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Sigyn Shieldbreaker · **09-11-2013, 08:58 PM**

(09-11-2013, 08:50 PM)K Wrote: I don't think its a matter of them not seeing sex as a big deal but rather that their cultural upbringing leads them to have tendencies and sexual attraction to stronger males.

@Siobhain
And while that is true, I don't think that if we were to use the example of said FATE then we can really see it as an empowering profession over a demeaning attempt at fan service.

"Don't worry, milord/master.. we have ALL night"

Ugh... I'm just really defensive since my main is a miqo'te. In actual fact, I have a hyur who will be well acquainted with courtesans in his spare time and its not like I am saying that miqo'tes shouldn't be courtesans... but as was pointed out by a few people already, it seems to be a strong theme that they are the 'favourite' race to be picked on for this particular side of things which is not something I am fond of.

Â You make a good point about their, perhaps, natural attraction to stronger individuals. I've got to defer to that point.

Â I think in this case, the character races are much like (as some people have pointed out) different communities in the world. Since we're all human, we're all the same species, so I can't say we're different races. Miqo'tes are the only race with substantially more women than men; that's going to make them culturally different, which we know. There hasn't been nearly so much said about any of the other races in reference to gender. Their race or at least a sub-race, are undoubtedly attractive to many of the races with more males and would be a higher commodity. Miqo'tes surely don't always have to be floozies but at the same time we have to remember that SE might not even be referencing the common Western outlook on such things. I mean, I've had it thrown at me multiple times that they're a Japanese company. They like their fanservice, yes, it's undoubtedly fanservice, yes.

You could take a Lalafell or a Hyur Midlander girl. But are you -really- going to take a Roegadyn or a Highlander woman and try to make them into slaves against their will? I'm sure it happens and some have personalities more set for it and others had to sell themselves into slavery, surely, to pay off familial debts, but otherwise if you're going around enslaving people-- Well. I'm Thai and I've heard many many times from my mother, grandmother, and aunts about how, where they come from in Thailand, parents are -still- forced to sell their daughters in order to make ends meet and to prevent being killed or made homeless by gangs.

It's terrible, it's sad, but it's been that way for a very long time.

I prefer to think of tayu, oiiran, and geisha when I think of Miqo'tes rather than thinking of Thai girls.

Theila Durain · **09-11-2013, 09:01 PM**

Sunseeker females are the most likely to be sexually frustrated of all the race/gender combo's, with the only male "relations" being with their Nunh (and woe to you if your Nunh is related to you). It's not hard to imagine that the apparant freedom of choice in being a concubine might appeal to them.

There's also that subtle underlying hint of racism toward Miqo'te as well.

Cato · **09-11-2013, 09:01 PM**

It's hard to explain exactly, but it really bothers me when a 'pretty' race is paired with a bigger and/or uglier race with the implication being that because they're bigger and/or uglier they're somehow sexier and stronger.

I had the exact same pet peeve back in WoW where you were more likely to see a blood elf or high elf paired with a human instead of another elf...even though the lore was geared towards showing them as being xenophobic and repeatedly betrayed by humans.

Oroban · **09-11-2013, 09:02 PM**

Also Siobhain, it'd take a pretty sexy Roegadyn to make me take up weaving, just saying.

Then again, my character likes taller women since his mother dwarfed his father, so who knows! Laugh

Jove · **09-11-2013, 09:04 PM**

I can't say I've noticed the above, but the Arcanist guild quests definitely seems to touch on this subject, which without spoiling things, deals with the slave trade and paints a female Miqo'te in a positive light (intelligent, leader of a team, respected).

There's also Y'shtola, the most badass Scion. Two out... of a represented population ain't bad, right? Right?

Cato · **09-11-2013, 09:07 PM**

(09-11-2013, 09:04 PM)Jove Wrote: I can't say I've noticed the above, but the Arcanist guild quests definitely seems to touch on this subject, which without spoiling things, deals with the slave trade and paints a female Miqo'te in a positive light (intelligent, leader of a team, respected).

There's also Y'shtola, the most badass Scion. Two out... of a represented population ain't bad, right? Right?

I adore Y'shtola. She's probably the best representation of a miqo'te that I've seen so far. I just wish more NPC's were portrayed in a similar manner.

K'nahli · **09-11-2013, 09:08 PM**

(09-11-2013, 08:58 PM)Siobhain Wrote: You make a good point about their, perhaps, natural attraction to stronger individuals. I've got to defer to that point.

Â I think in this case, the character races are much like (as some people have pointed out) different communities in the world. Since we're all human, we're all the same species, so I can't say we're different races. Miqo'tes are the only race with substantially more women than men; that's going to make them culturally different, which we know. There hasn't been nearly so much said about any of the other races in reference to gender. Their race or at least a sub-race, are undoubtedly attractive to many of the races with more males and would be a higher commodity. Miqo'tes surely don't always have to be floozies but at the same time we have to remember that SE might not even be referencing the common Western outlook on such things. I mean, I've had it thrown at me multiple times that they're a Japanese company. They like their fanservice, yes, it's undoubtedly fanservice, yes.

You could take a Lalafell or a Hyur Midlander girl. But are you -really- going to take a Roegadyn or a Highlander woman and try to make them into slaves against their will? I'm sure it happens and some have personalities more set for it and others had to sell themselves into slavery, surely, to pay off familial debts, but otherwise if you're going around enslaving people-- Well. I'm Thai and I've heard many many times from my mother, grandmother, and aunts about how, where they come from in Thailand, parents are -still- forced to sell their daughters in order to make ends meet and to prevent being killed or made homeless by gangs.

It's terrible, it's sad, but it's been that way for a very long time.

I prefer to think of tayu, oiiran, and geisha when I think of Miqo'tes rather than thinking of Thai girls.

No, I'm not surprised at all that they picked on Miqo'te. Cat ears and such are a recurring theme in light-hearted animes so I guess it has become a sort of a thing in Japan(I don't want to say fetish, but perhaps..).

Â I am not questioning it at all, everything makes sense to me in a way. Miqo'tes are cute, there's the aforementioned cat-theme in Japan and then theres also the fact that males are still the largest audience when it comes to gaming and these games are going to include such references and "easter eggs" to keep the typical males happy and get a kick out of encountering them.

Its just unfortunate for us ;w;

Edit:
Y'shtola is awesome. I love her to bits.

To:
Y'shtola

Show Content

From:
J'hared, Logan and K'nahli.

Aysun · **09-11-2013, 09:10 PM**

(09-11-2013, 08:08 PM)Moondoggie Wrote: What i mean is how the NPC's are represented. Like 90% of Miqo'te women are either prostitutes,slaves,erotic dancers or just all three. There is even a fate where you escort a Miqo'te prostitute to her customer who then shows his pleasure with a rude gesture. Does anyone else find it a little...I dunno annoying? XD

Here's the thing. This race is not ours. It is SE's. They can do what they want with it. The Miqo'tes are being represented how they SHOULD be represented. It's lore that many of them are like that. Seekers are whores, pirates, bar-wenches, fishers, dancers, adventurers, yellow-jackets, Maelstrom recruits, and sisters in the desert. That is what they are.

Something I've been seeing a lot lately has been the 'modifying' of a races' lore to suit peoples' tastes rather than working WITH the lore to create an interesting character. If you don't like the race's lore, don't play it. Don't try to make it something else because you like how catgirls look and you don't like how SE made them.

/endrant

Sigyn Shieldbreaker · **09-11-2013, 09:11 PM**

(09-11-2013, 09:01 PM)J Wrote: It's hard to explain exactly, but it really bothers me when a 'pretty' race is paired with a bigger and/or uglier race with the implication being that because they're bigger and/or uglier they're somehow sexier and stronger.

I had the exact same pet peeve back in WoW where you were more likely to see a blood elf or high elf paired with a human instead of another elf...even though the lore was geared towards showing them as being xenophobic and repeatedly betrayed by humans.

A big thing was Trolls/Elves or Orcs/Elves too. I mean, aesthetically... yes, it appeals to me. While personally I don't pick my significant other based on looks alone IRL, -looking- at a male that's substantially taller than a female appeals to me. There's something about it that makes a feminine character more feminine or makes them special because they could stand up to a big ol' tusked Troll and earn enough of their respect to actually form a mutual love despite being tiny like a teacup poodle.

Still, I know it's overdone and when it becomes the norm it becomes... painful. Unlike in WoW, however, there are a -lot- of cases in FFXIV where, in-game, they show interracial pairings. All of my characters in WoW, Night Elves, Orcs, Trolls, or Belfs, have had a strong stance against interracial breeding for different reasons. My Nelf was an ex-Sentinel who did not care for any of the other races, particularly humans because she felt that her strong people were being used as tools to advance the human agenda. My Orcs and Trolls simply weren't interested in anything with soft skin and pointy ears-- it simply didn't appeal to them. My Belfs were usually more concerned about seeing their kin reproducing and repopulating their people instead of being selfish and getting together with some non-Elf out of something frivolous like -love-. *hair toss*

In this case, there's a very good chance with how things are going, that my Roegadyn female -MAY- end up falling for a smaller male. Not because I love many of their models (which I do) but because she has a natural aversion towards males of her race based on many poor experiences in her past (which could TOTALLY change) and doesn't see any reason or desire to become a mother or wife over being in love. Her interest isn't in physical satisfaction whatsoever-- she simply doesn't care for it-- but she does have the capacity to love someone that she feels is genuine, strong, and of good moral fiber. She doesn't care what race or even what gender they are; or even that she might spend the rest of her life in something like a dedicated, non-physical relationship out of true love.

So, my point is, that while I can see the appeal of larger males with smaller females, larger females with smaller males is also not bothersome for me (or for many people, MUCH less appealing). Roes are big strong lasses. Miqo'tes are tiny and cute. Men sometimes prefer tiny and cute. This is likely the case in Eorzea too, especially when you're a Roegadyn and you're tired of your women beating you up all the time.

@ Oroban- You won't find one sexier! Unless it's uh... Lost River... or Beatrice...or.... *continues on down the list*

K'nahli · **09-11-2013, 09:14 PM**

(09-11-2013, 09:10 PM)Aysun Wrote:
(09-11-2013, 08:08 PM)Moondoggie Wrote: What i mean is how the NPC's are represented. Like 90% of Miqo'te women are either prostitutes,slaves,erotic dancers or just all three. There is even a fate where you escort a Miqo'te prostitute to her customer who then shows his pleasure with a rude gesture. Does anyone else find it a little...I dunno annoying? XD

Here's the thing. This race is not ours. It is SE's. They can do what they want with it. The Miqo'tes are being represented how they SHOULD be represented. It's lore that many of them are like that. Seekers are whores, pirates, bar-wenches, fishers, dancers, adventurers, yellow-jackets, Maelstrom recruits, and sisters in the desert. That is what they are.

Something I've been seeing a lot lately has been the 'modifying' of a races' lore to suit peoples' tastes rather than working WITH the lore to create an interesting character. If you don't like the race's lore, don't play it. Don't try to make it something else because you like how catgirls look and you don't like how SE made them.

/endrant

The point being made is that they are portrayed as whores here and there just for the sake of fan service when in actual fact the lore would imply otherwise if at all. So it is SE who are adding little pet peeves on to a race just so gamers can get a kick out of it as they pass through.

Aysun · **09-11-2013, 09:18 PM**

(09-11-2013, 09:14 PM)K Wrote:
(09-11-2013, 09:10 PM)Aysun Wrote:
(09-11-2013, 08:08 PM)Moondoggie Wrote: What i mean is how the NPC's are represented. Like 90% of Miqo'te women are either prostitutes,slaves,erotic dancers or just all three. There is even a fate where you escort a Miqo'te prostitute to her customer who then shows his pleasure with a rude gesture. Does anyone else find it a little...I dunno annoying? XD

Here's the thing. This race is not ours. It is SE's. They can do what they want with it. The Miqo'tes are being represented how they SHOULD be represented. It's lore that many of them are like that. Seekers are whores, pirates, bar-wenches, fishers, dancers, adventurers, yellow-jackets, Maelstrom recruits, and sisters in the desert. That is what they are.

Something I've been seeing a lot lately has been the 'modifying' of a races' lore to suit peoples' tastes rather than working WITH the lore to create an interesting character. If you don't like the race's lore, don't play it. Don't try to make it something else because you like how catgirls look and you don't like how SE made them.

/endrant

The point being made is that they are portrayed as whores here and there just for the sake of fan service when in actual fact the lore would imply otherwise if at all.

The point I'm making is even if it is for "fan service" as well, it is part of lore in game. Therefore it makes no sense to say that the lore would imply otherwise.

Sigyn Shieldbreaker · **09-11-2013, 09:21 PM**

(09-11-2013, 09:18 PM)Aysun Wrote:
(09-11-2013, 09:14 PM)K Wrote:
(09-11-2013, 09:10 PM)Aysun Wrote:
(09-11-2013, 08:08 PM)Moondoggie Wrote: What i mean is how the NPC's are represented. Like 90% of Miqo'te women are either prostitutes,slaves,erotic dancers or just all three. There is even a fate where you escort a Miqo'te prostitute to her customer who then shows his pleasure with a rude gesture. Does anyone else find it a little...I dunno annoying? XD

Here's the thing. This race is not ours. It is SE's. They can do what they want with it. The Miqo'tes are being represented how they SHOULD be represented. It's lore that many of them are like that. Seekers are whores, pirates, bar-wenches, fishers, dancers, adventurers, yellow-jackets, Maelstrom recruits, and sisters in the desert. That is what they are.

Something I've been seeing a lot lately has been the 'modifying' of a races' lore to suit peoples' tastes rather than working WITH the lore to create an interesting character. If you don't like the race's lore, don't play it. Don't try to make it something else because you like how catgirls look and you don't like how SE made them.

/endrant

The point being made is that they are portrayed as whores here and there just for the sake of fan service when in actual fact the lore would imply otherwise if at all.

The point I'm making is even if it is for "fan service" as well, it is part of lore in game. Therefore it makes no sense to say that the lore would imply otherwise.

Â Aysun's making a pretty good point. Though any MMO can be like WoW with their easter eggs, in the case of Miqo'tes there -isn't- anything in lore that supports them -not- having many individuals in their race who turn to or are forcibly turned to (as is a very likely case) what you consider to be demeaning. Being a strong matriarchal race doesn't automatically say that you refuse to breed out of anything short of love or dedication to your people and your honor.

Fanservice or not, there really isn't any substantial conflict.

allgivenover · **09-11-2013, 09:21 PM**

I think it's actually pretty well thought out myself, how Seekers are depicted in game. There's been a mountain of debate already in this forum about it, and it seems we're destined to debate it again. Which is alright I suppose.

A good number of Seekers are sex workers or downright bold about their desires, and you see it pretty much throughout Eorzea. The latter is even found in the U' tribe in the Sagoli, where a Seeker girl comments that she wouldn't mind you peeking at her bathing.

However, there's also a good amount of Seekers who don't show any signs of being lustful or a sex worker. My take on it is that in Seeker culture, sex isn't nearly as taboo or as closely tied with shame (like in modern real world culture) as it is in other Eorzean race's culture, and Seekers themselves vary wildly in personality and disposition. Some of them are perhaps more guarded about their sexuality, while others see no issue whatsoever with monetizing it. In that way I think SE has done a pretty good job of presenting how a race that likely holds few taboos regarding sexuality would interact with races that do have taboos about it. The other races that deal with social taboos regarding casual flings or have feelings of shame tied up with sexuality would be more likely to solicit prostitutes to deal with sexual frustration (and indeed, there is a correlation in the real world between populations that are more religious or traditional on the whole and the solicitation of prostitutes or the usage of pornography). Thus, Seekers who have no qualms about monetizing their sexuality have no shortage of eager customers.

Just keep in mind that these alien cultural norms do not reflect on your character negatively. This is a race of cat inspired people we're talking about here (and cats are not exactly monogamous, with kittens of the same litter often having different fathers). As stated before, Seekers seem to vary wildly in personality, and just as other humans monetizing their sexuality in the real world does not negatively represent you so it goes with your character and Seekers that do so.

K'nahli · **09-11-2013, 09:23 PM**

But no, thats not what I mean. I don't have enough experience to argue about this too much but I don't think I am arrogant to say that not everything in-game can be taken as lore because there are some things that contradict each other. Dialogue for minor scenes and sub-quests are likely handled by a completely different team who aren't too fussed about how, in this case, Miqo'tes are represented so long as none of the main themes are broken.

If we were to take absolutely everything said in-game to be absolute truth then I am sure soon enough things would be drowning in contradictions and no-one would know what to believe. I'd rather follow the information that I've learned from this forum(which was collected from elsewhere) as the actual official word rather than what some random staff members decided to go with for a quest line in terms of dialogue. Not forgetting that English dialogue is altered considerably from Japanese version.

Quote:presenting how a race that likely holds few taboos regarding sexuality would interact with races that do have taboos about it

This sounds highly likely to me, I like your point.

Aysun · **09-11-2013, 09:26 PM**

(09-11-2013, 09:23 PM)K Wrote: But no, thats not what I mean. I don't have enough experience to argue about this too much but I don't think I am arrogant to say that not everything in-game can be taken as lore because there are some things that contradict each other. Dialogue for minor scenes and sub-quests are likely handled by a completely different team who aren't too fussed about how, in this case, Miqo'tes are represented so long as none of the main themes are broken.

If we were to take absolutely everything said in-game to be absolute truth then I am sure soon enough things would be drowning in contradictions and no-one would know what to believe. I'd rather follow the information that I've learned from this forum(which was collected from elsewhere) as the actual official word rather than what some random staff members decided to go with for a quest line in terms of dialogue. Not forgetting that English dialogue is altered considerably from Japanese version.

What you have to remember is that the contradictions are going to happen for legitimate reasons. Seekers, for example, do not all live in tribes anymore. There are significant numbers that are off in Limsa, or being pirates, or whores, or dancers, etc. There are reasons for the different lifestyles, and those reasons are what we can latch onto to make awesome, unique, characters, while staying true to the Seeker lore, instead of making our own because we want to play catgirls.

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Does anyone else get kind of annoyed at how Miqo'te are represented in the world?

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes