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LeCard · **09-11-2013, 11:13 PM**

(09-11-2013, 11:09 PM)Aleister Wrote: Also.. Not trying to sound mean or anything but why is there a thread for this? :l Dps queues have always been like this in any mmo with a 'duty finder'. Just gotta befriend a tank or healer and ask them/join them when they do stuff.. Saves the hassle with dealing with annoying derpy randoms.

I actually haven't really had an issue with Durpy randoms, just the 30-65 min. wait time that que as a DPS guarantees you.

I think i've had one or two tank/healer associated issues with randoms, but aside from that it's all good groups. (and by problems I mean tank thinks their god or healer isn't paying attention/DCs)

DAISHI · **09-11-2013, 11:17 PM**

(09-11-2013, 11:09 PM)Aleister Wrote:
(09-11-2013, 03:31 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:
(09-11-2013, 06:43 AM)Rahal Wrote: It's not too bad at Lv50. BLM, DRG, MNK and BRD are all in high demand so you rarely have any issue with getting into a group as one if you ask around.

The main issue is that the average player is bad at teamwork. People tend to take on a "well it's his/her problem" mentality when it comes to taking responsibility in a group.

Let's use a patrol linking to a fight with a 4 man group of a WAR, WHM, BLM and MNK as an example. The patrol charges at the party, aggros the WHM due to healing aggro and kills him/her, resulting in a messy wipe. Whose fault is this?

The WAR, for picking a bad place to fight and not picking up the adds?

The WHM, for not Reposing the patrol as they got close and not running to the tank with the adds they aggro'd?

The BLM, for not using Sleep or Freeze to stop the patrol and controlling the adds in the first place?

The MNK, for fighting too close and not off tanking the patrol?

If you answered 5: All of the above, then you would be correct. Everyone needs to take responsibility. Rinh is completely right. People need to earn how to work together as a team and take responsibility and not only that, take initiative. I've prevented many messy wipes by being proactive with my Sleep on nearby patrols on BLM for example.

Disagree. Â From a healing perspective, if I Repose a mob in a group, the rest immediately aggro on me. Â Even if I get to the tank in time, 9 times out of 10, he won't be able to pull them off me fast enough to keep me from dying. Â The best thing for me, as a healer, to do is to simply run to the other side of the tank and pray. Â Even if I hit Shroud of Saints, if I'm the only person with threat on those adds (and I will be if I'm healing the tank, which I will almost certainly be doing since we're dealing with another pack), it won't matter. Â They'll still come straight for me. Â And because Regen is a primary mana-saving healing tool, there's an extremely high probability that I'll get threat before anyone else no matter what I do - because I can't click the HoT off another player. Â They have to do that themselves, and by the time they do (assuming they even think to do so), it's too late.

So honestly, as a WHM, there's not a hell of a lot I can do to control anything in this situation, especially if the tank is already being beaten on (since I can't really stop for 3 seconds to try to get a Repose off that one of the DPS or the tank is going to break almost immediately) and risk the tank dropping.

The bulk of the blame is just basically situational awareness. Â If you see a patrol approaching, the best thing to do would be to back away. Â But the tanking game being as it is, it's hard to watch chat, the area around you, and do your job, so I can't completely blame the tank.

Wipes happen.
I agree with her on this...

Also.. Not trying to sound mean or anything but why is there a thread for this? :l Dps queues have always been like this in any mmo with a 'duty finder'. Just gotta befriend a tank or healer and ask them/join them when they do stuff.. Saves the hassle with dealing with annoying derpy randoms.

Edit: Also I'm a Warrior tank and if you need a queue for any dungeon 1-50 (Except AK.. I tend only to do that annoying place with people I know a bit, sorry.) Hit me up and if I'm not busy or anything I most likely will not decline your request for help. I <3 the Titan fight btw.. Just saiyan.

Because people can make a thread about anything they feel like discussing.

Lost River · **09-11-2013, 11:19 PM**

Because I could want to, and I know playing DPS will have a longer queue. But when that queue goes past the norm as to what a DPS is (as I posted originally) I decided to say something about it. I don't mind waiting 15 - 35 minutes for DPS, but when that nearly stretches into a two hour mark, something isn't right.

Aleister · **09-11-2013, 11:22 PM**

(09-11-2013, 11:13 PM)LeCard Wrote:
(09-11-2013, 11:09 PM)Aleister Wrote: Also.. Not trying to sound mean or anything but why is there a thread for this? :l Dps queues have always been like this in any mmo with a 'duty finder'. Just gotta befriend a tank or healer and ask them/join them when they do stuff.. Saves the hassle with dealing with annoying derpy randoms.
I actually haven't really had an issue with Durpy randoms, just the 30-65 min. wait time that que as a DPS guarantees you.

I think i've had one or two tank/healer associated issues with randoms, but aside from that it's all good groups. (and by problems I mean tank thinks their god or healer isn't paying attention/DCs)

Everyone should be aware of the time they'll spend in the queue as a dps is what I'm saying cause of other games. The majority of the players playing are dps and out populate the ones playing tank/healers afterall. this goes especially for the primal trial fights.. No one is gonna do it again once they cleared it cause SE decided not to give regular fights any rewards.. Which is bad of course cause its a storyline quest. It is to be expected which is where community kicks in you know? Like RPC.. Great community, wouldn't be hard asking for help on here right?

I haven't had much issues with derpies either.. I deal with random assholes I get queued with on AK and Ifrit HM so much that I refuse to deal with randoms end-game now.. 2 weeks into the game and we have elitist pricks ruining people's fun and putting down tanks/healers learning.

LeCard · **09-11-2013, 11:37 PM**

(09-11-2013, 11:22 PM)Aleister Wrote:
(09-11-2013, 11:13 PM)LeCard Wrote:
(09-11-2013, 11:09 PM)Aleister Wrote: Also.. Not trying to sound mean or anything but why is there a thread for this? :l Dps queues have always been like this in any mmo with a 'duty finder'. Just gotta befriend a tank or healer and ask them/join them when they do stuff.. Saves the hassle with dealing with annoying derpy randoms.
I actually haven't really had an issue with Durpy randoms, just the 30-65 min. wait time that que as a DPS guarantees you.

I think i've had one or two tank/healer associated issues with randoms, but aside from that it's all good groups. (and by problems I mean tank thinks their god or healer isn't paying attention/DCs)
Everyone should be aware of the time they'll spend in the queue as a dps is what I'm saying cause of other games. The majority of the players playing are dps and out populate the ones playing tank/healers after. It is to be expected which is where community kicks in you know? Like RPC.. Great community, wouldn't be hard asking for help on here right?

I haven't had much issues with derpies either.. I deal with random assholes I get queued with on AK and Ifrit HM so much that I refuse to deal with randoms end-game now.. 2 weeks into the game and we have elitist pricks ruining people's fun and putting down tanks/healers learning.

that's great for when you want to plan out your dungeon runs a day or two in advance(or if you are on during peak hours and have access to alot of people ready to do your dungeon.(and yes I've gotten lucky with getting help a couple times) But I shouldn't need to plan out my play week just to do a dungeon in a reasonable time.
Some times I want to craft, sometimes I want to hop into RP, and sometimes I just get tired of doing other stuff and want to blast through some story, but it is serious immersion break for story when you hit the iron wall of the duty finder. You run through 1-2 hours of story and having fun doing the little solo missions and BAM! you now have to set aside 2-3 hours for a 35-45 min dungeon(60 if you kill everything). and the better part of those 2-3 hours isn't even doing the story that you want.

I don't mind waiting, I don't mind finding a /sh party, and I love it when I can grab a LS/FC member(s) and running the dungeon. What I mind is spending more time in que for the dungeon than I spent(will spend) getting to (doing) the dungeon.

Lament · **09-12-2013, 12:37 AM**

DPS queues are cray, even for earlier dungeons. Tank or healer can land a party in seconds, DPS waits forever. I usually am healing or tanking so what I usually do if I need a dungeon is to ask in /say or /shout before going to Duty Finder, pick up a pair of DPS that have been waiting around, then queue up. This only gave me trouble once, was healing, landed two *very* bad DPS and one who was AFK nearly the whole run and then rolled greed on every single piece of caster gear (that he didn't deserve), which was pretty irritating, but otherwise I generally end up with a couple of really thankful and nice folks that way.

KitKat · **09-12-2013, 01:01 AM**

(09-12-2013, 12:37 AM)Lament Wrote: ...then rolled greed on every single piece of caster gear (that he didn't deserve)...

If you rolled Need, his Greed roll wouldn't even come up. I think it's commonplace where people just roll Greed on everything just because they'll eventually level another class. At least that's what I do (unless a party member realllly wants something, then I'll pass), but I'm generally queuing from the Dutyfinder LS.

BlessedSilence · **09-12-2013, 01:13 AM**

(09-10-2013, 07:34 PM)Teardrop Wrote: One of the things we try to do in our Free Company (Unsung Heroes) is pledge that no one be stuck in their story at the whims of the duty finder, and we create complete Free Company parties for pretty much everything multiple times daily . Â It's nice to be able to go through new content with friends and those you trust as well... though I realize not everyone has that option .

You don't have a Free Company listed in your information...maybe finding a home would help you .

My Free Company does this. Â Of course, as once of the only "full" healers in the fc, as I am now a White Mage ... they all look at me when a group needs to be madeÂ Huh

Hopefully more players will become more flexible and level a healing class. Â Or Squeenix will make moreÂ Laugh

(09-11-2013, 03:31 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: Disagree. Â From a healing perspective, if I Repose a mob in a group, the rest immediately aggro on me. Â Even if I get to the tank in time, 9 times out of 10, he won't be able to pull them off me fast enough to keep me from dying. Â The best thing for me, as a healer, to do is to simply run to the other side of the tank and pray. Â Even if I hit Shroud of Saints, if I'm the only person with threat on those adds (and I will be if I'm healing the tank, which I will almost certainly be doing since we're dealing with another pack), it won't matter. Â They'll still come straight for me. Â And because Regen is a primary mana-saving healing tool, there's an extremely high probability that I'll get threat before anyone else no matter what I do - because I can't click the HoT off another player. Â They have to do that themselves, and by the time they do (assuming they even think to do so), it's too late.

So honestly, as a WHM, there's not a hell of a lot I can do to control anything in this situation, especially if the tank is already being beaten on (since I can't really stop for 3 seconds to try to get a Repose off that one of the DPS or the tank is going to break almost immediately) and risk the tank dropping.

The bulk of the blame is just basically situational awareness. Â If you see a patrol approaching, the best thing to do would be to back away. Â But the tanking game being as it is, it's hard to watch chat, the area around you, and do your job, so I can't completely blame the tank.

Wipes happen.

OMG I cannot agree with this enough. Â As a CNJ turned WHM I swear I have a bullseye engraved on my forehead.

Every dungeon, any adds that pop ALWAYS aggro me and make a beeline. Â I could be picking my nose, doing nothing, and wham, 6 mobs on me. Â I tell my group before the fight, the adds will aggro me, every time. Â I hug my tank like he/she is my lifeline, praying they can get some AoE taunt off to grab the mobs.

So don't be so quick to blame the healer. Â We have it hard enough chain healing a tank with poop gear while trying to keep ourselves up.Â Cry

LeCard · **09-12-2013, 04:49 AM**

(09-12-2013, 01:13 AM)BlessedSilence Wrote: So don't be so quick to blame the healer. Â We have it hard enough chain healing a tank with poop gear while trying to keep ourselves up.Â

There, There
What you need is a good ACN at your side with a carby. The ACN can command Carby to blow the add away(literally) and step in to heal the healer while the healer keeps the tank alive. I always keep an eye on our healer and I'm generally the first one to try and grab any adds that run after them. (and if it's too crazy I can always summon topaz and have a carby that's real good at stealing hate.)

P.S. A good ACN must always remember the pet bar and that they have control over who carby tries to kill and when carby uses their skills. also, if you keep emerald at the healers back you can throw the mob into the tank who can then grab the hate.

LiadansWhisper · **09-12-2013, 05:09 AM**

(09-12-2013, 01:13 AM)BlessedSilence Wrote: OMG I cannot agree with this enough. Â As a CNJ turned WHM I swear I have a bullseye engraved on my forehead.

Every dungeon, any adds that pop ALWAYS aggro me and make a beeline. Â I could be picking my nose, doing nothing, and wham, 6 mobs on me. Â I tell my group before the fight, the adds will aggro me, every time. Â I hug my tank like he/she is my lifeline, praying they can get some AoE taunt off to grab the mobs.

So don't be so quick to blame the healer. Â We have it hard enough chain healing a tank with poop gear while trying to keep ourselves up.Â

A couple of tips borne from experience as a healer in WoW, Rift, SWTOR, and now FFXIV:

1) Pre-cast Stoneskin will not give you threat when it absorbs damage. Â So after every pull - every single one! - you need to re-cast Stoneskin on the tank. Â If you're like me, you'll cast it on anyone who doesn't already have the debuff, just in case.

2) Delay doing any healing at all when at all possible. Â This includes Regen. Â Sit on your hands and bite your lip until the tank takes enough damage for you to get a fully-effective Cure. Â Then go into a healing rotation/priority list. Â Mine normally starts with Regen, and then follows up with Cure, weaving in Cure II when I get a proc (or the tank takes a spike).

3) Medica will pull everything and anything and generates more threat than Flash. Â Avoid, avoid, avoid at all costs! Â Unlike Cure, Cure II, and Regen, which build "healer threat" based on effective healing, Medica will generate threat based on both effective and overhealing - on everyone in the party who is in range. Â Including pets. Â If you have to use it, make sure to have Shroud of Saints ready to pop, and keep an eye on the threat meter.

4) Try to position yourself with the tank between you and the mobs. Â This isn't always possible, but it's definitely something to try to set up.

5) Remember that your primary job as a healer is to keep yourself alive. Â I know this sounds backwards, but it's the truth. Â You accomplish nothing by being dead. Â Even if the tank goes down, there's a possibility the DPS can offtank the rest of the trash or even the boss under the right circumstances. Â If you die, mostly likely everyone is going to die in the party. Â So watch your health bar and make sure to heal yourself early and often!

6) Don't be afraid to stop healing someone who is refusing to follow the strat, or causing trouble in the instance run. Â Every now and then you'll find someone who, for whatever reason, just can't play well with others. Â They're targeting every mob but the mob the tank tells them to DPS, and thus end up tanking half the trash pack. Â You tell them to stand at point A, and they make sure they're out in Bumblefuck Egypt instead. Â They're out of range. Â They're out of Line of Sight. Â You can't heal through walls. Â You've told them you can't fucking heal through walls three times. Â It doesn't seem to be sinking in. Â OKAY. Â THIS IS THE POINT WHERE THEY GET NO FURTHER HEALS.

Not a Cure. Â Not a Cure II. Â Not a Regen. Â And they probably aren't close enough to get hit with Medica anyway, so none of that, either! Â Don't waste your mana trying to heal stupid. Â You can't heal stupid.

Aleister · **09-12-2013, 05:17 AM**

(09-12-2013, 05:09 AM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:
(09-12-2013, 01:13 AM)BlessedSilence Wrote: OMG I cannot agree with this enough. Â As a CNJ turned WHM I swear I have a bullseye engraved on my forehead.

Every dungeon, any adds that pop ALWAYS aggro me and make a beeline. Â I could be picking my nose, doing nothing, and wham, 6 mobs on me. Â I tell my group before the fight, the adds will aggro me, every time. Â I hug my tank like he/she is my lifeline, praying they can get some AoE taunt off to grab the mobs.

So don't be so quick to blame the healer. Â We have it hard enough chain healing a tank with poop gear while trying to keep ourselves up.Â

A couple of tips borne from experience as a healer in WoW, Rift, SWTOR, and now FFXIV:

1) Pre-cast Stoneskin will not give you threat when it absorbs damage. Â So after every pull - every single one! - you need to re-cast Stoneskin on the tank. Â If you're like me, you'll cast it on anyone who doesn't already have the debuff, just in case.

2) Delay doing any healing at all when at all possible. Â This includes Regen. Â Sit on your hands and bite your lip until the tank takes enough damage for you to get a fully-effective Cure. Â Then go into a healing rotation/priority list. Â Mine normally starts with Regen, and then follows up with Cure, weaving in Cure II when I get a proc (or the tank takes a spike).

3) Medica will pull everything and anything and generates more threat than Flash. Â Avoid, avoid, avoid at all costs! Â Unlike Cure, Cure II, and Regen, which build "healer threat" based on effective healing, Medica will generate threat based on both effective and overhealing - on everyone in the party who is in range. Â Including pets. Â If you have to use it, make sure to have Shroud of Saints ready to pop, and keep an eye on the threat meter.

4) Try to position yourself with the tank between you and the mobs. Â This isn't always possible, but it's definitely something to try to set up.

5) Remember that your primary job as a healer is to keep yourself alive. Â I know this sounds backwards, but it's the truth. Â You accomplish nothing by being dead. Â Even if the tank goes down, there's a possibility the DPS can offtank the rest of the trash or even the boss under the right circumstances. Â If you die, mostly likely everyone is going to die in the party. Â So watch your health bar and make sure to heal yourself early and often!

6) Don't be afraid to stop healing someone who is refusing to follow the strat, or causing trouble in the instance run. Â Every now and then you'll find someone who, for whatever reason, just can't play well with others. Â They're targeting every mob but the mob the tank tells them to DPS, and thus end up tanking half the trash pack. Â You tell them to stand at point A, and they make sure they're out in Bumblefuck Egypt instead. Â They're out of range. Â They're out of Line of Sight. Â You can't heal through walls. Â You've told them you can't fucking heal through walls three times. Â It doesn't seem to be sinking in. Â OKAY. Â THIS IS THE POINT WHERE THEY GET NO FURTHER HEALS.

Not a Cure. Â Not a Cure II. Â Not a Regen. Â And they probably aren't close enough to get hit with Medica anyway, so none of that, either! Â Don't waste your mana trying to heal stupid. Â You can't heal stupid.

I like this healer.. Canz I make you pocket heals? Or can I be pocket tankz?

LiadansWhisper · **09-12-2013, 05:22 AM**

(09-12-2013, 05:17 AM)Aleister Wrote: I like this healer.. Canz I make you pocket heals? Or can I be pocket tankz?

LOL Sure! Â Wink

Just bear in mind that I'm currently raiding the new tier in WoW as well, so my evenings Sun-Thurs are booked from 6pm CST to 10pm CST. Â For horrible, terrible DEATH.

I should have gotten a picture of the giant flaming steel wheel running over my corpse earlier. Â Dodgy

Edit:

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Aleister · **09-12-2013, 05:40 AM**

(09-12-2013, 05:22 AM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:
(09-12-2013, 05:17 AM)Aleister Wrote: I like this healer.. Canz I make you pocket heals? Or can I be pocket tankz?

LOL Sure! Â

Just bear in mind that I'm currently raiding the new tier in WoW as well, so my evenings Sun-Thurs are booked from 6pm CST to 10pm CST. Â For horrible, terrible DEATH.

I should have gotten a picture of the giant flaming steel wheel running over my corpse earlier. Â

Edit:

Show Content

SpoilerNot a picture of flaming wheels, BUT! >.>

:O Looks awesome! I quit WoW when Deathwing was released.. O_< Didn't like the game after that

Myxie Tryxle · **09-12-2013, 05:55 AM**

(09-11-2013, 11:19 PM)Lost River Wrote: Because I could want to, and I know playing DPS will have a longer queue. But when that queue goes past the norm as to what a DPS is (as I posted originally) I decided to say something about it. I don't mind waiting 15 - 35 minutes for DPS, but when that nearly stretches into a two hour mark, something isn't right.

Part of the problem with the primal fights for story progression is that there's little to no reward to going back and running it again. The only reward a repeat player gets from Ifrit mechanics wise is 2000 experience and 200 gil, and those only if there's a person who hasn't done the fight before and needs it for story progression. This means that only folks who are leveling tank or conjurer (not even scholar in the case of Ifrit) as their primary story class will appear in the DF queue and probably just the one time they need it in order to progress their story, versus the overwhelming majority of folks leveling DD through the story.

That said, whenever I see someone looking for help with Ifrit in Intermission or one of my other linkshells, I offer my healing services if I'm not RPing or already in a dungeon, and many others do as well. Two hour queues for a necessary story instance that takes five minutes is totally ridiculous. The quality of the gameplay experience is generally higher as well if you go with people you're likely to see often in game, because folks listen and are open to direction.

I'd suggest joining Balmung's Finest and/or Intermission as a resource for finding groups as well as making friends and finding roleplay in game. That's how I ended up in a few of Nel's Dungeon Raid tutorial videos, and it's been a lot of fun.

Rahal · **09-12-2013, 11:09 AM**

(09-11-2013, 11:09 PM)Aleister Wrote: I agree with her on this...

Also.. Not trying to sound mean or anything but why is there a thread for this? :l Dps queues have always been like this in any mmo with a 'duty finder'. Just gotta befriend a tank or healer and ask them/join them when they do stuff.. Saves the hassle with dealing with annoying derpy randoms.

Edit: Also I'm a Warrior tank and if you need a queue for any dungeon 1-50 (Except AK.. I tend only to do that annoying place with people I know a bit, sorry.) Hit me up and if I'm not busy or anything I most likely will not decline your request for help. I <3 the Titan fight btw.. Just saiyan.

Hey you still need to help me through AK you know! :p

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