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K'nahli · **09-11-2013, 09:30 PM**

(09-11-2013, 09:26 PM)Aysun Wrote:
(09-11-2013, 09:23 PM)K Wrote: But no, thats not what I mean. I don't have enough experience to argue about this too much but I don't think I am arrogant to say that not everything in-game can be taken as lore because there are some things that contradict each other. Dialogue for minor scenes and sub-quests are likely handled by a completely different team who aren't too fussed about how, in this case, Miqo'tes are represented so long as none of the main themes are broken.

If we were to take absolutely everything said in-game to be absolute truth then I am sure soon enough things would be drowning in contradictions and no-one would know what to believe. I'd rather follow the information that I've learned from this forum(which was collected from elsewhere) as the actual official word rather than what some random staff members decided to go with for a quest line in terms of dialogue. Not forgetting that English dialogue is altered considerably from Japanese version.

What you have to remember is that the contradictions are going to happen for legitimate reasons. Seekers, for example, do not all live in tribes anymore. There are significant numbers that are off in Limsa, or being pirates, or whores, or dancers, etc. There are reasons for the different lifestyles, and those reasons are what we can latch onto to make awesome, unique, characters, while staying true to the Seeker lore, instead of making our own because we want to play catgirls.

That is also quite true, but it doesn't make me any happier about it, eheh. Nor do I feel fully content that it wasn't just a tasteless(interpretive) attempt at fan service with no real reference to the way the majority of Seekers may choose to behave in Eorzea but all I am here for is to say that it was not something I was happy to see, even were it 100% intentional.

Aysun · **09-11-2013, 09:32 PM**

(09-11-2013, 09:30 PM)K Wrote:
(09-11-2013, 09:26 PM)Aysun Wrote:
(09-11-2013, 09:23 PM)K Wrote: But no, thats not what I mean. I don't have enough experience to argue about this too much but I don't think I am arrogant to say that not everything in-game can be taken as lore because there are some things that contradict each other. Dialogue for minor scenes and sub-quests are likely handled by a completely different team who aren't too fussed about how, in this case, Miqo'tes are represented so long as none of the main themes are broken.

If we were to take absolutely everything said in-game to be absolute truth then I am sure soon enough things would be drowning in contradictions and no-one would know what to believe. I'd rather follow the information that I've learned from this forum(which was collected from elsewhere) as the actual official word rather than what some random staff members decided to go with for a quest line in terms of dialogue. Not forgetting that English dialogue is altered considerably from Japanese version.

What you have to remember is that the contradictions are going to happen for legitimate reasons. Seekers, for example, do not all live in tribes anymore. There are significant numbers that are off in Limsa, or being pirates, or whores, or dancers, etc. There are reasons for the different lifestyles, and those reasons are what we can latch onto to make awesome, unique, characters, while staying true to the Seeker lore, instead of making our own because we want to play catgirls.

That is also quite true, but it doesn't make me any happier about it, eheh. Nor do I feel fully content that it wasn't just a tasteless(interpretive) attempt at fan service with no real reference to the way the majority of Seekers may choose to behave in Eorzea but all I am here for is to say that it was not something I was happy to see, even were it 100% intentional.

Thus returns to my original point: why do people play them if they don't like what they are? Wink

Lament · **09-11-2013, 09:37 PM**

Actually, that a lot of female Seeker Miqo'te turn to prostitution and/or otherwise making a living off of their bodies isn't terribly unusual, if you consider the Seeker lore.

It's implied Miqo'te are tribal. Seekers are part of patriarchal tribes, for the most part, and it's the strongest male that gets selected for breeding, which does tend to mean females are inferior in their hierarchy - it implies that they consider the male to be more important to the child being desirable than the female. Basically, the females in terms of breeding are vessels for the Nunh's strong offspring.

Most of the Miqo'te NPCs we see out there are females. And we see them away from their tribes, integrated into other races' worlds - they are, essentially, foreigners. They leave their tribes with likely nothing to their name other than whatever skills they possess. If they're good fighters, cool, they can end up as soldiers, or pirates, or mercenaries (we see quite a few of those). You could get lucky and land a job as a clerk or a tour guide, like we see in Limsa. Or you could get unlucky and not land a job. And then you might turn to prostitution. You know where else that happens? Real life.

Sure, much of it may be fanservice - but it's fanservice that actually seems to fit with the lore, imo. Plus, to a female Seeker, the idea of sex with a stranger may not be as taboo as it would be to us. They do have to bear their Nunh's offspring, and I doubt every single female who's ever bred with a Nunh was attracted to him. It's a duty, probably mostly mechanical and impersonal... like prostitution tends to be.

Regarding the FATE, I don't think it's degrading so much as... well, pretending to be submissive and completely into your client is a thing that prostitutes do? Female ones especially, unless the client specifically has tastes for being dominated. It's part of the performance. And the client being a Roegadyn isn't terribly unusual either - it's not as though clients only ever seek prostitutes of their same race.

To me it's not terribly unlike the Asari in Mass Effect - a female-only alien race that is openly fetishized by pretty much every race ever, including humans. Yet you also see Asari doctors, scientists, warriors... some of the most intelligent, powerful and wise characters in the series are Asari. Yet some still choose to live as prostitutes - seems to me we shouldn't judge, just like we really shouldn't judge what leads someone to become a prostitute IRL.

BlessedSilence · **09-11-2013, 09:38 PM**

That's why I did not pick the race to play because they -are- very sexy (IMO) with not only looks but emotes as well. I have done the FATE in Costa many times but I guess I am just not bothered by those kind of things anymore.

But one has to keep in mind the culture who made the game as a whole. Â I'm sure if westerners made it there could be differences. I mean the Miqo'te I know like to drink Smile

Jove · **09-11-2013, 09:41 PM**

Maybe it's because I started in Limsa Lominsa, but I really didn't get this impression about Miqo'te females (I can't actually think of any Miqo'te males represented in Lominsa).

I mean the very first cutscene while you're on the boat features two respectful looking Miqo'te females sitting there, chatting away and then of course you're attacked by pirates (easy to see how slaves are obtained).

But once I was in Lominsa, all I saw were female Miqo'te guards, the chief armorsmith, those working at the Bismark, some more very capable guards at the Coral Tower, fisherwomen, traders and this one girl that a very nervous Hyur male was meekishly trying to ask out... all female Miqo'te, none of them selling their bodies or being slaved. All strong characters.

You see the exact same thing outside of Lominsa, and it's also represented in the Arcanist story quests.

I'm not saying all female Miqo'te in Limsa Lominsa are decent citizens with respectable jobs, I mean it is a home of pirates after all, but the overall impression I got was not the same as in the OP. So is it a regional thing? I can't say, I've not really explored Thanalan.

It's the same with the Roegadyn though, a lot of quests and dealings around Lominsa would have me believe that most Roes are or were pirates, but you see an equal number of them as guards, merchants, builders and basically white knights.

I don't know, it just seems like a lot of facets of every culture is represented, depending on the location.

Aysun · **09-11-2013, 09:45 PM**

(09-11-2013, 09:41 PM)Jove Wrote: Maybe it's because I started in Limsa Lominsa, but I really didn't get this impression about Miqo'te females (I can't actually think of any Miqo'te males represented in Lominsa).

I mean the very first cutscene while you're on the boat features two respectful looking Miqo'te females sitting there, chatting away and then of course you're attacked by pirates (easy to see how slaves are obtained).

But once I was in Lominsa, all I saw were female Miqo'te guards, the chief armorsmith, those working at the Bismark, some more very capable guards at the Coral Tower, fisherwomen, traders and this one girl that a very nervous Hyur male was meekishly trying to ask out... all female Miqo'te, none of them selling their bodies or being slaved. All strong characters.

You see the exact same thing outside of Lominsa, and it's also represented in the Arcanist story quests.

I'm not saying all female Miqo'te in Limsa Lominsa are decent citizens with respectable jobs, I mean it is a home of pirates after all, but the overall impression I got was not the same as in the OP. So is it a regional thing? I can't say, I've not really explored Thanalan.

It's the same with the Roegadyn though, a lot of quests and dealings around Lominsa would have me believe that most Roes are or were pirates, but you see an equal number of them as guards, merchants, builders and basically white knights.

I don't know, it just seems like a lot of facets of every culture is represented, depending on the location.

I'm glad you noticed those ones! There are some that hang around as less-respectable looking ones as well, though, of course. The dancers are in Ul'dah and scattered elsewhere, they dance in not much for clothes. x3

K'nahli · **09-11-2013, 09:45 PM**

(09-11-2013, 09:32 PM)Aysu Wrote: Thus returns to my original point: why do people play them if they don't like what they are?

Because these themes only came to light in-game! As for myself, I only discovered the FATE a few days ago. Anywho, something like this wouldn't deter me from the race or make me change my character after everything leading up until now. A stereotype does not define my character and there are many reputable miqo'tes/sunseekers in game as well. I just disliked how many Sunseekers were being portrayed ^^/ It felt it was stealing something from the innocence and beauty of all the PC miqo'tes I have seen.

Lost River · **09-11-2013, 09:50 PM**

With me, I also think it comes with the territory. Mainly in Ul'dah you'll see the underbelly slum. Almost like Babylon, Jabba's Palace from Star Wars, and a few other historic pieces in the middle east. So prostitution would be more suitable in such a place, it does have a nation focusing on Power and Wealth. As well as a crime syndicate.Â

Also, I think it goes with their race (species), after all, they are not of the human species, so in aspect, not all of their attributes will be entitled to a human mindset. As well as the time it's associated with, prostitution and such was more common place as well seen as power.

The game also has it's dark spots too, as does real life. Do I find it bad with such a FATE? No, unfortunate but not bad. Also remember what happens to the parties that go to the dungeons? I do, so grimly.Â

As for sexy Roes. You have one right here. *flexes her sexiness*

Also, cats are promiscuous biologically, so why can't Miqo'te share that feline trait?

K'nahli · **09-11-2013, 09:58 PM**

*covers ears with hands*

"LALALALALA~ LALALALALA~"

Hyunseo · **09-11-2013, 09:59 PM**

I'm not sure if this was brung up before, so I'm sorry if this has been brought up.

I find it kind of annoying when it comes to the Miqo'tes found in the Archer's Guild quests. It seems that if a Miqo'te isn't a harlot, she's a ne'er-do-well who causes all sorts of trouble for the Gods' Quiver and the Gridanians. And to make matters worse, said NPC is one of the only dark-skinned Miqo'tes, too.

And although I find it empowering that she happens to be the leader of her little gang of 'sisters', I feel like her 'villainy' is moreso laughable than someone to be reckoned with. It's kind of disappointing.

I won't go too deep about it, though. Maybe it gets better the further I level for the story quest.

Oroban · **09-11-2013, 10:01 PM**

All dem sexy Roes, Khyros is going to stammer himself to death.

But yeah, outside of the Ul'dahn/Costa Del Sol areas, you do see a lot less of the seedy presentation of the race spread out all over. I mean, even in Costa Del Sol, Gegeruju's aide is a Miqo'te, and I took her completely seriously despite the sexy secretary getup. And yes, Y'shtola is amazing.

K'nahli · **09-11-2013, 10:04 PM**

(09-11-2013, 09:59 PM)Hyunseo Wrote: I'm not sure if this was brung up before, so I'm sorry if this has been brought up.

I find it kind of annoying when it comes to the Miqo'tes found in the Archer's Guild quests. It seems that if a Miqo'te isn't a harlot, she's a ne'er-do-well who causes all sorts of trouble for the Gods' Quiver and the Gridanians. And to make matters worse, said NPC is one of the only dark-skinned Miqo'tes, too.

And although I find it empowering that she happens to be the leader of her little gang of 'sisters', I feel like her 'villainy' is moreso laughable than someone to be reckoned with. It's kind of disappointing.

I won't go too deep about it, though. Maybe it gets better the further I level for the story quest.

What?! I love that character! She's so funny without meaning to be. I love her cocky attitude, it's so awesome.

Show Content

That expression and silliness when confronted is just brilliant.

Lament · **09-11-2013, 10:04 PM**

Since the FATE example came up, here's another example you encounter much earlier:

If you pay attention when running Sastasha, you'll notice a couple of things:

- There are a lot of female NPCs dressed as maids in there.
- The captain specifically asks where his 'maidens' are.
- One pirate NPC shouts to 'take the women alive'.
- A few of the NPCs have little dialogue bubbles which make a very interesting story. When you enter the captain's chambers, a maid asks what the captain would like today - then realizes you're not the captain. One female swears she is not one of the pirates, 'on what little is left of her honor'. Another (a Lalafell, to be specific) pleads for you to help them.

It's obviously implied the captain kidnapped those women (regardless of whether they were prostitutes or not) and forced them into servitude, likely sexual slavery too, based on the little honor left bit. Yet one of them still cheerily asks what the captain would like today - likely because if she tried to resist or was rude, she would get punished for it.

The game really makes no effort to skirt around the more mature topics, and while Miqo'te may be portrayed in that light more often, and that one Miqo'te's client was a Roegadyn... we have a sleazy captain (Hyur or Roegadyn, I can't remember right now) with Hyur, Miqo'te and Lalafell in his service, too.

K'nahli · **09-11-2013, 10:07 PM**

We can't hide from mature themes just because they are unpleasant to imagine though. I noticed the same things in Satasha but it didn't really bother me. Well, I felt bad for the woman who spoke of her honour though.

Hyunseo · **09-11-2013, 10:11 PM**

(09-11-2013, 10:04 PM)Knahli Wrote: What?! I love that character! She's so funny without meaning to be. I love her cocky attitude, it's so awesome.

Show Content

Spoiler

That expression and silliness when confronted is just brilliant.

I think she's gorgeous and funny, but she's funny without meaning to be. I suppose with the themes of the little story quest it's trying to tell, I expected her character to be more serious, while still managing to be spunky and witty.

Her badassery felt reduced to cartoonish half-assery than what I expected her to be like. I mean, I didn't expect her to be a Big Bad, but I did kind of expect her to be a lot more serious??? Or maybe a force to be taken more seriously??

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Does anyone else get kind of annoyed at how Miqo'te are represented in the world?

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes