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Kalooeh · **04-23-2015, 05:10 AM**

So I came up with a background for my skittish kitty where she's from Bentbranch, but I have discovered that apparently Keepers are likely to run in to problems because of the Keeper poachers
So my question(s) is(are),
Is this like a major hatred thing towards keepers, wariness because a lot of poachers are keepers?
what kind of problems would my kitty go through with people, even if she grew up in the twelveswood, worked with raising chocobos, and is a conjurer? (I guess ignoring too that she's the type of person that wants to try to be friends with everyone, cries easily [especially over people or animals getting hurt], and yells at strangers doing weird things that may upset the elementals).

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Finding lore stuff is a surprisingly huge pain in the ass through googling.... or at least it is for me after WoW stuff.

***Maril*** · **04-23-2015, 05:22 AM**

Off the top of my head I'd imagine most problems could come from strangers that do not know her, and tend to be more judgemental than not. Wailers might try to frame her for something despite being innocent, if they're being especially bad. Strangers may pass a judgemental comment, refuse to trade with her, ignore her presence in a crowd etc.Â

I think the disliking could be compared to how a lot of Ul'dahrans regard highlanders as leeches, they've maybe become more tolerated with time - but hearing the odd negative comment or getting shut out from certain places would still be a thing.Â

I don't think keepers would be outright hunted down and harmed though, not in these times, lest there was a group of people that specificly did that. I think harming people with no "noble" intent though is against the gridanian law? (Don't quote me on it, but that's how I think it might be)

Rosamund · **04-23-2015, 05:50 AM**

(04-23-2015, 05:10 AM)Kalooeh Wrote: Is this like a major hatred thing towards keepers, wariness because a lot of poachers are keepers?

I think wariness and distrust wouldn't be surprising. The archer quests have an elezen and a Keeper as your trainers. Going from memory here but the elezen shows utter contempt for the Keeper in the early quests and changes his attitude over time. That said, it seems like Gridanians have more prejudice against non-Gridanians than Keepers specifically. At least, that's the feeling I got from the quests there, like this one here.

So I think you might run into some prejudice because you're a Keeper but overall you'd have acceptance (albeit grudging in some cases) unless you started, say, going hunting out in the Shroud.

Might be some people more up on the lore who can say for certain but that's what I've gathered from what I've found in game. Smile

Leanne · **04-23-2015, 05:52 AM**

While there might be still one or another people that can be distrustful of keepers, the discrimination against them is an outdated thing, most of the vitriolic/xenophobic hate being turned toward the duskwights. If you are to notice, a lot of wailers and quivers are actually keepers, a thing that implies to me this hate is pretty much gone, remaining only in those that suffered really bad things from the poachers, or people stuck in the past.

EDIT: As to add an extra point to my words, the postmoogle quests show the story of a keeper that is captain of an 'elite' quivers group. I think that'd be another hint that keepers are now a pretty much accepted race in the Gridanian community!

Knight Kat · **04-23-2015, 06:12 AM**

JUMPING ON THIS ONE BEFORE IT GETS SWARMED! MINE!

*ahem*

I have read countless tidbits of lore form the Archery Class Quest-line, Quests in South Shroud and the Moogle Delivery Quest called "The Past is a Story We Never Tell". All are regarding the culture and lore around Keepers of the Moon. On request, I can link screenshots and quotes from all this that I saved.

To answer your questions:

Keepers of the Moon are sometimes referred to as "savages" by Silvarre (Elezen senior member of the Archery Guild) from the Archery Class Quest-line. In the Quest-line, you meet with the infamous leader of a Keeper poacher group. She hints at archery being a point of pride for Keepers of the Moon. However, you also have a Keeper character, Leih Aliapoh, who is an adventurer from a farming village. She too has been raised with pride in her own family's traditional archery. She is not a poacher. Regardless, Silvarre calls them both "savages", and treats them as inferior.

So, there is racism against Keepers, but it may not be prevalent enough to -always- keep them at the bottom of society. There are Keeper Wood Wailers, Keeper Adders, Keeper Guild-workers and Leih Aliapoh is allowed to become a senior member of the Archery Guild. The Moon-keepers can be seen dotting the map in Gridania.

In the South Shroud Quests and the Moogle Delivery Quest "The Past is a Story We Never Tell", The Coeurlclaw Poachers seem to be considered a bastardization, or even an abomination, to Moon-keeper traditions. They give Moon-keepers a bad name, but many Keepers go to them out of desperation. It is referenced several times that some Keepers go to the Coeurlclaws because they can't afford to feed their families or pay for medical treatment; especially, after the Calamity.

This seems to tell me that they usually have a low-class standing in Gridanian society. Heck, even the speech given by the Elder Seed-seer describes how Gridania's (Twin Serpents) banner is a representation of unity between Elezen and Hyur. I'm pretty sure Keepers are not mentioned in that speech.

Despite the bad reputation, many try to be perfectly law-abiding members of Gridanian society. Traditional Keepers, described by Mauh Lihzeh in the aforementioned Moogle Messenger quest, do believe in respecting the Twelveswood and its Elementals. They can be sentimental and family-oriented.

TL;DR: The Keeper Poachers are the exception, not the rule. Unfortunately, they are the exception that gives the Clan a bad name. I would say there is wariness of Keepers, but not enough to stop those that prove themselves from becoming part of society.

It should be noted that Duskwight Elezen just might have it worse in the Twelveswood. However, that is a separate lore discussion. Smile

myahele · **04-24-2015, 05:46 PM**

I think the further you go from gridania city the worse the descrimination is against keepers. As well as more poaching going on which adds fuel to their hatred.

I certainly do not recommend wandering the shroud without a chappererone.

allgivenover · **04-24-2015, 05:50 PM**

Myself and the person I started Rakka'li's background with wrote that poaching was the exception, not the rule. And it seems the way the Coerlclaws played out matches up with that.

I imagine there are some people who look poorly on Keepers, but it's not nearly the level of prejudice that Duskwight put up with.

K'nahli · **04-24-2015, 06:07 PM**

I don't know. Could the same not be said for hyurs since you have the redbellies operating in the same area? If there are still a lot of tribal clans out there then I doubt Coeurclaw Poachers constitute as a significant number to have people wary of every Keeper they see.

Knight Kat · **04-24-2015, 07:26 PM**

I'm almost certain that the Redbelly Wasp Bandits are all Duskwights. Almost. I can double-check that soon enough.

As for Keepers of the Moon, here's the proof:

Warning: the following are major spoilers from the Moogle Delivery Quest "The Past is a Story We Never Tell" and the Archery Guild Quest-line. I have narrowed down the screenshots as much as possible, so there might be some lacking context, but I took screenshots of every scene in those quests, so I can link more.

Show Content

As always, people should play what they want. I like to think of lore as a good means of authentic inspiration, and not information that should restrict people. Therefore, I am not advocating that every Keeper PC in the Twelveswood be played as oppressed by society. However, if someone wants to know if there is racism/prejudice against Keepers, there is the proof in my spoiler above.

People can argue that that is a representation of something uncommon, but it's hard to say in this game sometimes.

My personal interpretation is that the racism exists, but is not everywhere and everyone. Such a thing is realistic after all. We also have what the devs said on the Las Vegas Lore panel about the races not getting along, but standing united in the face of the many threats in Eorzea due to necessity.

I say, people should use the information as they interpret it best. The most important part is telling a good story in the end.

Kalooeh · **04-28-2015, 08:36 AM**

(04-24-2015, 07:26 PM)Knight Kat Wrote: I'm almost certain that the Redbelly Wasp Bandits are all Duskwights. Almost. I can double-check that soon enough.

As for Keepers of the Moon, here's the proof:

Warning: the following are major spoilers from the Moogle Delivery Quest "The Past is a Story We Never Tell" and the Archery Guild Quest-line. I have narrowed down the screenshots as much as possible, so there might be some lacking context, but I took screenshots of every scene in those quests, so I can link more.

Show Content

Spoiler

Muah speaks about the effect the Coeurlclaws have on the reputation of Keepers.^

Wood Wailer bigotry against Keepers at its worse.^

^Silvairre's generalized attitude towards Keepers; even one who is supposed to be his comrade...

^A stereotyped perception of one's own race/Clan.

^Good ol' Silvairre referring to Player-character and Leih in this one. He's here all week.

As always, people should play what they want. I like to think of lore as a good means of authentic inspiration, and not information that should restrict people. Therefore, I am not advocating that every Keeper PC in the Twelveswood be played as oppressed by society. However, if someone wants to know if there is racism/prejudice against Keepers, there is the proof in my spoiler above.

People can argue that that is a representation of something uncommon, but it's hard to say in this game sometimes.

My personal interpretation is that the racism exists, but is not everywhere and everyone. Such a thing is realistic after all. We also have what the devs said on the Las Vegas Lore panel about the races not getting along, but standing united in the face of the many threats in Eorzea due to necessity.

I say, people should use the information as they interpret it best. The most important part is telling a good story in the end.

Alright thanks! Screenshots helped. I forgot a lot of the archery stuff as I wasn't really rping the keeper much, and did the archery with my hyur, and wasn't really paying much attention.
Havn't gotten to the other one but don't mind spoilers.
I'm not going to change her personality or anything, and still just going to react to how other people treat her icly, but good to know too if it comes up and how she may react around certain kinds of people, so not thrown off so much if the subject comes up again.
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Manari · **04-30-2015, 04:05 PM**

I haven't RPed in a very long time, but I'm glad to see there are finally some other traditional Keepers around. Even right after ARR started there were almost none of us.

I've been trying my best to RP a very traditional Keeper of the Moon since early 1.0. Collecting lore tidbits has been very hard up until 2.0 happened, but it's always seemed to me that Keepers of the Moon had a complicated history with Gridania and Wildwoods. I always felt like I should RP getting along with Duskwights and RP having issues with Wildwoods.

I combed through all the Gridania quests that I could for lore, but it seems like the previous posters found a few more things than I could.

I just wanted to add that it was always my personal feeling that truly traditional Keepers would probably be far more loyal to the Twelveswood as a whole and care less about Gridania specifically. I've always RPed Manari as being very eager to bond with other Keepers that she meets, yet also having a burning hatred for the poachers that have made her life hard by giving her a bad reputation, regardless of the fact that they, too, are Keepers.

Taki'a_Venn · **04-30-2015, 04:25 PM**

I haven't noticed much in Ul'dah about people disliking or distrusting Keepers.Â As near as I can tell from the various newbie quests in that area most Ul'dahns just see "cat person" and leave it at that, the finer point doesn't appear to register or if it registers it just doesn't appear to matter.

Can't really say about Limsa, haven't tooled around it much.

FreelanceWizard · **04-30-2015, 04:28 PM**

Keepers aren't especially common in Vylbrand; that's Seeker territory. In general, miqo'te seem fairly accepted in Limsan society, filling roles ranging from head of the Foreign Levy of the Maelstrom to privateers, from customs agents to windmill operators.

Manari · **04-30-2015, 04:51 PM**

One thing I did do, both back in 1.0 and right away as soon as 2.0 was released, was travel across every city and camp, looking at every NPC I could find to see how many Keepers of the Moon I could find outside of the Black Shroud. My search wasn't necessarily 100% all inclusive, but after a lengthy trip across the realm right after ARR went live, I think I had found something like 3 Keepers in all of La Noscea, and I don't think I even found one in Thanalan. But they are very common all throughout the Black Shroud.

But regardless of whether or not I missed a few, it is plain to see that Keepers of the Moon absolutely prefer to stay within their forest. And that made me happy because that's exactly how I've always RPed Manari since day one.

Now Seekers of the Sun, those girls are everywhere. I found tons of them in La Nocsea and Thanalan, of course. But there are also a surprisingly large amount of them even in the Black Shroud. I found this interesting to take note of.

Taki'a_Venn · **04-30-2015, 05:40 PM**

(04-30-2015, 04:51 PM)Manari Wrote: Now Seekers of the Sun, those girls are everywhere. Â I found tons of them in La Nocsea and Thanalan, of course. Â But there are also a surprisingly large amount of them even in the Black Shroud. Â I found this interesting to take note of.

Slightly off topic but I think poor Taki'a is completely confused and slightly disturbed by Seeker girls.Â Seeker culture is a demented inversion of Keeper culture (his perspective)Â and he finds it baffling.Â Most of the non-Keeper cultures are like that, so he has regular culture shock I suppose Wink

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