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Eva · **03-20-2010, 10:23 PM**

They had the capacity to link up their Walahran religion pretty well with other aspects of the game, but fell short. I had actually given thought to having my character adopt this form of religion when I first understood what it was, but decided against it for various reasons (among them a strong distrust of the Near Eastern culture in general).

I believe their main philosophy deals with "the void" and I recall some quotes from cutscenes akin to, "From the void all things are born and to the void all things must return," or something to that effect.

This seemed like a perfect opportunity to link the religion of the Near Eastern lands to the great void we experienced at the onset of CoP - and the emptiness which is spoken of by Tenzen in the Far East - Promyvion.

If one of the deities in FFXIV is something similar to this, I may consider changing my plans and having Kes take up that following. I suppose we shall see. I want to know more about the other 10 deities before I make any final decisions, but I'm still leaning towards my more abstract views, and she will probably not be a very religious character (spiritual though, maybe).

Smiling River · **03-20-2010, 10:23 PM**

I was over simplifying it, but also talking from a new player's perspective. To a new RP'er all you can see is San d'Orian cathedral, Bastok's fading temple, and the Star Sybil in Windurst who is perceived as a messenger to Altana in a way. So without all that expansion info, when you usually make a character and their religion, it's hard to change it RP-wise because of OOC reasons (for example, a new expansion which has another philosophy you like) in the future.

EDIT: I've only read the tiny bit of lore they have out once, but I don't remember them mentioning specific gods. Is that where it's mentioned? Can someone post whatever info there is here so that I and others who don't know the specifics can read about it? Might as well start a hub of info available about religion here. ^_^

Kylin · **03-20-2010, 10:24 PM**

Mason Wrote:EDIT: I've only read the tiny bit of lore they have out once, but I don't remember them mentioning specific gods. Is that where it's mentioned? Can someone post whatever info there is here so that I and others who don't know the specifics can read about it? Might as well start a hub of info available about religion here. ^_^

They make minor mention of the "Twelve" in one of the videos. They make minor mention of the "gods" under the Intro tab on the main site. Under the story tab (both subsections), they also make minor references. It should also be mentioned that they talk about the "primals" as well, which are apparently different god-like beings who the beast tribes worship and use to strike terror into the people of Eorzea. These "primals" are probably the avatars/eidolons/summons of the continent.

Llymlaen is specifically mentioned in the Limsa Lominsa profile and is the goddess in which we have the most info on, as little as it is.

Nymeia is mentioned once in the TGS 2009 trailer. They call her "Nymeia the Spinner."

**03-20-2010, 10:24 PM**

I only remember hearing about the two gods Castiel mentioned and the Banshin, the gods of the Banzoku, which I don't think have been named yet. As far as I know, the only the only details about The Twelve that have been revealed are the names of Llymlaen and Nymeia, and all we know about the Banzoku are that they might be tied to the elements. The one they've shown so far sure looks like he could be Ifrit.

I have a feeling the worshipers of The Twelve will be split into different cults for different gods, but will all consider themselves connected in some way. Sort of like how quite a few real-world polytheistic religions have worked. Each cult has it's own unique faith, but most worshipers regardless of cult ties share a few core beliefs. I could see it being more organized than that though, perhaps with a central organization to which all the members of the different cults also belonged.

That it looks like there won't be one god who's responsible for all of creation is is definitely a good sign. Since I doubt they'll be able to cover every aspect of mortal life with just twelve gods, that leaves us a lot of room to make up our own. As long as you don't write it so that your character's beliefs are to be taken as the canon truth, you're fine, even if SE later writes something that contradicts your lore.

Verence · **03-20-2010, 10:25 PM**

I shall worship Jeff, god of biscuits! Failing that: Ted, god of hairdos. His nemesis is Phil, god of running, jumping, and climbing trees.

Sorry. I saw the reference and I had to go for it.

EDIT: Sorry, you're all going to hate me for this, but after brief discussion with friends I have resolved to make a comic relief mule who is a filthy, raving old nutter who spends his days ranting about the buttermilk divinity of Jeff, god of biscuits.

Nanapariri · **03-20-2010, 10:25 PM**

Verence Wrote:FFXI religion was deceptively varied, really. Granted nearly everyone worshiped Altana, but each nation had a rather unique take. The San d'Orian Cathedral was sort of Roman Catholic Church and the 'standard' but there were hints of interesting doctrinal differences between that and the Church of Tavnazia. Then we had Bastok, which was sort of post-religious. The only nod they had to religion was a small forgotten shrine with a cracked and peeling statue. Windurst had an odd take in that they seemed to believe that the Sibyl was an avatar of the Goddess and the medium through which the prayers of the people were conveyed to the stars in the heavens. In a sense, they almost worshiped the moon and stars more than the Goddess. Then we had the Mithra, who worshiped the spirit of the land... Whether they equated Altana with the land was entirely debatable. Then of course we had the divine serpents in the East and the Walahran philosophy but they never really got into that. There are the barest hints of other gods, most notably in the Memoria de la S'tona, but keep in mind that to the Eastern mindset, 'god' means something fairly different. All of the avatars, terrestrial and celestial, are "gods" in the Eastern sense.

I don't really think FFXI suffered from a lack of variety on the religion front, but we only really got any in-depth information on the San d'Orian and Tavnazian church beliefs due to the Chains of Promathia plot. I'm hoping there will be a lot more religious lore in this setting, and the idea of polytheism interests me greatly. I've only ever had the chance to RP a polytheistic character once, in a tabletop chronicle, and it was a fairly interesting experience. He was technically a warrior-priest of the greatest of the gods, but encouraged people to pay reverences to all of them. It sparked an interesting in-character discussion or two.

This is very true. Since the plots in the game focus mostly around the the various Altana sects people often miss the other religions only touched on.

I've had fun having a mithra with traditional beliefs and a Galka from the East that had been trained as a monk from a shrine devoted to the Pheonix before he became a showman. It just took making up a little bit and I never created an entire system, but it is possible within reason.

Aveline · **03-20-2010, 10:26 PM**

I think it's especially interesting that in XIV there will also be saints as well as gods. It seems a bit more Roman-Catholic that way, but could add some depth to those that choose to RP religious elements in to their characters. While I'm waiting on more lore before I decide how much/if any religion my character will have, I could definitely see her referring to saints in passing, or swearing by a particular saint's name.

Eltharian · **03-20-2010, 10:26 PM**

Quote:EDIT: Sorry, you're all going to hate me for this, but after brief discussion with friends I have resolved to make a comic relief mule who is a filthy, raving old nutter who spends his days ranting about the buttermilk divinity of Jeff, god of biscuits.

^_^

ramdragn · **03-20-2010, 10:27 PM**

As it's already discussed, religion is a tricky one. In my time in FFXI it wasn't touched after the release of Zilart which seemed to bring a lot of interest. We did had some intent to incorporate some religions but were failures for the most part (really awefull) as I stated before few groups remained consisted.

Wedding Bells took an approach between the SE wedding service and the individual nation. For example, Sandy had it catholic style ceremony with a offering to Altana; whereas Bastok had a military ceremony for the most part. Windurst was the most elaborated where a character was made as chosen by the sybli to bless the couples. A trial/pilgrimage was done from windurst waters to the full moon mountain where everyone asked Fenrir to bless the union.

Beside that a lot of RP between the "priests" was generally done specially the "CampaÃƒÂ±a Devota" (Devoted campaign) where the priests and all Wedding bells group joined in some kind of conference to discuss religion in FFXI (took forever those RP)

In my opinion, the factors that hurt or help a religion whether is the followers and fame.

One religion that stood for a while was the Gods of Sky (byako, which was the most famous in the ls) Somehow they linked Byako with Altana and Promathi. I quote "Byako was the first pet of the omnipotent Altana and Promathia. At the early age, both siblings fought for safekeeping the mighty beast but as they grew older their interest on the Byako diminish. Still loving the great beast, Byako was given immortal life and a gift from both Altana and Promathia." (this was believed by a small tribe living in Zi'Ta)

The reason this kept on was because the majority accepted/liked/believed what was told and so it was proclaimed. As in the quote bellow, I totally agree upon that.

Quote:I've had fun having a mithra with traditional beliefs and a Galka from the East that had been trained as a monk from a shrine devoted to the Pheonix before he became a showman. It just took making up a little bit and I never created an entire system, but it is possible within reason.

PS: didn't know about the saints which would surely make interesting plots along the lore . . .

**03-20-2010, 10:27 PM**

You could always try to do something like the Baha'i. They pretty much made a religion saying that there is one singular unknowable entity known as "God" and that it(he/she?) sent many messengers to interpret the same message in a way that the different cultures would understand.

Now... as for how you could apply this to FFXIV, that's up to your imagination. On the other hand I think an animistic or druidic religion could easily be established regardless of lore, whereas the first idea would be entirely lore-dependant.

Nanapariri · **03-20-2010, 10:28 PM**

Though I've been busy I was thinking how what we've read so far on ffxiv religion and government sounds a lot like ancient Greece.

Here's a snipet from about.com so you can see what I mean:

Quote:Everyone in ancient Greece defined their lives in relation to the sacred realm and in relation to the political organization of their city-state. In this way religion and politics were deeply intertwined - arguably, there was no obvious separation between the two.

The transmission of Greek legends generally occurred in the public realm. Dramas, readings, and other performances were integral to the rhythm of public life. Such poetic activity provided shape and cohesiveness to the political community, defining its internal structure as well as its face to outsiders. It was also standard that such performances involve the myths and rituals of Greek religion - completely secular drama that was divorced from religion was not normal, if it even existed.

The role of the city-state in the development and form of Greek religion could easily be overlooked, but it is vitally important. The social revolution which led to the formation of the Greek city-states occurred in parallel with the formation of the Greek pantheon, indicating a simultaneous reorganization of political, social, and religious life.

Furthermore, it must be remembered that each city-state had it's own patron deity, a relationship which played a decisive role not only in the character of local politics and community feelings, but also in the nature of the myths recounted in that region. The stories about Athena could be told one way in Athens where she was the patron goddess, another way in Sparta where she was not. Patron deities had a special kinship with their cities, playing a role in how local citizens saw themselves and understood their relationship to outsiders.

Much of this changed during the Hellenistic Age, usually marked by the conquests of Alexander the Great after 334 BCE. Under the rule of Macedonian lords, various Greek communities began to take a different perspective on religion which moved them away from community-oriented practices and more towards individualistic religious beliefs

Private associations were formed and interest in things like astrology bloomed. At the same time, politically-enforced veneration of divine rulers like Alexander himself began to develop. Such veneration was used to gauge one's adherence to social and political norms in a conscious, overt manner that contrasts sharply to more unconscious used of Greek rituals to do the same thing in prior ages. This probably helped drive people to the individualistic practices as more "authentically" religious.

If this type of structure seems built in I think its possible for the community to use the different Greek Gods as counterparts to develope city-state religions.

HalaBasinah · **03-20-2010, 10:34 PM**

It does sound very Greek to me, what with the polytheism and the patron gods of city-states.

It also seems that the Primals may be something like the Greek Titans.

ramdragn · **03-20-2010, 10:34 PM**

Taking from the comment from the post, if they are Greek based (speculatively) There could be not only temples but shrines. Small villages (maybe nomads Elveens) with portable shrines or set stones where rituals and such can be made. Probably seasonal routes leading to shrines where events will be placed. . . pretty much like FFX where some temples were elaborated and others were even forgotten yet everyone recognized the "all summons" but not everyone prayed to all or the same one.

Nanapariri · **03-20-2010, 10:35 PM**

ramdragn Wrote:Taking from the comment from the post, if they are Greek based (speculatively) There could be not only temples but shrines. Small villages (maybe nomads Elveens) with portable shrines or set stones where rituals and such can be made. Probably seasonal routes leading to shrines where events will be placed. . . pretty much like FFX where some temples were elaborated and others were even forgotten yet everyone recognized the "all summons" but not everyone prayed to all or the same one.

Even if FFXIV officially doesn't make pilgramages an official thing it might make it interesting as an RPC event.

The possibilities are intriguing.

Klare · **03-20-2010, 10:51 PM**

Having religion within any game to me automatically makes the game a little more interesting (so long as it's not just black and white). With FFXIV having 12 gods I can't wait to see the lore behind all of them and how SE will incorporate them into the game.

Will there be religious wars between countries/cites/races?
Will each of the gods offer something that the other doesn't?
What are the moral positions of each of the gods? are some good,evil or neutral?

There's plenty of interesting rp idea's that can be used using gods but I guess we'll just have to wait till more lore comes out.

A long time ago I played a game called "DarkAges" and out of all the mmo's I've played I think they had the most interactive and interesting religious system. I won't go into too much detail but the game consisted of 8 gods, all of which represented a certain aspect such as war, death, compassion etc etc. Anyway you as a player had the choice to choose one of the gods to worship and by doing so you gained their blessings. Of course it wasn't just as simple go into their temple and get a buff, you had to go through a role-playing system and attend mass (which was could last up to 30 min or more) or donate to the temple to gain faith and then through faith you gained certain abilities that the god you worshiped granted to you.

Now I'm not expecting FFXIV to be as intricate as that but it be neat to see if SE will make religion within FFXIV more interactive then just saying I'm a follower of said god.

Only con I see to this is if one gods become more popular then another just because of whatever buff or reason they give, people would just flock to that god to take advantage of the game mechanic instead of the rp.

As for a general consensus within our rp group and other rp groups I agree with Laychield in the idea that everyone's going to have different idea's or make up their own story or gods (depending on the lore).
All I know about that is if I run into someone's religion that is contradicting to the lore I won't be saying anything against it but will rp out Klare's thoughts depending on how believable it is.

Anyway, as far as Klare goes with religion she won't be giving any type of worship to any of the gods since in her eyes they didn't do squat for her when she was growing up in the streets.

Will be fun to rp her running into one though if it's part of the FFXIV storyline.

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RP and Theology

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes