RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes

Freemoon · **11-01-2013, 04:16 PM**

(11-01-2013, 03:50 PM)K'dath Wrote: So I do apologize if I seem overly hostile on the matter. I don't mean to discourage or berate people that do aspire to such levels of competency as you described. It sounds absolutely lovely and I'd adore to see nobility being treated like, you know, goddamn nobility instead of conductors of orgies. I paint a grim picture because it's all I know, it's all I've seen, and I point to it and go 'Don't do that' out of love and a desire NOT to see the community go the way of Moon Guard, rather than to upset anyone who has well intentioned aspirations.

Don't feel too badly. Â A lot of us that have been in similar situations have equally strong feelings against certain types, and even quality RP of those types can still not be enough to wash away the feelings formed by bad examples.

When I joined Star Wars Galaxies (within the first 6 months after launch), I would instantly flinch at the mention of slavery because in my experience up until that point, slavery RP was most often equal to something akin to bad romance novels or Moon Guard tavern orgies. Â Nevermind the fact I knew there was slavery within the Star Wars lore, nevermind that a majority of these people were not playing the kind or RP that I had seen so heavily before. Â

Even after getting involved in some very engaging RP with these people (both slaves and owners alike), I still to this day have to stop myself from twitching at the mention of slavery RP because what I saw before is so burned into my memory.

K'dath · **11-01-2013, 04:46 PM**

(11-01-2013, 04:16 PM)Freemoon Wrote: Don't feel too badly. Â A lot of us that have been in similar situations have equally strong feelings against certain types, and even quality RP of those types can still not be enough to wash away the feelings formed by bad examples.

When I joined Star Wars Galaxies (within the first 6 months after launch), I would instantly flinch at the mention of slavery because in my experience up until that point, slavery RP was most often equal to something akin to bad romance novels or Moon Guard tavern orgies. Â Nevermind the fact I knew there was slavery within the Star Wars lore, nevermind that a majority of these people were not playing the kind or RP that I had seen so heavily before. Â

Even after getting involved in some very engaging RP with these people (both slaves and owners alike), I still to this day have to stop myself from twitching at the mention of slavery RP because what I saw before is so burned into my memory.

(11-01-2013, 04:16 PM)Freemoon Wrote: slavery RP was most often equal to something akin to bad romance novels or Moon Guard tavern orgies.

(11-01-2013, 04:16 PM)Freemoon Wrote: Slave RP ... Moon Guard Tavern Orgies

Oh god. Don't take me back to that place man. I've seen some things in my time.

Val · **11-01-2013, 06:23 PM**

I saw some pretty horrid things on Moon Guard, myself. It was... well. It was something, and that's about all I'm going to say about it.

I was on there for a long time =(

LiadansWhisper · **11-01-2013, 06:59 PM**

I somehow managed to play two years on moon guard and never see this shit. Â Bouncy

Sigyn Shieldbreaker · **11-01-2013, 07:03 PM**

(11-01-2013, 03:50 PM)K Wrote:
(10-12-2013, 09:30 PM)K Wrote: I'd encourage you to do what you want, but temper it with logic and a little bit of research before you put yourself in a situation where you'll be making objective proclamations.

Truth be told, the one thing that irked me more than anything was the games of 'noble swap' they various house guilds played. Like they were noble houses who... collected other nobles. Not retainers, not servants... not anything that would make sense. And they didn't marry them off or make political alliances. Nope, noooo. Way too much effort. They just hoarded them. Plucked them off the street and said "Hey, you wanna join my house, you stallion?" ...and then, you know, they'd meander off to screw.

Just tons and tons of unassociated, unconnected noble families but they are all under one 'house'. Which prompts my 'Do you even know what nobility ARE?' point of contention any time I see someone bring it up. Even worse was the ratio of retainers to nobility was abysmal. In fact, there were several hundred players in some of the larger guilds... and I knew... 3 people in one that were not in and of themselves nobility. Three. One, two, three. Out of around two-hundred...

Nothing about either of those things is good. It's just blatantly pontificating your own character and their importance. I'm not saying all nobility are this way, I'm not saying the concept is inherently this way, but if it's not handled with a bit of common sense it's much easier to overblow it into all out 'mary-sue' territory than, say, your garden variety warrior. Nobility aren't the only ones to suffer from their either. Warlocks are the other major culprit of 'Mary Sue by Design'. Everything in lore denies that they should be allowed to exist alongside the rest of society, but, you know mechanics get in the way of that...

Anything can be a bad character, a bad design, or a bad concept. It's execution that's going to determine whether it is or not. But some require a bit more forethought to conduct in a meaningful way. That's my point more than 'You shouldn't do it ever because it is bad and you're bad if you do it'. No, it's not. But you should think about it, contextualize it, justify it, and bring it into alignment with the lore, the world, and most importantly the player base. Doing things just because you can IS bad design.

So I do apologize if I seem overly hostile on the matter. I don't mean to discourage or berate people that do aspire to such levels of competency as you described. It sounds absolutely lovely and I'd adore to see nobility being treated like, you know, goddamn nobility instead of conductors of orgies. I paint a grim picture because it's all I know, it's all I've seen, and I point to it and go 'Don't do that' out of love and a desire NOT to see the community go the way of Moon Guard, rather than to upset anyone who has well intentioned aspirations.

I feel like I gave you the impression with the tale end of my rant that I was directing something at you. I wasn't. I was pretty sure you and I were on agreement for all the points that mattered. I totally feel you, and I'm glad it seems we -do- agree on most everything thus far. I mean, honestly, with nobles it's hard. If they don't have enough support there's just not a lot more of them to do than be noble-errants, wandering around... telling people they're nobles... that's about it. But with all the bad experiences and sometimes the bag stigma that goes hand in hand with RPing a noble, how else can you get started? Not all of us have the beginnings and willingness to work that the people in Ravenholdt did-- and even those blew over eventually.

I dunno. It's a catch twenty-two to me.

Val · **11-01-2013, 07:05 PM**

(11-01-2013, 06:59 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: I somehow managed to play two years on moon guard and never see this shit. Â

I think it tends to depend on what side you were playing on and where you frequented, along with what circles you went to.

Honestly, I had a TON of friends that I played with and, quite honestly, thoroughly miss from Moon Guard. I'd give anything to find them again ;-;

Freemoon · **11-01-2013, 08:48 PM**

(11-01-2013, 04:46 PM)K Wrote:
(11-01-2013, 04:16 PM)Freemoon Wrote: Slave RP ... Moon Guard Tavern Orgies
Oh god. Don't take me back to that place man. I've seen some things in my time.

Sorry! Â

I had several different metaphors in mind, but that just seemed the most apt.

I apologize for any traumatic experiences I may have unintentionally caused you to remember. Â If it helps, watch thisÂ and let the randomness make you laugh until you forget about it. Â
[youtube]aZBsPSiS__U[/youtube]

(11-01-2013, 06:23 PM)Val Wrote: I saw some pretty horrid things on Moon Guard, myself. It was... well. It was something, and that's about all I'm going to say about it.

I was on there for a long time =(

(11-01-2013, 07:05 PM)Val Wrote:
(11-01-2013, 06:59 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: I somehow managed to play two years on moon guard and never see this shit. Â

I think it tends to depend on what side you were playing on and where you frequented, along with what circles you went to.

Honestly, I had a TON of friends that I played with and, quite honestly, thoroughly miss from Moon Guard. I'd give anything to find them again ;-;

I rather miss many friends I had there as well, players from both sides that were not only fun to RP with, but just plain great friends to have known. Â I've kept in contact with a couple, but the others pretty much disappeared for one reason or another (ranging from intending to take a break for a month and never coming back to some just suddenly never coming back, while others disappeared online entirely and their IM and email accounts sit untouched or expired).

We tried our best to avoid "that stuff", but it really was hard to miss in certain areas and at certain times. Â My BE Hunter practically avoided the BE area except to tame a certain pet (and snag the non-combat pets back in the days before the combat pet system made owning more than one per account pretty pointless) and to do a few quests.

Val · **11-01-2013, 08:53 PM**

(11-01-2013, 08:48 PM)Freemoon Wrote: I rather miss many friends I had there as well, players from both sides that were not only fun to RP with, but just plain great friends to have known. Â I've kept in contact with a couple, but the others pretty much disappeared for one reason or another (ranging from intending to take a break for a month and never coming back to some just suddenly never coming back, while others disappeared online entirely and their IM and email accounts sit untouched or expired).

We tried our best to avoid "that stuff", but it really was hard to miss in certain areas and at certain times. Â My BE Hunter practically avoided the BE area except to tame a certain pet (and snag the non-combat pets back in the days before the combat pet system made owning more than one per account pretty pointless) and to do a few quests.

I was Alliance for the most part and rarely ever went Horde. I can't really say why, to be honest. It just never clicked with me. I have heard many great and wonderful tales about Hordeside RP, though!

I have fond memories and even greater screenshots of my Nelf pre-Moon Guard back when I played on Silver Hand during Vanilla and BC.

K'dath · **11-01-2013, 09:22 PM**

(11-01-2013, 08:53 PM)Val Wrote:
(11-01-2013, 08:48 PM)Freemoon Wrote: I rather miss many friends I had there as well, players from both sides that were not only fun to RP with, but just plain great friends to have known. Â I've kept in contact with a couple, but the others pretty much disappeared for one reason or another (ranging from intending to take a break for a month and never coming back to some just suddenly never coming back, while others disappeared online entirely and their IM and email accounts sit untouched or expired).

We tried our best to avoid "that stuff", but it really was hard to miss in certain areas and at certain times. Â My BE Hunter practically avoided the BE area except to tame a certain pet (and snag the non-combat pets back in the days before the combat pet system made owning more than one per account pretty pointless) and to do a few quests.

I was Alliance for the most part and rarely ever went Horde. I can't really say why, to be honest. It just never clicked with me. I have heard many great and wonderful tales about Hordeside RP, though!

I have fond memories and even greater screenshots of my Nelf pre-Moon Guard back when I played on Silver Hand during Vanilla and BC.

Horde RP was pretty starkly divided into:
Blood Elf RP and No Blood Elves Allowed RP. One was vastly better than the other, but included about, oh, 10% of the server. It was why I spent most of my closing days on my Druid rather than any of my geared/raid toons.

Sweeping generalizations and sarcasm aside, Horde RP was alright. It had some really, REALLY good, inspired guilds that did some really cool things... And then there was the very prolific 'sex slave brothel' guild. /PTSD

Val · **11-01-2013, 09:29 PM**

(11-01-2013, 09:22 PM)K Wrote:
(11-01-2013, 08:53 PM)Val Wrote:
(11-01-2013, 08:48 PM)Freemoon Wrote: I rather miss many friends I had there as well, players from both sides that were not only fun to RP with, but just plain great friends to have known. Â I've kept in contact with a couple, but the others pretty much disappeared for one reason or another (ranging from intending to take a break for a month and never coming back to some just suddenly never coming back, while others disappeared online entirely and their IM and email accounts sit untouched or expired).

We tried our best to avoid "that stuff", but it really was hard to miss in certain areas and at certain times. Â My BE Hunter practically avoided the BE area except to tame a certain pet (and snag the non-combat pets back in the days before the combat pet system made owning more than one per account pretty pointless) and to do a few quests.

I was Alliance for the most part and rarely ever went Horde. I can't really say why, to be honest. It just never clicked with me. I have heard many great and wonderful tales about Hordeside RP, though!

I have fond memories and even greater screenshots of my Nelf pre-Moon Guard back when I played on Silver Hand during Vanilla and BC.
Horde RP was pretty starkly divided into:
Blood Elf RP and No Blood Elves Allowed RP. One was vastly better than the other, but included about, oh, 10% of the server. It was why I spent most of my closing days on my Druid rather than any of my geared/raid toons.

Sweeping generalizations and sarcasm aside, Horde RP was alright. It had some really, REALLY good, inspired guilds that did some really cool things... And then there was the very prolific 'sex slave brothel' guild. /PTSD

I can certainly assure you that it went both ways. The Alliance side wasn't very different at all. You had your blatant ERP guilds and.. lol. There was that one lady that had pictures of herself and her dog. NSFW pictures.

TheLastCandle · **11-01-2013, 09:44 PM**

I don't even want to think about Moon Guard RP right now. Heh. Suffice to say, I took part (hell, you could search battle.net right now and find at least one of my characters with little effort) and I've seen some shit.Â

That aside, I want to just say that I love it when people display "nobility" by their behaviors in such a way that makes you think, "That's one classy lady/gentleman," rather than shouting from the rooftops their highborn upbringing whilst expressing disdain towards any and all "common" folk who might be present at the time. (Not that this isn't also a perfectly valid character archetype!)

Caelia · **11-02-2013, 01:53 PM**

So, to take this thread really far back (several pages ago, in a galaxy far, far away):

Quote:We do not know Ul'dah has nobility. There is a royal family and there is the Syndicate, the latter of which is not hereditary but rather bought into with gil.

I think it could be said that the Syndicate COULD be hereditary and there is a historical basis for this on Earth. Â In the 1300's the Medicis rose to power in Florence (Italy) based solely on their capacity as bankers and the vast amounts of wealth they had. Â Since Florence was a Republic City State (although this would fluctuate wildly during the Renaissance, arguably because of this one family's power and influence), this family rose to join the ranks of other very prominent, wealthy families and essentially came to control the city while keeping it under the guise of a Republic. Â

One would argue that they were not nobility since they were bankers and descended from peasants. Â Likewise, you could say that they weren't nobility because Florence was not a kingdom or run by a ruler, per se. Â However, the fact stands that they were considered nobility and allowed to marry into foreign royal houses (they provided France with two queens, both of which made a profound impact of the country itself) and even managed to get some of their relatives into the Papal seat. Â Eventually, they were given Florence as a dukedom. Â

They managed this through patronizing various artists (propaganda), bribery, putting family members in prime positions politically, and ruthlessly eliminating the competition (Pazzi Conspiracy.) Â Their greatest leader was arguably Lorenzo "il Magnifico" de Medici who was the patron of Michelangelo, Leonardo di Vinci, Botticelli, etc. Â Despite having been out of power for centuries, the Medici stamp can still be seen all over Florence in terms of their coat of arms marking buildings they built or owned.

So, how this affects Ul'dah:Â Because wealth is inherited (we assume since I don't think there's a thing talking about inheritance laws in Ul'dah) and it's wealth that allows someone to buy into the Syndicate, it's possible that a Syndicate position could be hereditary on the inside while outwardly presenting a facade of "if you had enough wealth/power/prestige, you could be here too." Â If a man owns a business that has made him a ton of wealth, is he going to just let his employee take over it? Â Or will he let his son/daughter? Â At the end of the day, his employee could destroy everything he worked towards as well as harm his family by forcing them out of benefits associated with the business. Â However, his son/daughter can't hurt his/her family without hurting themselves. Â It's a safer bet to keep wealth in the family than giving the source of your wealth and power to a treasured employee.

TL;DR: Â Ul'dah is a lot like Florence in terms of a city state. Â If there is no nobility, the Syndicate is like nobillity. Â Look up Medici family in Florence and see the similarities between Florence's Republic and Ul'dah's Syndicate.

LiadansWhisper · **11-02-2013, 04:19 PM**

(11-02-2013, 01:53 PM)Caelia Wrote: TL;DR: Â Ul'dah is a lot like Florence in terms of a city state. Â If there is no nobility, the Syndicate is like nobillity. Â Look up Medici family in Florence and see the similarities between Florence's Republic and Ul'dah's Syndicate.

Which opens up so very many possibilities! Â Big Grin

synaesthetic · **11-02-2013, 04:44 PM**

I always got the Mafia vibe from Ul'dah's "nobility."

Wonloong · **11-06-2013, 09:52 PM**

Hey, you guys like to RP as nobility, right? I've got a game JUST for you! It's: theÂ
Jane Austen MMO we've all been waiting for! It's true!

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Nobility in RP

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes