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Lament · **10-07-2013, 09:13 PM**

I'm looking for some advice/input!

I have a character who is blind and has been long enough that she would be used to it.

For background reasons, she also has the Echo.

Her blindness is not due to brain damage, so I think she would be able to see properly during visions - since they would be in your mind, rather than your eyes. She hasn't always been blind, so this wouldn't be completely foreign to her, but it would probably make her visions more confusing/less clear in the visual aspect than those of someone who can see.

Also, since the aether is a concept in FFXIV that isn't in the real world, do you think it could be reasonably incorporated into how a blind person can get around? She is skilled with magic and as such it makes sense she would be sensitive to aether. Could sensing changes in the aether affect how she would find her way around?

I'm thinking that in places like cities, with a lot of people, things get too hazy/confusing for this aether sensing to be any help, in which case she would get around the real life way - with a cane. But if traveling alone in the field, where there aren't so many things bunched up so close together, she would be able to orient herself and mostly keep out of danger by sensing aether on top of things like sounds and smells. Also, if she is especially sensitive to aether, I think it's sensible for her to be mildly disoriented in crowds.

In Ul'dah she usually hangs around Pearl Lane, so she doesn't keep her cane on her - anything that could be stolen probably would be stolen from a blind girl around there, after all. She just uses time/distance (on top of sounds etc) as a way of estimating where she is and hugs walls to avoid running into things. I'm thinking in other cities, and new places especially, she would also stick close to walls, but would have her cane on her.

Lastly, she's a conjurer/healer, and needs to touch the target to be able to "aim" the spell properly.

Does this seem reasonable?

I know that IRL, some people use sounds like clicking as a sort of "sonar" mode, but it's not an instinctive skill and she wouldn't know about/use it. Also, I am working off the premise that the aether sensing hinders more than helps in places where there's too much of it and it overwhelms her other senses. And since she became blind later in life (in her teenage years or so, although she claims otherwise), she isn't as good at getting around as people who are born blind or become blind early in life. She was also greatly sheltered until five years ago, so exploring on her own is still fairly new to her.

Thanks in advance for any advice/input! I don't want her to be any clumsier than what would be normal due to a lack of eyesight, but I also don't want her to have super sensing powers that make her better at evasion than people who can actually see.

Nimarhie · **10-07-2013, 09:18 PM**

If youre just wanting it to be a part of her character and not have it be an actual disability, you could give her aura-sight, or some sort of blind-sense that she derives either from her magic studies, or somehow granted from the aether.

Sin · **10-07-2013, 09:27 PM**

Seems reasonable enough to me as long as you can roleplay it effectively.

In my opinion, it's difficult to pull the concept off.

LandStander · **10-07-2013, 09:57 PM**

I think you could do it. If I am relating this right, aether is kind of like the life force of everything; people, plants, animals, the planet. She could probably "see" the aether of the things around her, kind of creating a fuzzy outline of things, but as you said, in cities full of people and places like a dense forest, she might have trouble getting around as everything starts to blend together into one big blur.Â

I think this is an interesting concept and I hope you find a way to pull it off ^^.

Lament · **10-07-2013, 10:03 PM**

To clarify: she is a remake of an older character who's been through a few incarnations, and was blind in all of them. She is also a psychic in all of them, so for this version I figured the Echo would be a nice substitute for psychic powers.

@Nimahrie: If she has the Echo, maybe that contributes to spidey aether sensing? I do picture it as similar to "aura sight" - in that she can pinpoint the source of aether and use that to orient herself. Lore says it exists in all things, so it makes sense to use that. I figure magic studies and Echo could be enough to excuse it. But I do want it to be a disability, so I wanted busy places to be disorienting since the aether would be all over the place.

@Sinmal: I think the hardest part for me to play as an able-bodied person is figuring out how she would go about things without eyesight. I suppose having aether sensing work like an "aura sight" type thing like Nimahrie suggested would make it at least a bit easier for me to understand how she interacts with the world.

aa new post

@LandStander: That is what I was thinking! Except summarized much more neatly.

Thanks for the comments, guys! This aether "vision" sounds like a good way to pull it off without making the blindness totally pointless.

Nimarhie · **10-07-2013, 10:48 PM**

Landstander was pretty much what I was thinking of for "aether-sight". So I would suggest go with that. Smile

Sil'tel Ferima · **10-08-2013, 01:35 AM**

Interesting thoughts in this thread. While I don't have an answer for any of your questions, it raises some issues I should be looking into. My character is blind from a retinal detachment in her right eye, but has perfect vision in the left, so aside from less-than-stellar binocular acuity she doesn't suffer badly, and she's been that way since childhood.

I don't believe a system of sonar to be feasible within the realm of battle, since movements are often too quick to rely on an intermittent sound to determine location, let alone being able to hear a sound return through the intense noise of battle. However, I am in your school of logic that in the Aether, you should be able to have visions. Even the life-long blind have been known to describe colours, patterns and visions in their minds.

Do recall that the human body (and by loose association, the races of Hydaelyn) has more than 5 major senses. All in all, it's been agreed that there are at least 25+ measurable and reliable senses, geomagnetism, thermal sensing, nervous proximity location, etc. And taking a page from The Last Airbender, even completely kinetic and tangible senses such as vibration in the ground and changes in air pressure are feasible, too.

Using Aether to "see" is feasible as far as I'm aware. With my limited knowledge of how aether works I could imagine such a system providing a reliable "sight". After all, Thancred and the other Scions have masks to see Aetherial flow, and aether exists in all things, correct? I say go for it, unless someone can put a hard counter to that argument.

Lament · **10-08-2013, 01:52 PM**

(10-08-2013, 01:35 AM)Sil Wrote:

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SpoilerInteresting thoughts in this thread. While I don't have an answer for any of your questions, it raises some issues I should be looking into. My character is blind from a retinal detachment in her right eye, but has perfect vision in the left, so aside from less-than-stellar binocular acuity she doesn't suffer badly, and she's been that way since childhood.

I don't believe a system of sonar to be feasible within the realm of battle, since movements are often too quick to rely on an intermittent sound to determine location, let alone being able to hear a sound return through the intense noise of battle. However, I am in your school of logic that in the Aether, you should be able to have visions. Even the life-long blind have been known to describe colours, patterns and visions in their minds.

Do recall that the human body (and by loose association, the races of Hydaelyn) has more than 5 major senses. All in all, it's been agreed that there are at least 25+ measurable and reliable senses, geomagnetism, thermal sensing, nervous proximity location, etc. And taking a page from The Last Airbender, even completely kinetic and tangible senses such as vibration in the ground and changes in air pressure are feasible, too.

Using Aether to "see" is feasible as far as I'm aware. With my limited knowledge of how aether works I could imagine such a system providing a reliable "sight". After all, Thancred and the other Scions have masks to see Aetherial flow, and aether exists in all things, correct? I say go for it, unless someone can put a hard counter to that argument.

I agree that relying on sound during battle (especially convoluted battle) doesn't seem feasible. My girl doesn't really have combat experience, so she'd probably get skewered very fast.

Thanks for the input!

Naunet · **10-09-2013, 03:39 PM**

(10-08-2013, 01:35 AM)Sil Wrote: I don't believe a system of sonar to be feasible within the realm of battle, since movements are often too quick to rely on an intermittent sound to determine location, let alone being able to hear a sound return through the intense noise of battle.

I just wanna say that sonar and sound are not quite the same thing. The sensory input a dolphin or a bat receives from echolocation is amazingly detailed and precise.

Shae'ra · **10-09-2013, 03:52 PM**

The very first character I played in an MMO (RP wise) was a blind one. It can be quite fun but can also be challenging at points, which I enjoyed. I have quite the funny stories behind him as well. That said: I learned quite a bit from it.

I think the aether aspects would work fine to aid her in getting around.

As for :

Quote:I know that IRL, some people use sounds like clicking as a sort of "sonar" mode, but it's not an instinctive skill and she wouldn't know about/use it.

It could develop naturally. As a blind person walks around and listens: you would develop more sensitive hearing thus allowing you to hear the bounce back of sounds off objects near you. If you listen to your own foot falls (with sensitive/developed hearing due to being blind for a while) you'd be able to hear when you're approaching a wall versus walking in the open. However, this, much like the aether thing, also would be rather difficult in busy locations since you are getting sounds from all around you and it would be much harder to focus on a specific one.

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Lament · **10-09-2013, 03:58 PM**

Technically, what some blind humans do is also considered echolocation, but more than likely nowhere near as precise as that of bats and dolphins, not unlike how our sense of smell isn't anywhere near as precise as that of dogs, and our hearing can't compare to other animals, either.

@Shae'ra: It could develop naturally, yes! But she doesn't really have the skill - or rather, she doesn't have it developed. She would rely more on the Aether - like we tend to rely more on vision - and focus less on sounds. And she's Hyur, so I suppose that would make extra sense. :o

Thanks for the comment! c:

Naunet · **10-09-2013, 04:13 PM**

(10-09-2013, 03:52 PM)Shae Wrote:

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Also: If you are Elezen or Miqo'te
They both have inclined hearing. The wiki states that an Elezen can hear a mouse from a malm (or mile) away. Then in XI it was said that the Mithra (Miqo'te) have better hearing than the Elvaan (Elezen) Granted, this is information from XI, however, would make logical sense to be able to apply the same information to XIV as the shape of the ear and type allows for it to remain true.

It was stated in one of those Q&A things (I think that's where it was) that miqo'te actually have a very strong sense of smell, not hearing. The ears prize goes to Elezen in Eorzea!

Myxie Tryxle · **10-09-2013, 04:59 PM**

Another way you could consider this is instead of 'seeing' auras she could 'feel' them in a tactile sense. For example, if she were talking to a single person alone in a room, their aura might feel like a small draft in the room or a hand held fan blowing onto her skin. If that person starts channeling magic, it could escalate to the intensity of a room fan washing over her. Surround her by enough people or enough aether flow, and it would be impossible to distinguish one flow from another as they all buffeted her skin. This would also allow her to use her more tactile sensitive body parts, namely the hands and face, to explore the aether flows around her.

Lament · **10-09-2013, 05:12 PM**

I call it "seeing" but I'm not sure exactly what it would be - although the conjurer quests imply that conjurers do feel (in the tactile sense) nature a bit more strongly than other people. I tend to picture this aether "vision" as something that's separate from the senses we're used to - so like, the masks Thancred &c use to see it are just converting aether to visual feedback, like a heat sensor would.

I like to think that when there's too much of it, instead of a visual blur, she gets overwhelmed in a... mental sense, disoriented, unable to focus. A bit like what we'd feel if the room started spinning, or we started hearing a bunch of incomprehensible sounds - you try to make sense of your surroundings, but can't.

It's just easier for me, personally, to picture it as 'seeing' the Aether - but it wouldn't be seeing it in the literal sense. You just feel it, and you know it's there, like you would if you'd seen, heard, smelled, touched, tasted it.

Mewnie · **10-09-2013, 06:36 PM**

I think the question that hasn't been asked is: if your characters is blind, but can still see and function as well as a sighted person, are they truly blind?

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