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Mr.Bear · **08-28-2013, 03:38 AM**

(08-28-2013, 03:25 AM)Khaze Wrote: Mr Bear, you are quite welcome to call yourself Nunh but you are not part of our tribe correct, because our tribe is a very particular portion of the K tribe and does not encompass all K miqo'te in anyway. Â We do not represent all k' miqo'te and would be loath to do so. Â If you wanted to be part of the tribe we can work you in but you couldn't be one of the Nunh without challenging one of the current Nunh or taking part in an upcoming event yet to be announced.

Ah, that's unfortunate then. It is too much part of his character for me to retcon it just to join your particular section of the Hipparion tribe. I do wish you luck though and good fun, it's good that you people made something to represent the Hipparion tribe (or a part of it anyway) so that kind of RP can be had plenty.

I'll not join it then, but i'll still consider him a part of the tribe in general. THAT SAID, if any of you wish to RP with me I implore you to contact me, i'm always up for more RP. Athir Nunh being my display name ingame. Seeing as we would be part of the same tribe we could make a deal of sorts to say you know my character in some way (up to you, if at all, how much you know the character.)

Khaze'to Zhwan · **08-28-2013, 03:40 AM**

Erm in our tribe at least (one small portion of the K tribe, others might be less honourable) the females would refuse to mate with him and the tribe would boot him out quite quickly if he if went as far downhill as you say, with the ratio of males to females there are going to be quite a number of very capable females who are able to stand their ground, specially with numbers on their side. Â Not to mention any Tia (not Kia) who wish to throw him to the ground.

Also we would be quite happy to RP with you as a member of another branch, just be prepared for tribal differences to cause conflict, however it would be nice to see the different side of things.

Quick question through, how are you dealing with the fact that a Nunh that leaves the tribal area and his females to go adventuring probably won't stay Nunh for long?

Maqali Qulaan · **08-28-2013, 03:42 AM**

(08-28-2013, 03:30 AM)Mr.Bear Wrote: ...That brought a interesting idea to mind too. This very likely won't be the case for my character but what if a Nunh goes bad? Like you have a Nunh that gets a bit too self important and disrupts the cohesiveness of the family, the tribe, by being disrespectfull of those under his care? I might imagine a Kia might challenge him, but then again what if there is no Kia capable enough to do so? Would the leadership step in or would another Nunh challenge him for his lack of honor and respect?...

Â I snipped from your post because (even though this isn't strictly pertinent to the Hipparion tribe thing going on here) this is actually a key point explored in my character's backstory Smile

In short, I imagine it would be very, very messy, especially if the nunh is influential or otherwise has power beyond his normal duties. It's potentially even worse if he still enjoys the support of those he sired ("Yeah, he's an awful bastard, but he's also my father!").

Mr.Bear · **08-28-2013, 03:51 AM**

(08-28-2013, 03:40 AM)Khaze Wrote: Erm in our tribe at least (one small portion of the K tribe, others might be less honourable) the females would refuse to mate with him and the tribe would boot him out quite quickly if he if went as far downhill as you say, with the ratio of males to females there are going to be quite a number of very capable females who are able to stand their ground, specially with numbers on their side. Â Not to mention any Tia (not Kia) who wish to throw him to the ground.

Also we would be quite happy to RP with you as a member of another branch, just be prepared for tribal differences to cause conflict, however it would be nice to see the different side of things. Â

Quick question through, how are you dealing with the fact that a Nunh that leaves the tribal area and his females to go adventuring probably won't stay Nunh for long?

Another branch? tribal differences? I am RPing him to be part of the same tribe, mind you. Not a different tribe. Nor a dishonorable part of the tribe (I can't imagine there being dishonorable and honorable branches in the same tribe. It would tear the tribe apart and they would rather make their own tribe in that case. One of the rare cases where that might actually work and the new tribe wouldn't die off)

As for that part, I RP him to indeed having accepted that to a part. His wandering however is to gain experiences and lessons that will be valuable upon his return to the tribe, as well as seeking out tribeless born (he'd have problems with one that left a tribe in their lifetime. It implies several things, and none of them good.) to tell them of the tribe if he deems them decent enough and if he thinks they might try to fit in.

He already has a following of sorts, actually. Gathered through RP, nice conversations and adventures. In that i consider him to still be worthy as a Nunh, and he remains to act like one. (the looking out part for those he considers under his wing anyway.) Upon his return he'll take atleast one of them (confirmed) with him and there are more potentials in sight. If he has enough he might just be able to re-assume the title of a Nunh if there are enough females amongst them, without having to challenge a Nunh. (a bit unorthodox but he has already proven himself before) If by then (or at all. if his females were particularly loyal somehow) he has lost his status of Nunh there that is.

Mr.Bear · **08-28-2013, 04:08 AM**

(08-28-2013, 03:42 AM)S Wrote:
(08-28-2013, 03:30 AM)Mr.Bear Wrote: ...That brought a interesting idea to mind too. This very likely won't be the case for my character but what if a Nunh goes bad? Like you have a Nunh that gets a bit too self important and disrupts the cohesiveness of the family, the tribe, by being disrespectfull of those under his care? I might imagine a Kia might challenge him, but then again what if there is no Kia capable enough to do so? Would the leadership step in or would another Nunh challenge him for his lack of honor and respect?...
Â I snipped from your post because (even though this isn't strictly pertinent to the Hipparion tribe thing going on here) this is actually a key point explored in my character's backstory In short, I imagine it would be very, very messy, especially if the nunh is influential or otherwise has power beyond his normal duties. It's potentially even worse if he still enjoys the support of those he sired ("Yeah, he's an awful bastard, but he's also my father!").

I can see that happen yes, a Nunh being dishonorable to an extent but already having breeded dedicated family (beside the family that the tribe in general should be in his eyes) might bring certain conflicts with other parts of the tribe.

This might have to be settled with a ritual challenge of sorts, but it's a unknown how messy this can get. It depends on the offending Nunh. The absolute worst that could happen in my characters eyes is that it brings such a schism that it would lead to the banishment of that particular Nunh, but that Nunh still would have loyal females that might go with him.

Mind you this is very unlikely, in my eyes the tribes consider others in their tribe family. To leave that...how selfish, reckless, and unworthy must you be? It proves that you can't keep a family. That you just slapped away the hands that tried to help you.

Maqali Qulaan · **08-28-2013, 04:12 AM**

(08-28-2013, 04:08 AM)Mr.Bear Wrote:
(08-28-2013, 03:42 AM)S Wrote:
(08-28-2013, 03:30 AM)Mr.Bear Wrote: ...That brought a interesting idea to mind too. This very likely won't be the case for my character but what if a Nunh goes bad? Like you have a Nunh that gets a bit too self important and disrupts the cohesiveness of the family, the tribe, by being disrespectfull of those under his care? I might imagine a Kia might challenge him, but then again what if there is no Kia capable enough to do so? Would the leadership step in or would another Nunh challenge him for his lack of honor and respect?...
Â I snipped from your post because (even though this isn't strictly pertinent to the Hipparion tribe thing going on here) this is actually a key point explored in my character's backstory In short, I imagine it would be very, very messy, especially if the nunh is influential or otherwise has power beyond his normal duties. It's potentially even worse if he still enjoys the support of those he sired ("Yeah, he's an awful bastard, but he's also my father!").

I can see that happen yes, a Nunh being dishonorable to an extent but already having breeded dedicated family (beside the family that the tribe in general should be in his eyes) might bring certain conflicts with other parts of the tribe.

This might have to be settled with a ritual challenge of sorts, but it's a unknown how messy this can get. It depends on the offending Nunh

Exactly. And given that S'janna's tribe (well, the portion of the Zu tribe she lived with) was quite small to begin with... well, it only makes having a bad nunh (who is also the only nunh) that much worse. As of when Janna left/ran away, the group was sort of in an uneasy peace, where no one really wanted to bring about the large-scale disruption attempting to cast down the nunh might have wrought. Of course, she doesn't know what (if anything) has happened since she left- but the last act that drove her to leave in the first place was the nunh killing a young tia who'd challenged him in a 'heat of the moment' type situation. The kid was so far outclassed it was a joke, but the nunh didn't hold back at all either.

EDIT: Whoops, saw that I'd missed part of your post. Ironically the last part of what you mentioned (about loyal females leaving with a disgraced nunh) was sort of how Janna's tribe got started, only the nunh was just a charismatic tia at the time. I definitely agree that that's a possible outcome in such a situation, because you have those family ties that you might be loathe to lose, even if it makes you look bad by leaving.

Mr.Bear · **08-28-2013, 04:15 AM**

(08-28-2013, 04:12 AM)S Wrote:
(08-28-2013, 04:08 AM)Mr.Bear Wrote:
(08-28-2013, 03:42 AM)S Wrote:
(08-28-2013, 03:30 AM)Mr.Bear Wrote: ...That brought a interesting idea to mind too. This very likely won't be the case for my character but what if a Nunh goes bad? Like you have a Nunh that gets a bit too self important and disrupts the cohesiveness of the family, the tribe, by being disrespectfull of those under his care? I might imagine a Kia might challenge him, but then again what if there is no Kia capable enough to do so? Would the leadership step in or would another Nunh challenge him for his lack of honor and respect?...
Â I snipped from your post because (even though this isn't strictly pertinent to the Hipparion tribe thing going on here) this is actually a key point explored in my character's backstory In short, I imagine it would be very, very messy, especially if the nunh is influential or otherwise has power beyond his normal duties. It's potentially even worse if he still enjoys the support of those he sired ("Yeah, he's an awful bastard, but he's also my father!").

I can see that happen yes, a Nunh being dishonorable to an extent but already having breeded dedicated family (beside the family that the tribe in general should be in his eyes) might bring certain conflicts with other parts of the tribe.

This might have to be settled with a ritual challenge of sorts, but it's a unknown how messy this can get. It depends on the offending Nunh
Exactly. And given that S'janna's tribe (well, the portion of the Zu tribe she lived with) was quite small to begin with... well, it only makes having a bad nunh (who is also the only nunh) that much worse. As of when Janna left/ran away, the group was sort of in an uneasy peace, where no one really wanted to bring about the large-scale disruption attempting to cast down the nunh might have wrought. Of course, she doesn't know what (if anything) has happened since she left- but the last act that drove her to leave in the first place was the nunh killing a young tia who'd challenged him in a 'heat of the moment' type situation. The kid was so far outclassed it was a joke, but the nunh didn't hold back at all either.

Huh, we should RP sometime. I can imagine that being a interesting point of RP

Maqali Qulaan · **08-28-2013, 04:17 AM**

(08-28-2013, 04:15 AM)Mr.Bear Wrote:
(08-28-2013, 04:12 AM)S Wrote:
(08-28-2013, 04:08 AM)Mr.Bear Wrote:
(08-28-2013, 03:42 AM)S Wrote:
(08-28-2013, 03:30 AM)Mr.Bear Wrote: ...That brought a interesting idea to mind too. This very likely won't be the case for my character but what if a Nunh goes bad? Like you have a Nunh that gets a bit too self important and disrupts the cohesiveness of the family, the tribe, by being disrespectfull of those under his care? I might imagine a Kia might challenge him, but then again what if there is no Kia capable enough to do so? Would the leadership step in or would another Nunh challenge him for his lack of honor and respect?...
Â I snipped from your post because (even though this isn't strictly pertinent to the Hipparion tribe thing going on here) this is actually a key point explored in my character's backstory In short, I imagine it would be very, very messy, especially if the nunh is influential or otherwise has power beyond his normal duties. It's potentially even worse if he still enjoys the support of those he sired ("Yeah, he's an awful bastard, but he's also my father!").

I can see that happen yes, a Nunh being dishonorable to an extent but already having breeded dedicated family (beside the family that the tribe in general should be in his eyes) might bring certain conflicts with other parts of the tribe.

This might have to be settled with a ritual challenge of sorts, but it's a unknown how messy this can get. It depends on the offending Nunh
Exactly. And given that S'janna's tribe (well, the portion of the Zu tribe she lived with) was quite small to begin with... well, it only makes having a bad nunh (who is also the only nunh) that much worse. As of when Janna left/ran away, the group was sort of in an uneasy peace, where no one really wanted to bring about the large-scale disruption attempting to cast down the nunh might have wrought. Of course, she doesn't know what (if anything) has happened since she left- but the last act that drove her to leave in the first place was the nunh killing a young tia who'd challenged him in a 'heat of the moment' type situation. The kid was so far outclassed it was a joke, but the nunh didn't hold back at all either.

Huh, we should RP sometime. I can imagine that being a interesting point of RP

Absolutely! It's one of the cornerstones of Janna's RP and who she is today. Of course, I can also see there being some good arguing between them because of Janna essentially walking away from her tribe- with a child no less.

Mr.Bear · **08-28-2013, 04:21 AM**

(08-28-2013, 04:17 AM)S Wrote:
(08-28-2013, 04:15 AM)Mr.Bear Wrote:
(08-28-2013, 04:12 AM)S Wrote:
(08-28-2013, 04:08 AM)Mr.Bear Wrote:
(08-28-2013, 03:42 AM)S Wrote: Â I snipped from your post because (even though this isn't strictly pertinent to the Hipparion tribe thing going on here) this is actually a key point explored in my character's backstory In short, I imagine it would be very, very messy, especially if the nunh is influential or otherwise has power beyond his normal duties. It's potentially even worse if he still enjoys the support of those he sired ("Yeah, he's an awful bastard, but he's also my father!").

I can see that happen yes, a Nunh being dishonorable to an extent but already having breeded dedicated family (beside the family that the tribe in general should be in his eyes) might bring certain conflicts with other parts of the tribe.

This might have to be settled with a ritual challenge of sorts, but it's a unknown how messy this can get. It depends on the offending Nunh
Exactly. And given that S'janna's tribe (well, the portion of the Zu tribe she lived with) was quite small to begin with... well, it only makes having a bad nunh (who is also the only nunh) that much worse. As of when Janna left/ran away, the group was sort of in an uneasy peace, where no one really wanted to bring about the large-scale disruption attempting to cast down the nunh might have wrought. Of course, she doesn't know what (if anything) has happened since she left- but the last act that drove her to leave in the first place was the nunh killing a young tia who'd challenged him in a 'heat of the moment' type situation. The kid was so far outclassed it was a joke, but the nunh didn't hold back at all either.

Huh, we should RP sometime. I can imagine that being a interesting point of RP
Absolutely! It's one of the cornerstones of Janna's RP and who she is today. Of course, I can also see there being some good arguing between them because of Janna essentially walking away from her tribe- with a child no less.

Probably. He's a gentle giant though, but hard to explain really the details of his personality and ways. I'll simply look forward to RPing more tribe related things ^^ so far it has proven fun and enjoyable. It's also nice explaining things from his point of view regarding that (quite good at it, actually. He makes it sound very sensible even to tribeless born)

Khaze'to Zhwan · **08-28-2013, 04:26 AM**

(08-28-2013, 03:51 AM)Mr.Bear Wrote: Another branch? tribal differences? I am RPing him to be part of the same tribe, mind you. Not a different tribe. Nor a dishonorable part of the tribe (I can't imagine there being dishonorable and honorable branches in the same tribe. It would tear the tribe apart and they would rather make their own tribe in that case. One of the rare cases where that might actually work and the new tribe wouldn't die off)

Erm another branch is the same thing as a different section of the tribe, still teh K tribe but in a different family grouping of it. Â If you start saying you represent all ways of the tribe people are not going to be very happy. Â I also never suggested that the particular branch you come from is dishonourable just that their might be branches that are.

Of course if to different branches come together they might not share all the same values as each other. Â It doesn't mean that they are not the same tribe but it would cause strife. Â For instance if you came along and introduced yourself as a Nunh in your current state as an adventurer this particular portion of the tribe would likely laugh in your face asking where you keep your females (IC of course, we welcome the rp and new friends on the server ooc)

Maqali Qulaan · **08-28-2013, 04:30 AM**

(08-28-2013, 04:26 AM)Khaze Wrote:
(08-28-2013, 03:51 AM)Mr.Bear Wrote: Another branch? tribal differences? I am RPing him to be part of the same tribe, mind you. Not a different tribe. Nor a dishonorable part of the tribe (I can't imagine there being dishonorable and honorable branches in the same tribe. It would tear the tribe apart and they would rather make their own tribe in that case. One of the rare cases where that might actually work and the new tribe wouldn't die off)
Erm another branch is the same thing as a different section of the tribe, still teh K tribe but in a different family grouping of it. Â If you start saying you represent all ways of the tribe people are not going to be very happy. Â I also never suggested that the particular branch you come from is dishonourable just that their might be branches that are.

Of course if to different branches come together they might not share all the same values as each other. Â It doesn't mean that they are not the same tribe but it would cause strife. Â For instance if you came along and introduced yourself as a Nunh in your current state as an adventurer this particular portion of the tribe would likely laugh in your face asking where you keep your females (IC of course, we welcome the rp and new friends on the server ooc)

I'm not like an expert on lore or anything (yet! Tongue

) but I sort of see different branches of a tribe a lot like cousins in a family. There's going to be a lot of shared history and values, yes, but also some differences, some possibly even major differences. There's plenty of room for variation among players even within the same tribe. Right?

Mr.Bear · **08-28-2013, 04:33 AM**

(08-28-2013, 04:26 AM)Khaze Wrote:
(08-28-2013, 03:51 AM)Mr.Bear Wrote: Another branch? tribal differences? I am RPing him to be part of the same tribe, mind you. Not a different tribe. Nor a dishonorable part of the tribe (I can't imagine there being dishonorable and honorable branches in the same tribe. It would tear the tribe apart and they would rather make their own tribe in that case. One of the rare cases where that might actually work and the new tribe wouldn't die off)
Erm another branch is the same thing as a different section of the tribe, still teh K tribe but in a different family grouping of it. Â If you start saying you represent all ways of the tribe people are not going to be very happy. Â I also never suggested that the particular branch you come from is dishonourable just that their might be branches that are.

Of course if to different branches come together they might not share all the same values as each other. Â It doesn't mean that they are not the same tribe but it would cause strife. Â For instance if you came along and introduced yourself as a Nunh in your current state as an adventurer this particular portion of the tribe would likely laugh in your face asking where you keep your females (IC of course, we welcome the rp and new friends on the server ooc)

I'm not saying i'm the representative, you just made it sound that because I wasn't a part of your particular section of the tribe there would be tribal differences with me, or might be.

Which sounded a little weird, seeing as I would consider the tribe unified on traditions and ways. Unless the tribe has a troublemaking element of sorts in the form of bad leadership or a bad Nunh/Tia. Which is possible ofcourse, but i'm not aware of any yet.

I'm not saying he introduces himself a Nunh though, not outside the Tribe anyway. I do consider him to have achieved the title of Nunh sometime in the past in the Hipparion Tribe (though not necesarily your section of it, but you are part of the same tribe) If such a said Nunh came back from travels and brought back valuable lessons and experiences, and might have even strengthened himself from those experiences, I'd think he'd have a good chance of still being recognized of being a Nunh if he brought sufficient females back also.

Not only did he make the tribe grow in that case, he made sure to learn valuable experiences and lessons that the tribe might use. In my eyes that represents strength and capability, don't you think?

Khaze'to Zhwan · **08-28-2013, 04:38 AM**

(08-28-2013, 04:30 AM)S Wrote: I'm not like an expert on lore or anything (yet! ) but I sort of see different branches of a tribe a lot like cousins in a family. There's going to be a lot of shared history and values, yes, but also some differences, some possibly even major differences. There's plenty of room for variation among players even within the same tribe. Right?

Oh different branches as cousins are defiantly how we are playing it. Â so yeah shared culture and history. Â I guess where people are slipping up is that tribe can mean both the overall tribe of who knows how many Hipparion and one particular family group. Â Now if you mean differences between members of the same family group, sure but they will be to a lesser extent than those between other family groups of Hipparion and again smaller still when talking about miqo'te as a whole.

We are a family of Miqo'te who are descended from the root Hipparion Tribe who are Sunseekers. Â Mr Bears Nunh is just from another family group, still the Hipparion Tribe, just a different branch with from the sounds of it different values.

Mr.Bear · **08-28-2013, 04:42 AM**

(08-28-2013, 04:38 AM)Khaze Wrote:
(08-28-2013, 04:30 AM)S Wrote: I'm not like an expert on lore or anything (yet! ) but I sort of see different branches of a tribe a lot like cousins in a family. There's going to be a lot of shared history and values, yes, but also some differences, some possibly even major differences. There's plenty of room for variation among players even within the same tribe. Right?
Oh different branches as cousins are defiantly how we are playing it. Â so yeah shared culture and history. Â I guess where people are slipping up is that tribe can mean both the overall tribe of who knows how many Hipparion and one particular family group. Â Now if you mean differences between members of the same family group, sure but they will be to a lesser extent than those between other family groups of Hipparion and again smaller still when talking about miqo'te as a whole.

We are a family of Miqo'te who are descended from the root Hipparion Tribe who are Sunseekers. Â Mr Bears Nunh is just from another family group, still the Hipparion Tribe, just a different branch with from the sounds of it different values.

I can see that being very accurate a description yes, the general tribe is unified on traditions but there might be smaller differences between the families within the tribe, or heated ones if we get the problems discussed earlier with a bad nunh or troublesome Tia (though the Tia might be dealt with faster unless he really has a lot of influence)

I'm not sure what you mean when you speak on Athir having different values though. Granted I don't know the values of your family section of the tribe. What would they have problems with? That he's venturing out for awhile to gain experiences for the tribe and make it grow? I can see that happen yes from a certain point of view

Khaze'to Zhwan · **08-28-2013, 04:43 AM**

(08-28-2013, 04:33 AM)Mr.Bear Wrote: I'm not saying i'm the representative, you just made it sound that because I wasn't a part of your particular section of the tribe there would be tribal differences with me, or might be.

Which sounded a little weird, seeing as I would consider the tribe unified on traditions and ways. Unless the tribe has a troublemaking element of sorts in the form of bad leadership or a bad Nunh/Tia. Which is possible ofcourse, but i'm not aware of any yet.

I'm not saying he introduces himself a Nunh though, not outside the Tribe anyway. I do consider him to have achieved the title of Nunh sometime in the past in the Hipparion Tribe (though not necesarily your section of it, but you are part of the same tribe) If such a said Nunh came back from travels and brought back valuable lessons and experiences, and might have even strengthened himself from those experiences, I'd think he'd have a good chance of still being recognized of being a Nunh if he brought sufficient females back also.

Not only did he make the tribe grow in that case, he made sure to learn valuable experiences and lessons that the tribe might use. In my eyes that represents strength and capability, don't you think?

If you want to play as your character with your background that's fine, not a problem but we have set up tribal rules for our branch of the family and yours don't (from what you have said) align with ours completely. Â Hence the differences and such.

The fact that he could just wonder back into being a Nunh after being away is one. Â Another is that you are finding females from outside of the tribe. Â In ours thats a huge taboo. Â look hereÂ for the tribal wiki. Â Im not saying that yours is a monsteror anything or that the values are wildly different.

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Hipparion tribe - organization & discussion

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