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FreelanceWizard · **07-14-2014, 05:05 PM**

So, I guess I'll poke this thread again. Smile

I think the idea of those who want to play Yellowjackets taking a "Brooklyn 99" or "Police Academy" stance to their RP is good. It has two very positive effects: it gives them a very strong motivation to "prove themselves" by catching real bad guys (i.e., those played by criminal PCs who want antagonists for their stories), and it neutralizes any authority they might try to have over anyone else. It's hard to be the "dirty cop" when all the person you harass has to do is say something to your superior (or to Baderon, or anyone else) to get an angry captain shouting at you from behind a desk and demanding your pistols and your coat. Of course, this may not be the sort of RP that such players want, but it's one of the few good ways I've heard to actually RP LEOs without stomping all over consent.

I'm all in favor of plots that don't mandate participation or split continuity. In Ul'dah right now, for instance, there's a plot that, if you don't consent to it, more or less puts you in a completely different IC continuity than those who do. I try to avoid those sorts of things because they're not my cup of tea and, as I mentioned, they make RP quite difficult (not to mention how confusing they can be to totally new players trying to break into RP). Note that I'm not trying to denigrate this plot; I'm just pointing out that it's not my style, and I would personally like to not have to avoid RPing in a second city. Sad

A treasure hunt -- so long as the MacGuffin isn't something like, oh, the cure to a lethal plague cast o'er the land -- is a good way to do that. People can get involved, or not, as they see fit, and it has the particularly nice advantage of letting people opt out entirely ICly ("Uh-huh, a great treasure. And you heard that from a drunken privateer at the Wench while he had two whores giggling on his lap? Yeah, you go chase after that entirely real treasure..."). What I really would like to avoid is anything where those involved in the plot are living in a completely different continuity because of what the plot does.

That said, I do think building a hotspot for RP is probably the first step. It'll make it easier to launch any sort of larger plot and it'll let people see and get involved with other, smaller, FC-specific plots. Mysterium is right now dealing with a bunch of fanatical anti-magic, anti-religion cultists ostensibly based out of Ishgard, but who have agents in Limsa Lominsa; it's not a public plot per se insofar as we're not pushing it into the world as rumours or in public RP, but if anyone were interested, they could possibly overhear bits of it at the hotspot and get involved.

Kahn'a · **07-15-2014, 07:23 AM**

(07-14-2014, 05:05 PM)FreelanceWizard Wrote: So, I guess I'll poke this thread again.
I'm all in favor of plots that don't mandate participation or split continuity. In Ul'dah right now, for instance, there's a plot that, if you don't consent to it, more or less puts you in a completely different IC continuity than those who do. I try to avoid those sorts of things because they're not my cup of tea and, as I mentioned, they make RP quite difficult (not to mention how confusing they can be to totally new players trying to break into RP). Note that I'm not trying to denigrate this plot; I'm just pointing out that it's not my style, and I would personally like to not have to avoid RPing in a second city.

Little intrusion into the thread to address that matter directly. There are loads, and by loads I want to include you, of people that are overthinking the aftermaths of what's been happening with the plot we tried to organize in Ul'dah.

Facts: A bomb exploded outside of the city, city-wells have been poisoned, said poison has been discovered less than an hour afterwards, and cooperation has been organized to ship fresh and unsullied water from outside, including the immediate surroundings streams, while the sullied water is being drained away and cleansed.

And we've handled the poisoning this very way because of the possible leak poisoned wells would have brought to other people RPs, which is certainly not something we want. But to state that this plot is now creating a gap in IC continuation is a statement that can only be done with a lack of information and that has everything of a calumny. I mean the first goal of this event is to bring people together, not to enforce some kind of restraining facts that you, as a player outside of the plot, has to accept to order to stay coherant regarding the current events.

I am not disregarding that we, as organizers, have goofed on several areas that the plot was covering, but I want to remind people that most of those who helped to bring this wild idea of a plot alive have crazy schedules, and only want to do this for fun.

Anyway, I am overstaying my welcome, and only wanted you, as a player and keeper of this place, to have a clearer understanding of what the intentions are with this plot, and to avoid having false words spread, for it gives everyone involved a bad stain.

Enteris · **07-15-2014, 08:42 AM**

(07-14-2014, 05:05 PM)FreelanceWizard Wrote: I'm all in favor of plots that don't mandate participation or split continuity. In Ul'dah right now, for instance, there's a plot that, if you don't consent to it, more or less puts you in a completely different IC continuity than those who do. I try to avoid those sorts of things because they're not my cup of tea and, as I mentioned, they make RP quite difficult (not to mention how confusing they can be to totally new players trying to break into RP). Note that I'm not trying to denigrate this plot; I'm just pointing out that it's not my style, and I would personally like to not have to avoid RPing in a second city.

A million times this. Please do not ruin another city with another duality causing plot.

FreelanceWizard · **07-15-2014, 09:01 AM**

(07-15-2014, 07:23 AM)Haeden Wrote: And we've handled the poisoning this very way because of the possible leak poisoned wells would have brought to other people RPs, which is certainly not something we want. But to state that this plot is now creating a gap in IC continuation is a statement that can only be done with a lack of information and that has everything of a calumny. I mean the first goal of this event is to bring people together, not to enforce some kind of restraining facts that you, as a player outside of the plot, has to accept to order to stay coherant regarding the current events.

First off, I want to point out that I'm speaking as me, FreelanceWizard, not as the admin of the site or anything like that. I hope people know that when I don't explicitly put on the Magic Admin Hat, I'm not speaking for anyone other than myself as a fellow player.

This is getting a bit off-topic, but since it's sort of germane to the discussion on this thread, I suppose I can speak to it. The very fact that your plot had the city wells of Ul'dah being poisoned does, in fact, create a split IC continuity. If I don't consent to that having happened, how can I RP with people who do? They'll be commenting about how quickly the city had to react to the poison, how the wells are all being drained and cleansed, how people were dying/writhing in agony/etc. from the consequences of this poisoning, and the like. The only way I can RP with them is to either accept that this poisoning happened, or call them all crazy (which isn't really fruitful RP). So, yes, I am forced to accept the plot or play in a different continuity altogether if I want to RP with the people involved in the plot -- which is rather difficult when the plot is intentionally designed to get as many people involved as possible with big, obvious events. A poisoning of the city wells is the very definition of something everyone would know about, IMO; I just can't see how the events you describe could be effectively covered up and silenced in general RP. Are the people involved truly not discussing it in public or with others not involved? Are any fights occurring not happening in public?

Now, yes, you can say this about any large-scale plot, but an FC-wide plot, for instance, is something that can be written such that it doesn't leak out of that FC. In fact, some FCs that RP that they're actually going through the main storyline ICly meticulously elide that from their RP with those outside the FC. More to the point, if I don't want to RP with one FC, it's no big deal. A large city-wide plot puts me in the position of "roll with it, or don't RP with those who typically RP there."

Regardless, I'm sure those involved are having fun, but as I said, these sorts of things are completely not my cup of tea for the reasons I've stated. A more on-topic comment I'll make on this line of reasoning is that city-wide plots and serious law enforcement RP seem to be an Ul'dah thing, and if we want Limsa Lominsa to have a different feel, we might want to try a different tack (pun intended), and that seems to be where we're going. Smile

Also, do we want to maybe split the discussion part of this thread off from the directory part?

ArmachiA · **07-15-2014, 09:04 AM**

^ I think this is a good discussion and would like to share my opinion, but it's probably best this this split since it would derail Zhavi's attempts at bringing together Limsa Smile

FreelanceWizard · **07-15-2014, 12:25 PM**

*explicitly puts on Magic Admin Hat*

...That sounds dirty. Surprise

Ahem. This is a split from this thread about Limsa Lominsa RP. I've tried to keep the context together but, if I missed anything, please let me know and I'll try to use the thread Cuisinart again to recombine it.

McBeefâ„¢ · **07-15-2014, 12:51 PM**

Freelance wizard has a valid point, but Ul'dah has had that sort of split for a long time. For example many people claim to be members of various law enforcement linkshells, we had the Sultana herself at the ball, etc etc.

I think the way the plot has gone allows for people who want to ignore it just as much as they can ignore Natalie is a brass blade. I think most RPers are really good at compartmentalization, and if somone goes, "What poison." My reaction won't be to shun them, it will just be, "Oh good, if you don't feel the effects then you'll be fine."

My character wouldn't really talk about plot stuff unless it's someone involved or someone who wants to get involved. Even despite all the craziness I still wander around sometimes on patrol and harass people with RP tags as a brass blade, (I have a love of telling new highlander characters to get a job, ul'dah doesn't need any more mouths to feed.). No one as running around telling people they need to accept the poison plot, or that they even need to accept it to RP with us.

The RP community is a tangled web of continuities, as is the game itself, depending on where you are in the quests. The only way to avoid the problem is to either never do any RP besides light tavern RP, or do all serious RP so it doesn't leave a FC or LS. I don't really like either of those options, I like that you can make a new character, walk around Ul'dah and see crazy stuff going down, and it doesn't take any more then a tell to get involved. No other city has that at the moment, and I think it makes Ul'dah a magical place.

Again though, no one has to accept our continuities, and I think it's responsible for any of us involved to give players an out when we interact with them so they don't feel like they have to accept it or lose out on RP with us.

Melodia · **07-15-2014, 01:07 PM**

(07-15-2014, 12:51 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: Again though, no one has to accept our continuities, and I think it's responsible for any of us involved to give players an out when we interact with them so they don't feel like they have to accept it or lose out on RP with us.

This is a good sentiment. I wish everyone felt the same, but that's a whole other issue.

I think that the trouble comes in when there are big effects. Say for example, the rp event cost the lives of two people, PC folks who had interactions with Joe Roegadyn. And Joe Roe decided he didn't want to participate in the rp...refused to even acknolwedge it. Hell, he even walked right through it without a care so he could go fish.Â What happens to Joe Roe when that PC is dead? If he doesn't recognize the city wide rp, then isn't the PC still alive to Joe Roe?

LOL! It's just a thought and I feel like I am in my ethics class all over again asking it, but it's worth pondering. I mean if Joe Roe sees the PC as alive and didn't acknowldge it as a canon event, then how can he recognize the PC as dead?

*Brain falls out thinking about it*

McBeefâ„¢ · **07-15-2014, 01:17 PM**

(07-15-2014, 01:07 PM)Rurutani Wrote:
(07-15-2014, 12:51 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: Again though, no one has to accept our continuities, and I think it's responsible for any of us involved to give players an out when we interact with them so they don't feel like they have to accept it or lose out on RP with us.
This is a good sentiment. I wish everyone felt the same, but that's a whole other issue.

I think that the trouble comes in when there are big effects. Say for example, the rp event cost the lives of two people, PC folks who had interactions with Joe Roegadyn. And Joe Roe decided he didn't want to participate in the rp...refused to even acknolwedge it. Hell, he even walked right through it without a care so he could go fish.Â What happens to Joe Roe when that PC is dead? If he doesn't recognize the city wide rp, then isn't the PC still alive to Joe Roe?

LOL! It's just a thought and I feel like I am in my ethics class all over again asking it, but it's worth pondering. I mean if Joe Roe sees the PC as alive and didn't acknowldge it as a canon event, then how can he recognize the PC as dead?

*Brain falls out thinking about it*

I mean... you just have to deal with it? What if someone you've done lots of RP with suddenly unsubscribes, or transfers with no reason. You'll just have to work something out. It's the same thing in this case.

Kage · **07-15-2014, 01:22 PM**

I think a more apt question is: You say a lot of people died in the event. What if generic NPC died but I don't want them to? (LIke my character's friend or something)

You can choose to have it... not affect them. Like say Ul'dah got poisoned. People could have drunk from flasks at the moment it was bad etc. They drink from their own stores.. they drank bottled stuffÂ etc.

I don't think anyone is going to say Rauhbahn just got poisoned so... that's not an issue.

However if a Player Character has died they must have had some sort of Player consent. In which case you... can't do anything but accept that. If you don't accept the event as it is, tweak it. Or say "somehow. I don't know what, my friend was killed."

McBeefâ„¢ · **07-15-2014, 01:24 PM**

"Have you seen Bob lately?"

"You haven't heard? He's dead, Fell down the stairs and broke his neck apparently."

"Damn the syndicate and their lax building code standards!" *shakes fist at sky*

Sophia_Grave · **07-15-2014, 01:25 PM**

I feel as if divergent continuities is unavoidable here. There's literally dozens of in-place groups to RP as, and everyone has different views on them. For instance, the main scenario paints the Empire as a very goofy, evil-for-the-sake-of-evil group, but when you look at the lore behind the game, I find them very easy to sympathize with, especially when you take the Grand Companies' closet skeletons into account. That certainly spills into RP; there's many Garleans who're played as the 'revel in chaos' types, and there's others who lean more toward the lawful evil, 'for my country' types. Both of these types obviously go out and RP with all kinds of people, so there's always going to be a bit of a split with how they're referenced, viewed, and played with.

And of course, this happens with any group: I'm sure there are several splinters of each GC being played that don't exactly line up thematically or plot wise. That's fine, its in the nature of RP, after all. Essentially, its always going to happen when RP'ing, but it would be nice if efforts were taken for transition to be as painless as possible. Like Freelance said, its very hard to comfortably explain something like the water poisoning in a way where both parties are satisfied.

Melodia · **07-15-2014, 01:31 PM**

I just find the discussion interesting. Smile

Â I have no horse in the game really. Just asking hypotheticals and listening to opinions.

Like I said, I feel like I am in ehthics class.

Zhavi · **07-15-2014, 01:37 PM**

(07-15-2014, 01:07 PM)Rurutani Wrote: LOL! It's just a thought and I feel like I am in my ethics class all over again asking it, but it's worth pondering. I mean if Joe Roe sees the PC as alive and didn't acknowldge it as a canon event, then how can he recognize the PC as dead?

*Brain falls out thinking about it*

My high school art teacher was one of those teachers who didn't coddle. If you made a mistake, or something wasn't working, she'd tell us "You have a creative problem. So, find a creative solution for your creative problem." And then she'd just stare at you expectantly.

This is sort of the same vein. Sometimes, if things don't pan out or you don't want to be involved, you have to skim over it or, if you are so inclined, come up with something that has similar enough results so that ICly your characters don't have issues.

I mean, at the end of the day, to me it's not too big a deal. Back when I used to rp on MUDs we had admins who would retroactively stamp out our rp if they didn't like it. I'm talking 12 to 14 hours worth of grueling, down in the mud rp that an admin would say "nope, sorry, we're not doing that. " -- which would leave us in this weird lurch (and considering it was an IC attack on the admin's side in an ongoing conflict . . .welllll, you can imagine how well that went over. You want metagaming? I've got stories Big Grin

) that we'd just have to sort of skim over. In the absolute worst events, we'd just quietly keep our rp within our clan and extended rp connections.

So that sort of problem is, imo, a matter of sitting down and working out solutions to any conflicts of continuity, either as individuals or groups. I mean, I infinitely prefer to have everyone on the same page, but if that's not going to happen then I'd rather just figure out some sort of workable solution (because, at the heart of it, I don't believe that there are situations in rp that aren't in some way fixable) and get back in to that delicious rp.

ArmachiA · **07-15-2014, 01:58 PM**

I dislike any RP that forces a continuity that players may not actually want or forces people to either side with playing it or forces them to ignore it and therefore leave themselves out of RP.

No one, NO ONE, in this community has the right to force canon on a City -- whether you believe your doing it to players or not -- that the Developers do not have a hand in and forces a change on your server. There is no need for these kind of plots either, you can do smaller plots with the same impact but don't mess with the status quo.

We do not get to change the status quo, only the devs can do that.

I was all for the PC Sultana making a CAMEO at the ball, but I heard later she was being used in other plots and that was completely inappropriate. We do not get to change the status quo. Ever.

If a few members of the RP community attempt, up to and including poisoning an entire city that never gave consent - and people defend this action those members of the RP community have too much power. Period.

And say "But they can ignore it" all you want, the truth is - no you can't ignore. Those big names in Ul'dah will talk about it - because they are apart of it - and you will be forced to shun yourself because you refuse to acknowledge the RP. You'll have nothing to discuss if you pretend you have no idea whats going on. You end up being shunned, I'm not sure why people don't see this.

once again; we don't have the right the change the status quo. We are GMs of our stories, but we are NOT the GMs of the overarching world.

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City-wide RP plots (split from Limsa Lominsa RP Connections)

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes