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Evie · **08-05-2013, 03:27 PM**

Okay having done a bit more researchÂ it the Lore of this new world that I'm excited to RP in, I've noticed that in general story terms we have the Garleans as enemies for the most part and even have a Garleans who have switched sides, one example being the NPC Cid.

So there is an enemy for RP via the NPCs, but I was curious about IC villians. Are the anyone who are looking to be making their character ICly have a more villainous role? Or are most people just planning on using NPCs to full any RP story conflict?

Naunet · **08-05-2013, 03:41 PM**

The Commerce Regulation Agency is not overtly villainous, but I think you might find that they're hidden agenda would not be to most Eorzeans' liking.

Castegyre · **08-05-2013, 03:48 PM**

I have one character that would be classified with 'borderline personality disorder'. Only because of his age, really, or else they'd just call him a sociopath if he were a bit older. He's not beyond redemption, his personality and motivations are not set in stone. He's most definitely not a 'good guy' though. I'm hoping to let his interactions with other players mold his growth and see where he goes from there, but I doubt he'll ever be a model citizen.

Ashren Dotharl · **08-05-2013, 03:49 PM**

The Blades of Nald'thal aren't necessarily villains either, more like... Bad Guy Good Samaritans. I think people outside their organization might view them as villains however, since they don't tend to discriminate who they doll out their particular brand of justice to.

Tyriont · **08-05-2013, 03:50 PM**

In my case, this role is fulfilled by an alt. The primary antagonist of Ty's story is Denavial Calgar, which has been the case since I created those characters in FFXI. The problem with using a main as a villain is that you find very quickly that nobody wants to hang out with you IC because...well, you're evil. An alt allows you to have those villainous interactions without limiting your RP options.

As a side note, I'm seriously considering maintaining two accounts this time around so I can have Den and Ty interact directly >.> Did that a bit in FFXI and it worked well and was a LOT of fun for me - and I'd like to think others as well.

sanguineFenrir · **08-05-2013, 03:53 PM**

I can't speak for everyone, but I personally choose to use NPCs rather than playing with outright villainous characters, or being one myself. Some of these NPCs are in the game and my character reacts to what they do in story quests perhaps; most are of my own creation and are handled offscreen.Â

That isn't to say that my characters are all heroic--even Kevaraan, despite his amicable demeanor, has done questionable things. It's largely up to other players whether to see my characters as heroes or as more ambiguous individuals. I see them as neither, and my style is too individual-focused to get involved in plots or larger efforts against a "villain" character.

I'm sure there will be at least some people interested in playing the villain though--it's just not something I have a lot of experience in, despite seeing guilds built around that in other games.

Edit: I'd like to add after reading some replies that the arcanist Kevaraan assisted in the past probably has some traces of BPD or mental illness. She is important to him, and I don't plan on playing her onscreen because she isn't personable or friendly at all--and that would go nowhere. But most average people would probably agree she's less than wholesome, has sinister or selfish motivations, and that her relationship with Kevaraan is certainly not conventional and has affected him quite a bit.

ArmachiA · **08-05-2013, 03:57 PM**

My Fiance's main alt is a bad guy so I rolled his sister and plan on playing her as a villain. I've only played a villain once before (Generally I toe the line at Anti-hero) and I'm not sure how it will go. I find villains really, really hard to do correctly. You make them too subtle and they aren't really villains, make them to overt and you got a cartoon on your hands.

Also Villains aren't forever. You can just be a bad guy 3 years from now without some kind of consequence. Constantly getting away with stuff would just be... wrong and weird and, at the end of the day, boring. Killing them off when their villainy is at their worst seems like the proper thing to do, but that really only works in books when you have control of every character, not just the one. You don't want to kill off the one! So then what? Jail? Redemption?

I'm having a bit of an issue here, but I really like playing the villain. She was fun, but ultimately ended up dead and became a Death Knight.

Sarantali · **08-05-2013, 04:03 PM**

The "problem" with villain characters is a very subtle one.

Think about any book, movie or television show. How often do villains realistically appear in favor of heroes? Maybe one or two scenes -- establishing they've got things going on and such -- but for the most part villains are effective and scary because you don't know what they've got in their hand. You don't see them and you have those moments of confrontation.

The difficulty comes in RP when your villains are... right down the street. Like, over there. You can visit them. Too often it's either hard to take them seriously because they're not unknowable... they're just some guys. In which case they kinda end up becoming "sort of mean rivals" rather than villains. Or they're honestly evil in which case people are kind of holding an idiot ball for how they interact. Which is to say; if you know someone is legitimately evil and acting against you and you have any sort of proof behind this... why wouldn't you tell an authority to really look into it?

Like Kev says, obviously, I don't think people should be forced to just play nice. Koren is an egomaniac with enough personal issues that she might be asked to pilot an EVA, but villain is a very delicate line to balance how you play.

Naunet · **08-05-2013, 04:04 PM**

In addition to roleplaying within the framework of the CRA, I'll have two characters who are... less than good people. I haven't really got a lot of details worked out for either of them just yet, but Sah'ot (my Keeper) was an over-zealous poacher in the Shroud who over the years has turned her resentment towards Gridanians into a full-fledged hatred of Eorzean societies on a whole.Â

Naunet (highlander hyur) was a soldier within the Garlean Empire who actively volunteered to conscript when her home of Ala Mhigo fell. She's killed a lot of people over the years, willingly, and is not a generally nice person too boot; in fact, she deserted the Empire's forces in the chaos following the Calamity not because she experienced some moral turn-around, but because of a personal failing that I have yet to decide upon. She's spent the past five years on the run and hiding from the military she used to serve so viciously. That she's adopted some more positive tendencies - particularly, directing her proclivity for violence towards helping people more often than it goes towards hurting them - is more a result of her need to blend in than anything. Though perhaps she's getting a bit used to this new persona.

Evie · **08-05-2013, 04:14 PM**

I'm excited that there are going to be quite a few people playing antagonists. I'm considering making an alt who is villainous/antagonist something along those line. I just was unsure how it was going to work since there is really only one faction in this game, versus multiple factions like other games.

Ildur · **08-05-2013, 04:22 PM**

(08-05-2013, 04:03 PM)Koren Wrote: Which is to say; if you know someone is legitimately evil and acting against you and you have any sort of proof behind this... why wouldn't you tell an authority to really look into it?

There are a number of ways to handwave it. Lack of evidence, is one. Coherent villains are those that dance in the edge of legality and those who obfuscate their villainy well. Maybe your character knows that elezen on the other table is a necromancer who profanates graves to further his experiments. But maybe you have no proof of it to give to the authorities: yes, you could tell them anyway, but then the Law might not work properly: investigators could be bribed, perhaps there's no good protocol to find a grave digger besides 'let's put a watch on the graveyard'. Maybe this villain is smart and knows when and where to strike.
There are also more mundane and selfish reasons: maybe your character is stubborn and wants to punch the necromancer himself. Or maybe he doesn't trust the authorities to do their work.

On a more meta level, you can handwave it with 'that would be no fun'. Roleplaying is collaborative storytelling, and making the villain be defeated by the authorities off-screen is kind of...well, not particularly exciting.

Whatever you do, though, you have to keep OOC communication with the villain. Know that they are planning, and discuss the conclusions of the engagements (be them physical or magical battles, or a battle of wits) to settle if the events that took place would call the attention of the NPC authorities and, if that is so, how each participant (including these off-screen authorities) will react and change the plot.

Myxie Tryxle · **08-05-2013, 04:55 PM**

(08-05-2013, 04:14 PM)Evie Wrote: I'm excited that there are going to be quite a few people playing antagonists. I'm considering making an alt who is villainous/antagonist something along those line. I just was unsure how it was going to work since there is really only one faction in this game, versus multiple factions like other games.

The main difficulty with playing a villainous character (truly villainous, not just morally ambiguous or antiheroic) is a matter of etiquette. If your primary character is a villain, they almost have to be attached to a certain storyline or guild to get proper play. For example, if I'm playing a mafioso character and show up with a few brutes at the Corvus Cinis barbeque during the open beta demanding protection money or tribute because they're on my turf, that's a rude way of ruining other peoples' game. Proper etiquette requires that you work those sorts of things out beforehand with the person coordinating the event (maybe not the final outcome, but at least the notion that the barbeque is going to get strong armed). If you just show up out of the blue and try to force dark RP on someone else's event or character, they're likely to either start an out-of-character argument or completely ignore you.

Also, what makes villains truly villainous is that they are larger than life. Their screen time is generally less with less characterization, and their traits, particularly morality traits and resources, are exaggerated for effect. In terms of player characters, this will often be perceived as god-moding.

Personally, I'd like to play a dark character, but it would be an antagonist alt attached to a storyline, not what I would generally consider "my character." Unless the character gets redeemed, but even then I find redemption to be a fantastic point at which to retire a character.

Naunet · **08-05-2013, 05:55 PM**

(08-05-2013, 04:55 PM)Callipygian Wrote: If your primary character is a villain, they almost have to be attached to a certain storyline or guild to get proper play.

*snip*

Also, what makes villains truly villainous is that they are larger than life. Â Their screen time is generally less with less characterization, and their traits, particularly morality traits and resources, are exaggerated for effect. Â In terms of player characters, this will often be perceived as god-moding.

Personally, I'd like to play a dark character, but it would be an antagonist alt attached to a storyline, not what I would generally consider "my character." Â Unless the character gets redeemed, but even then I find redemption to be a fantastic point at which to retire a character.

Yeah, for actual villains - as in, antagonists meant specifically to set themselves again certain people - I generally relegate the task to alts devoted to telling a particular story. Without a solid storyline, the would-be "villain" character becomes nothing more than some petty chaos-starter with no discernible motivation, which isn't really fun for roleplay. I also tend to not pull these kinds of characters out for RP with just anyone, because roleplaying a dynamic plot like that requires a lot of give and take on both sides, which is never a sure thing if you just go looking for random people in a crowd. It requires planning and sacrifice on both sides (sometimes the fun kind of sacrifice!). I'm most proud of Twin and I's creation in our over-arching TERA plot, but that nightmarish character would never work as an everyone's-villain.

Oh, and I'll just put this out there: If a "villain" ever in the course of roleplay pulls out "bombs", I will proceed to laugh out loud and then just slap you. Freaking bombs. They need to be banned!

Ildur · **08-05-2013, 06:03 PM**

All villains are antagonists, but not all antagonists are villains!

Look at me, being all witty and stuff.

FreelanceWizard · **08-05-2013, 06:06 PM**

Personally, I like my villains to be backed by players, as long as everyone knows the ground rules and can follow ICA = ICC.

One approach, albeit one that has its own issues, is to have the same group (or very nearly the same group) of players play their own villainous nemeses. We did this for a bit back on CoH, where the Nemesis Council was locked in a struggle with the New Porter Institute. Almost everyone in one group played an alt in the other, and both sides schemed against the other in plotlines. No one wanted to destroy anyone else's character because, of course, that would lead to massive IC Consequences, so it was a lot of tit-for-tat villainy and heroic thwartings thereof. It was fun while it lasted; what killed it was the SGs growing with people who didn't want to participate. I've seen this arc work (while it lasts, anyway; the success of the guild concepts independently usually spells its demise) in EQ and EQ2 as well.

You can do a similar thing with allied guilds, though it seems eventually either everyone tires of the PvP or someone takes things too far (killing another PC) and there's no way to enforce IC consequences.

All that said, though, if someone or someones were going to be a group of magical terrorists and looking for a group of mages to heroically oppose them in a long-term game of cat and mouse, we should talk. Smile

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Villians and RP conflict

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes