RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes

Saefinn · **06-12-2014, 08:58 AM**

I would say for villains, of course first seek the permission of other players when it comes to some of your general jackassery.

But I have found subtlety to be my best tool on my villain characters. I have 2, Oskar and Lenu, Oskar is your honest-Iago and Lenu, I don't even know if she's a villain yet.

For a bit of backstory with Oskar. My characters Steinn and X'hayu are defectors from the Garlean Empire, Steinn who's now an entrepreneur responsible for a larger number of Ala Mhigan refugees and X'hayu who, after the guilt of her crimes has sought a selfless goal of essentially helping those in need. It has earned her a place among the Sultansworn. The two essentially have knocked their head together to leak Garlean military tactics and are backing the Ala Mhigan resistance.

However, in their Garlean days, Steinn and X'hayu were responsible for dealing with Ala Mhigan insurgents and it wasn't pretty. They murdered Oskar's family in cold blood. So he's blinded by hate and only wants revenge. Steinn and X'hayu's secrets were protected by our pirate crew and we work closely with them and they're essentially under our protection. Oskar basically allowed himself become a part of the furniture as an Ala Mhigan employee. This meant he had one valuable asset. Information.

So with that backstory, I had a motive and a means of him manipulating things to his favour. So I had to work him into one of our FC's arcs. It took a while for Oskar to actually have a presence. Instead of, "hey, here's a villain", I took things in stages. The first stage was: have Garleans discover X'hayu. So she was hidden by our crew. We managed to kill off the trail of breadcrumbs leading to X'hayu so she could walk free.

The second stage was to have Steinn blackmailed into turning himself over to the Garlean Empire. No names were mentioned, just an Ala Mhigan hinted. By this point Oskar had shown his face to the crew, but his true nature was unknown. We as a crew investigated what blackmail they had over Steinn. The Garlean Empire was in possession of a list with all the names of locations of everybody involved with our crew's operations. This meant we had to find a means of retrieving that list. Once recovered, the contents of the list was enough to shake people up. But one location was circled - where the Captain's family lived. They were assassinated. Once people knew it was this guy Oskar, he was instantly hated.

After Saefinn captured him and after what a crew mate did to him, Oskar has been in hiding, his face resurfacing once in a while to crew unease. But his RP essentially worked because I've managed to work his motive into why he would target people in our group and rather than being overly obvious or to be an over-the-top Disney like villain, his actions and manipulation speak more and I don't have to have long periods of playing on him.

Which leads me onto Lenu. I barely roleplay her, when I do roleplay her, it's for short periods of time. My approach to her is "less is more", she saved Saefinn's life, she seems to appear at certain points in different arcs and seems like quite a reasonable character with selfless aims. But she has left random and vague notes, like "you debt must be settled, life for a life" and she turns up at points unannounced. With a more recent issue, we've had somebody kidnapped, and after a moment of almost screwing things up. She just walked into our house and saw 2 members of the FC and said "tell your Captain, his debt has been paid, life for a life." Each time she appears, things are very ambiguous and to add, I've made her a White Mage, which in itself is one hell of a taboo unless you're a Padjal. Everything about her is merely implied and ambiguous, I'm letting people fill in the gaps. When I'm ready, I will reveal her true nature, but I'd rather just keep placing seeds into people's heads when she is about in hope that she unnerves people.

I find with my villains they need to seemingly have a big impact, but not be too obvious and announce themselves. To use a bit of subtlety and manipulation. I like Iago as a villain, though Othello bored me as a whole, but it worked well.

Melodia · **06-12-2014, 09:07 AM**

So many good responses and ideas here. Thank you all! Smile

Â Based on the replies, I have a way to use my alt Krell and have reached out to the folks who would potentially be involved in my actively bringing him into the game world. For him a person grudge against my main is a good driver and the fact that Ruru has interacted with others makes them good targets...er...I mean contacts for Krell. Wink

Â

And for C'Kayah's point about losing? I actually look forward to the little knucklehead losing. Big Grin

Â Hehe!

It'll be good fun nevertheless. Thank you all again! Awesome awesome community!

Zaiaku · **06-12-2014, 11:11 AM**

(06-11-2014, 05:27 PM)Leomoon Wrote: Be more like a Anit-hero or self indulgent. To be a good villain you don't think "I will do evil!" you have to have reasons an motivation for doing the action you will take. One good way is to take a regular hero like losing a village or a loved one to some bad dudes and then instead of making them do good you make them out right kill people.

One way is to have him round up some bandits and pretty much slaughter them in RP it is a little harder because we can't round up NPC's but you can have a story of it or have your character be stealing money or strong arming people for information.

My character thinks this way he follows his own ideals and he is very self indulgent. He manipulates people and use them for his own personal gain.

Zhavi · **06-12-2014, 11:20 AM**

Waiiiit I have two cents toooooo!

In my mind, Zhi is a villain, if we're defining villains in rp as people who are willing to do anything to get what they want. The idea here being that "villain" itself implies something others would consider morally reprehensible, as opposed to antagonists whose goals are simply different or opposite to any other character. That's how I reckon it. Zhi works as both, and indeed, has -- she tried to find someone to kill Osric, ffs. The only thing that stopped her was her lack of money. She killed someone that a normal person would have considered a friend for the sake of a job. She has no problem fooling Lolotaru into thinking she's a wide-eyed student who looks up to him as a teacher in order to steal his most precious possession. Her only qualms about that job is the niggling sense that the only reason she was hired is because she's expendable (ie, killable once it's done). She is not a nice person. She is not, by any means, a good person.

But she thinks she's justified, and she thinks her way is the only viable, practical way. She doesn't think she's good, but she thinks she's right.

So, to me, getting her involved was a matter of creating a space within the game world where she could thrive, and then giving her something to do. OOC communication is a must there.

I don't think she has to lose. Ever. I don't think it has to be assumed that any villain does -- unless you're talking about something game-affecting, but that goes for "good" guys too (things like fixing Ul'dah and scouring it of all its corruption or annihilating most of the problems affecting npc refugees or knocking out game-established npc hot-shots who do bad things, getting rid of pirate crews in Limsa who have been noted as being bad, etc), so imo that's not really something worthy of note. Tailor your villain to the setting, aim for goals that you can realistically implement on the off chance that your character succeeds, and go wild.

Zhi isn't high up on the ladder, but given the social and economic ideas we've implemented into our rp, someone who did play, say, a baron or gang leader could feasibly "win" in a rp arc, because all we'd be affecting is the status-quo in the underbelly; we wouldn't need to change Limsa's infrastructure or anything that is set up in game. That makes it more fun for me (though, of course, there are innumerable ways to rp and no one way is the right way), not knowing where my character will end up, not knowing what will happen.

And, of course, if you want to set up some "villain" types in Limsa, hit me up. Big Grin

I created Zhi with the idea that she could be hired as an underling (without realizing that Limsa has a bit of a surfeit of mastermind types, at least that I've run across) so that I could help foster that sort of rp.

MrPoopyButtHole · **06-12-2014, 11:27 AM**

Pyralis is totally a baddie, I swear.

Melodia · **06-12-2014, 11:39 AM**

(06-12-2014, 11:20 AM)Zhavi Wrote: "Words and info."

And, of course, if you want to set up some "villain" types in Limsa, hit me up. Â Â I created Zhi with the idea that she could be hired as an underling (without realizing that Limsa has a bit of a surfeit of mastermind types, at least that I've run across) so that I could help foster that sort of rp.

YUSSS!! Maybe I can ret-con Melodia a bit and use her there. We need more people in Limsa! Big Grin

Eva · **06-12-2014, 12:11 PM**

I think there's a lot of good points here and I'm planning on adding this thread to a list of others I'll be linking from the RP Handbook in an upcoming edit (hopefully soon).

I think the single most important element for a 'villain' type character to be realistic and substantial in the MMO RP setting is something that a couple others touched upon in earlier posts. There really does need to be a /reason/ for the character's behavior. Some of the most compelling villains to me in past RP are those that can be identified with - at least on some level.

As with all RPed characters, I place a lot of personal emphasis on the underlying motivations that set that character into motion. I find myself constantly asking why a particular character might behave a particular way. This has transitioned into IC moreso lately with Eva, because she is sort of analytical of others' behaviors and the psychology behind them. But from a purely OOC perspective, I don't think there is anything more frustrating than a character that is bad-tempered or "evil" without some concrete reason for such.

Now don't get me wrong! This doesn't mean that said character needs to express lamentations about how his family was slain by coeurls before he goes on a mass-kitten killing spree. It simply means that the actions should have underlying reasons, rather than just "evil for the sake of being evil." Garlean types have a good reason. Anyone who lost a loved one might become consumed by revenge. But I do think that it's important - even for the throw-away villain alts - to not lack that bit of substance that essentially makes them who they are.

Our other character Ben (not an alt, as there are two of us players who share these two characters, though admittedly Ben doesn't get as much play time) may be perceived as a villain. And others might see him as a hero, depending on perspective of course. There are very specific reasons for the things that he does, and while he would surely regard himself as righteous and pious, some of the deeds are downright despicable. Someone in one of the earlier posts mentioned that a villain seldom ever views himself as such - and I think that's probably the best point to reinforce here with this example.

I'll end this with a rather appropriate character quote that sums my feelings up pretty succinctly: "There is no good and there is no evil. There is only truth and perspective."

Roen · **06-12-2014, 12:28 PM**

(06-12-2014, 11:20 AM)Zhavi Wrote: I don't think she has to lose. Â Ever. Â I don't think it has to be assumed that any villain does -- unless you're talking about something game-affecting, but that goes for "good" guys too (things like fixing Ul'dah and scouring it of all its corruption or annihilating most of the problems affecting npc refugees or knocking out game-established npc hot-shots who do bad things, getting rid of pirate crews in Limsa who have been noted as being bad, etc), so imo that's not really something worthy of note. Â Tailor your villain to the setting, aim for goals that you can realistically implement on the off chance that your character succeeds, and go wild.

This.

Villains do not have to be throw away characters. I think it is a horrible waste for people to think, oh that villain will eventually lose and be killed... throw away!

Not that they will NEVER lose, by the by. That's not interesting either. Any good story has ups and downs, for BOTH good side and bad.Â

We've seen in this thread that there are players whose main IS a villain. Seeing them thrive and grow gives me just as much enjoyment as seeing heroes triumph!

Zhavi · **06-12-2014, 12:51 PM**

(06-12-2014, 12:28 PM)Roen Wrote: Not that they will NEVER lose, by the by. That's not interesting either. Any good story has ups and downs, for BOTH good side and bad.Â

Agreed! For most rps (Askier's first event rp being one of the exceptions -- he knew from the get go that his character could not blow up Ul'dah, and therefore his character needed to lose) I always prefer to think in terms of chance for success. Sometimes it's low, sometimes it's high, sometimes it could go either way.

But almost always, there is a chance -- which gives the rp some leeway for unpredictability. :3

Some of my most fun rps were where I and my rp cohorts were pitting our characters against each other and going all out in our efforts to make our individual characters come out on top. My favorite one ended very poorly for my character -- but did it ever give her drive and a reason to come back for revenge! My second favorite wound up making my character unplayable -- technically her side "won", but the things that happened along the way wrecked her to the point that she probably would have gone off to die (I had her disappear, that was the sole rp where I just didn't have it in me to rp out exactly what happened to her).

Point being what Roen said. Both are awesome. Both lead to great character development.

Dresden Voltaire · **06-12-2014, 09:55 PM**

I play my own character like a sociopath in a sense. Utterly skewed in morals and willing to kill on command, but also able to put on a friendly facade to keep his true nature under wraps. I based him on high profiled criminals who got away with crimes because they were the least suspected. No one assumes the nice neighbor who pays for Girl Scout cookies can ever be a serial murderer.

This duality makes it easier to playÂ evil, butÂ not alienate him socially. He can still have friends and maybe even get a good rep, but that's because no one is wise to it.

That being said, is there any actual villainous linkshells around that's still active?

LiadansWhisper · **06-13-2014, 12:45 AM**

(06-12-2014, 09:55 PM)Dresden Wrote: I play my own character like a sociopath in a sense. Utterly skewed in morals and willing to kill on command, but also able to put on a friendly facade to keep his true nature under wraps. I based him on high profiled criminals who got away with crimes because they were the least suspected. No one assumes the nice neighbor who pays for Girl Scout cookies can ever be a serial murderer.

This duality makes it easier to playÂ evil, butÂ not alienate him socially. He can still have friends and maybe even get a good rep, but that's because no one is wise to it.

That being said, is there any actual villainous linkshells around that's still active?

I think Grim is the only one I know of.

Faye · **06-13-2014, 01:14 AM**

Hi! I haven't read through all the responses for anything I said yet, so I apologize if I'm being redundant here. Villains are tricky to play for a lot of reasons, so it takes a lot of careful planning, and really a lot of it depends on how understanding and accepting your RP partners are. That being said, I recommend generally playing villains with only people you know well. It's often difficult to play a villainous character as anything but an alt to be the antagonist of a single story arc, but there are ways!

Secretly be a villain! Of course, all secret villains should eventually be found out otherwise all the fun of playing a secret villain is void, but if your character's actions are subtle you can drag out the charade for quite a long time.

Alternatively, you can play a character that is obviously up to no good, yet the "heroes" can't do anything about it. Your character can simply be in a place of superiority over the heroes and have a hostage, or blackmail, or just have more power, be physical, political, social, or otherwise. Also, keep in mind Eorzea has laws and rules--ones that you can skirt along and hide behind! If your character doesn't commit any actual crimes, or if they cannot tie your character to the crimes, even if everyone knows he's up to no good, there's not much the heroes can do about it. Sure, they can take things into their hands and try to capture or kill your character, but logically that would land them in some trouble themselves. Vigilante justice isn't necessarily legal itself!

And if it comes down to the problem of your villain being found out before you're done playing him (which is sadly very likely with the common black and white mentality that "good always prevails over evil," and others won't hesitate to stop your character--even before he's actually done anything nefarious, especially if they have access to meta-knowledge)... remember that, though some consider it a stretch, many many people use Fantasia potions IC. And the game has shown us on a few occasions that you can slap a mask on and look shady as all get out, and no one will question it or demand you remove your mask. Tongue

Â It's apparently quite easy to go into hiding, either permanently or until the storm has passed.

Essentially, though, the most important things are to A) Find level-headed people who don't always have to win, won't metagame, and will take some punches for the sake of letting you RP a villain and B) Don't make a character who is stupidly, blatantly evil if you want him to last long. There's no way anyone could or would let a known mass murderer just run around freely and hang out at the tavern chatting with people, for example.

Roswyn · **06-13-2014, 03:00 AM**

(06-11-2014, 12:10 PM)Rurutani Wrote: So I wonder, other villainy types reading this, how do you rp with your character to make them usable for more than just some epic storyline?

You can play a villainous character and not fall into the automatic dichotomy of "good" vs "evil". Perhaps your character is just morally gray enough to swing far enough to one side but even to them there are things they won't do.

People in real life are never just one swath of light or dark. There are shades of grey everywhere and I think that's important to remember if you're creating a character that will be more morally "grey".

There are very very few individuals out there who would subscribe to your "Chaotic Evil" archetype and a villainous character doesn't necessarily have to fall into that category. Even Neutral Evil villains require a motivation to be swayed to perform acts of violence and they are capable of love and tender relationship with others.

Personally, I enjoy RPing out the human condition. What has happened to your character to begin walking them down this path? Who is around them that is influencing them? Can they change this? Do they WANT to change this? And how do they feel about their actions thus far and how would they feel if it got worse?

These are all questions and aspects that should be asked and considered by you and even your character. You might be surprised at the answers you get back.

It's important to note that a character can start out more on the good side and meet the "wrong" kinds of people and be introduced into situations and they will gradually sink into more villainy unless they make serious efforts to remove themselves from the situation - just like in real life. "Oh, Jimmy got in with a bad crowd.."

At the end of they day, your villain is still a "person" and should be treated and played as such instead of just a plot device if you want a decent character. They will have strengths and weaknesses, loves and desires, successes and failures. They will also have people around them who will experience these highs and lows with them. I think that makes a multi-facated and interesting villain.

Warren Castille · **06-13-2014, 08:10 AM**

Hm. Looking over the responses it seems we've gotten a little far afield from what I think was the original concept. There's a lot of mention of playing morally questionable characters, but I think the idea (and correct me if I'm wrong and asserting things that are untrue) is how to play antagonists as opposed to just "bad guys."

It's possible to play someone with a sociopathic streak, or is willing to kill if they're slighted at all, or someone who decides all crimes are punishable by death regardless of how minor an infraction. That's not the same as playing an outright player-character-opposing antagonist.

Melodia · **06-13-2014, 08:17 AM**

(06-13-2014, 08:10 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: Hm. Looking over the responses it seems we've gotten a little far afield from what I think was the original concept. There's a lot of mention of playing morally questionable characters, but I think the idea (and correct me if I'm wrong and asserting things that are untrue) is how to play antagonists as opposed to just "bad guys."

It's possible to play someone with a sociopathic streak, or is willing to kill if they're slighted at all, or someone who decides all crimes are punishable by death regardless of how minor an infraction. That's not the same as playing an outright player-character-opposing antagonist.

Well, for Krell, he's an antagonist to Ruru. That's pretty much it. His primary goal is getting to Ruru. Makes rp a bit challenging since they are both mine. XDÂ But I can always play out any encounter here with the two on this site. But....nice thing is Krell can always engage with Ruru's contacts and friends, expanding his own circle a bit more, and perhaps in time he will find another character that rubs him the wrong way. Big Grin

Â I think he will be fine, and I can still play him as a straight villain, since he is good at play acting to be civil.

« Next Oldest \| Next Newest »
Pages (4): « Previous 1 2 3 4 Next »

Playing as a Villain

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes