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Kage · **07-24-2014, 01:38 PM**

Personally I think that it means that Seeker tribes basically have leaders in all genders. So females... or a Tia or two. Nunhs are just rarely it. They really are just the breeding male.

I think that Keepers are just PREDOMINANTLY matriarchal in the sense that it is very very highly unusual for a male to be leader.

McBeefâ„¢ · **07-24-2014, 01:39 PM**

(07-24-2014, 01:35 PM)Berrod Armstrong Wrote:
(07-24-2014, 01:32 PM)Naunet Wrote: I'm not really sure I understand what point you're trying to make. SE says nunhs aren't usually leaders. The U tribe is a clear exception to that. Uhm...?
Actually, the U tribe isn't an exception to that at all. The statement says that nunh's aren't usually leaders. The U tribe is unusual, but that falls within the statement! It's not exceptional in the slightest! If it was stated that nunhs are never leaders, however, then it would be an exception.

*Kicks the English language*

As another example. Isgardians are supposed to be xenophobic. Yet most of the Ishgardians you interact with in Coerthas think you're the greatest person ever. They even give supplies to Revenants Toll.

Does that mean Ishgardian's aren't xenophobic? No, it just means you can't infer the culture of an entire race yet. If they show more tribes all led by Nunh's then I'll agree with you.

Aerghwab · **07-24-2014, 01:41 PM**

(07-24-2014, 01:35 PM)Berrod Armstrong Wrote:
(07-24-2014, 01:32 PM)Naunet Wrote: I'm not really sure I understand what point you're trying to make. SE says nunhs aren't usually leaders. The U tribe is a clear exception to that. Uhm...?
Actually, the U tribe isn't an exception to that at all. The statement says that nunh's aren't usually leaders. The U tribe is unusual, but that falls within the statement! It's not exceptional in the slightest! If it was stated that nunhs are never leaders, however, then it would be an exception.

*Kicks the English language*

This. "Usually" vs. "never." Honestly, the biggest thing that confuses me about your earlier post is your lamenting the lack of a Seeker tribe with strong female leaders. Not that there aren't; I think it's quite possible. But the way the blurb on Keeper lore makes a point of stating that Keepers of the Moon are 'highly matriarchal' kind of implies that such a thing would be rare for Seekers of the Sun tribes.

Naunet · **07-24-2014, 01:48 PM**

(07-24-2014, 01:35 PM)Berrod Armstrong Wrote:
(07-24-2014, 01:32 PM)Naunet Wrote: I'm not really sure I understand what point you're trying to make. SE says nunhs aren't usually leaders. The U tribe is a clear exception to that. Uhm...?
Actually, the U tribe isn't an exception to that at all. The statement says that nunh's aren't usually leaders. The U tribe is unusual, but that falls within the statement! It's not exceptional in the slightest! If it was stated that nunhs are never leaders, however, then it would be an exception.

*Kicks the English language*

Really. Really? All of this down to semantics? *facepalm* I think it's pretty clear what I was talking about.

Aerghwab · **07-24-2014, 01:50 PM**

(07-24-2014, 01:48 PM)Naunet Wrote:
(07-24-2014, 01:35 PM)Berrod Armstrong Wrote:
(07-24-2014, 01:32 PM)Naunet Wrote: I'm not really sure I understand what point you're trying to make. SE says nunhs aren't usually leaders. The U tribe is a clear exception to that. Uhm...?
Actually, the U tribe isn't an exception to that at all. The statement says that nunh's aren't usually leaders. The U tribe is unusual, but that falls within the statement! It's not exceptional in the slightest! If it was stated that nunhs are never leaders, however, then it would be an exception.

*Kicks the English language*

Really. Really? All of this down to semantics? *facepalm* I think it's pretty clear what I was talking about.

...Â

I'll be more careful about asking clarifying questions in the future?

Naunet · **07-24-2014, 01:58 PM**

I think it's more than a little nitpicky (and rather misplaced nitpickiness) to try and argue the difference between, "Nunhs are rarely Seeker tribe leaders" and "Most Seeker tribes are not led by nunhs". There's no real difference. "Most ___", and there are exceptions to the "most", which includes the U tribe. We're all saying the same darn thing.

Berrod Armstrong · **07-24-2014, 02:02 PM**

Hmm. I'll scramble atop the shelves and pick this thing at the core. Essentially, I disagree about the U Tribe being fanservice. In terms of storytelling, the tribe seems written to facilitate the main story line -- more specifically, U'odh Nunh. As one of the company of heroes (RIP Tidus and Leviabeetus), his victory over a primal earned him leadership of his tribe.

But that's unusual! It could have been a female!

That's right! It could have been! But as we've seen in the storytelling of FFXIV, making something unusual gives it a certain emphasis and resonance. Nunh aren't usually leaders? Well this guy must have done something pretty darn special to have become one! The fact that there are 'scantily' clad females around doesn't really have much weight with regard to calling it fanservice. They wear the gear that's native to the region. The hot springs? A silly joke, but again, hardly fanservice. I do remember rubbing down Godbert Manderville's near nude form with oil at a hot spring, after all.Â

I think perhaps we may be looking too deeply into what was simply meant to be a storyline's facilitator.

Zyrusticae · **07-24-2014, 02:08 PM**

I will note that the Ala Mighans are also guilty of wearing gear that is extremely ill-suited to the desert.

You always cover your back, neck, and shoulders with light, light-colored fabric if you don't want to get sunburn. The rest of you could be naked for all I care, but the parts that are exposed most to the sun have to be covered. It's clear, however, that FFXIV's world simply doesn't care for this rule, in the same way you can run around in your bikini in Coerthas and your PC doesn't so much as shiver from the exposure.

So you know, yeah. Realism. Doesn't really work here, at least in this case.

McBeefâ„¢ · **07-24-2014, 02:15 PM**

Maybe he just has a really big dick.

Edit: Can we just stop with the stupid U tribe. It's just devolved into stupid nitpicking. Plenty of other gender issue fish in the gender issue sea.

Kage · **07-24-2014, 02:17 PM**

The U tribe's nunh? Well he -is- one of the non tempered mercs who took out a primal for a bit and then well... he's a nunh.

Naunet · **07-24-2014, 02:21 PM**

(07-24-2014, 02:08 PM)Zyrusticae Wrote: So you know, yeah. Realism. Doesn't really work here, at least in this case.

At least as far as the in-game models go. ^^; *continues to imagine her character(s) in desert-appropriate wear*

McBeefâ„¢ · **07-24-2014, 02:24 PM**

To move the conversation in a new direction.

How much do we know about the genders of the beast tribes? Besides the slyphs they seem to reproduce sexually. The Kobold quests show "Comely Kobold Lasses" so we know what their females look like. Theoretically Brayflox is a female as well I think.

Do we ever see female lizard people and fish people?

Warren Castille · **07-24-2014, 02:26 PM**

(07-24-2014, 02:21 PM)Naunet Wrote:
(07-24-2014, 02:08 PM)Zyrusticae Wrote: So you know, yeah. Realism. Doesn't really work here, at least in this case.

At least as far as the in-game models go. ^^; *continues to imagine her character(s) in desert-appropriate wear*

In a world where potions and the like can restore someone from the brink of death, exposure to the elements is possibly the least-serious thing someone can worry about. Realism need not apply in any setting where magical healing is present.

Tangent: Given what we know about magic and what we fluff for healing, it's entirely plausible that our characters never need to eat or sleep. Ever. Any damage done by malnutrition would theoretically be restored any time we're healed and any effects of not sleeping would be similarly rejuvenated. You could, in theory, play a completely nude, completely-pale Duskwight elezen who fasts in the hottest parts of the Sagoli, sustaining yourself only on ethers, and still return to your lands without so much as a tan provided you keep yourself refreshed.

All canonical, if you decide it.

This argument is dumb.

Warren Castille · **07-24-2014, 02:27 PM**

(07-24-2014, 02:24 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: To move the conversation in a new direction.

How much do we know about the genders of the beast tribes? Besides the slyphs they seem to reproduce sexually. The Kobold quests show "Comely Kobold Lasses" so we know what their females look like. Theoretically Brayflox is a female as well I think.

Do we ever see female lizard people and fish people?

Eggs are laid and hatched, in the case of the Sahagin.

Berrod Armstrong · **07-24-2014, 02:27 PM**

(07-24-2014, 02:24 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: To move the conversation in a new direction.

How much do we know about the genders of the beast tribes? Besides the slyphs they seem to reproduce sexually. The Kobold quests show "Comely Kobold Lasses" so we know what their females look like. Theoretically Brayflox is a female as well I think.

Do we ever see female lizard people and fish people?

I remember giggling about a bit of lore that said that the male and female Amalj'aa looked pretty much the same and that only the Amalj'aa themselves could really tell. I'll try to source it later.

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Gender roles

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes