and hold them differently. I'm curious to what makes it okay for another class to use daggers, by your definition one of the weapons that is exclusive to gladiators, and not for another class to be able to use a sword? I'm speaking strictly from a lore perspective here.

synaesthetic · **08-04-2013, 04:58 AM**

The fact that gladiators use daggers at all is inane. I felt like a moron tanking with a letter opener in Phase 3. Undecided

LeCard · **08-04-2013, 05:02 AM**

(08-04-2013, 04:58 AM)synaesthetic Wrote: The fact that gladiators use daggers at all is inane. I felt like a moron tanking with a letter opener in Phase 3.

I second this!
"Fear me I am a Gladiator/Paladin and I will smite you with this letter opener sized dagger!"

Somehow I just want to break down laughing and lose all respect for the class.

Sounsyy · **08-04-2013, 09:27 AM**

(08-04-2013, 04:52 AM)Azthran Wrote: Isn't that a contradiction though? They are still 1 handed bladed weapons, you just have two of them and hold them differently. I'm curious to what makes it okay for another class to use daggers, by your definition one of the weapons that is exclusive to gladiators, and not for another class to be able to use a sword? I'm speaking strictly from a lore perspective here.

Mainly the fact that the daggers would have to come as a set. In 1.0 Gladiators of the coliseum were trained to command both sword and shield effectively, but many sacrificed having a shield to better focus on their sword arm. So essentially saying that Gladiators could not dual wield. (Which in early 1.0 a LOT of people wanted them to be able to.) They either balanced sword and shield or they put all their focus into a single sword.Â

Hmm, looking back over this thread I've defended GLA quite heavily. Think I should say that just cuz I'm arguing for this side doesn't necessarily mean I agree with everything. I'm not a huge supporter of GLA using daggers. (But I do enjoy using a dagger as my main hand on GLA because daggers are one of my favorite weapons. I was a 75 THF and 75 PLD back in XI.) I am simply defending how the class is written and offering suggestions as to how another class with possible conflicting weapons could still exist in FFXIV without changing a pre-existing class. I'm a huge believer that SE should branch out and continue to find new and inventive ways to implement classic FF classes.

(08-04-2013, 05:02 AM)LeCard Wrote:
(08-04-2013, 04:58 AM)synaesthetic Wrote: The fact that gladiators use daggers at all is inane. I felt like a moron tanking with a letter opener in Phase 3.Â
I second this!Â
"Fear me I am a Gladiator/Paladin and I will smite you with this letter opener sized dagger!"Â

Somehow I just want to break down laughing and lose all respect for the class.

I might be reaching on this one, but I think daggers make more sense if you stop looking at Gladiator as a final fantasy tank class and look at it as a Gladiator. A person who duels one vs one in an arena. In a great many literary works and fantasy fiction, a fair amount of those heart-stopping duels between two characters are fought with daggers. Frank Herbert's DuneÂ comes immediately to mind as one such example.Â Muad-dib vs Feyd

faceman7381 · **08-04-2013, 10:18 AM**

For the record Yoshi has said daggers will be moved to a scout type class later which will spawn thief and or ninja job. Â Great swords will be added as said by Yoshi with Dark Knight and/or Samurai as its jobs.

Red Mage has been talked about to death and Yoshi has said it will be added. Â One can speculate but they have used swords and shields in all other FF games despite often being drawn in artwork as a fencer type job.

As for the original Blue Mage post Yoshi said in a live letter there were no plans to add blue magic at that time. Â This means it wasn't even in development. Â One can speculate as to why but probably one good reason would be the basic monster list would have to be done with all their special attacks and skills balanced before they could start to developed blue magic and blue mage as a class.

It is important to note at the time it was asked about Blue Mage Yoshi specifically said there were no plans to implement Blue Mage as opposed to when Dark Knight Samurai Thief Ninja and others are mentioned they are openly talked about in terms of development planning and ideas by Yoshi. Â Even when asked about if there was any new info about musketeer in a live later recently Yoshi said only No. Â He did not say it was not under development like he did to Blue Mage.

All that said Yoshi has said he wants this game to be very FFish. Â Blue Mage is a CORE FF job and one of the unique things to FF. Â I am sure it will come someday. Â

I also addressed the class from which it could come from in several posts before. Â Like the OP I looked to FF games past. Â Khamari from FF 10 used lancet as his learn type blue mage ability. Â Since Dragoon is the only job that has constistantly been associated with the lance as a weapon in FF game history and with the 2 jobs of scholar and summoner coming from the one class of Arcanist leading to many others to belief it is a matter of time before all classes have two jobs coming from them it is possible lancer MAY get Blue Mage if the dev team goes with the lancet ability from FF 10.Â

Of course this like any other theory is life speculation.

Sounsyy · **08-04-2013, 11:33 AM**

(08-04-2013, 10:18 AM)faceman7381 Wrote: For the record Yoshi has said daggers will be moved to a scout type class later which will spawn thief and or ninja job. Â Great swords will be added as said by Yoshi with Dark Knight and/or Samurai as its jobs.

Red Mage has been talked about to death and Yoshi has said it will be added. Â One can speculate but they have used swords and shields in all other FF games despite often being drawn in artwork as a fencer type job.

As for the original Blue Mage post Yoshi said in a live letter there were no plans to add blue magic at that time. Â This means it wasn't even in development.

Could you link some sources for this bold information, please? I've compiled every Live Letter Q&AÂ hereÂ and this is the only information pertaining to new classes other than arcanist/scholar/summoner in the live letters. I can only assume this info comes from Dev Posts somewhere? It's not said in the Live Letter that Thief will use daggers. And I don't think I've heard Yoshi mention Red Mage ever. So would love to have a source to see what his thoughts on the job are.

Q: When will you implement musketeer?
A: Well, we haven't really decided when. Weâ€™ve been talking a lot about samurai, ninja, ranger, and thief, etc. but first we're looking to add the class that will be most interesting and effective from the perspective of battle balance. We still don't know which one will be next.

Q: Can you give us any information about possible new classes or jobs like thief, ninja, samurai, or musketeer?
A: We definitely want to add more classes in future patches. For melee classes, I believe scout-type classes are somewhat lacking. By this I mean classes that can move around stealthily and attack from behind or steal items from monsters. The lack of magic classes needs to be addressed as well. We've received requests for ninja and samurai, especially from overseas, but we can't give out any specifics yet. Rest assured that new classes are definitely coming.

Q: I donâ€™t think there are enough disciples of magic classes/jobs. What are your plans to address this?
A: Well, mages come in many different forms in the FINAL FANTASY series, so we have plenty to work with as we add more magic classes.

Q: Do you plan on implementing great swords?
A: Well, the development team was saying before that they'd have to do this at some point, and I'm thinking it will be when they add the appropriate class or job. It could be samurai, or perhaps dark knight, but only the battle team knows for sure. Still, it's definitely something we'd like to do.

Q: Is there any new information on musketeer?
A: Nope!

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