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Melkire · **10-18-2016, 12:39 PM**

Seeing as how the lore book's dropped, I thought this an appropriate topic to revisit, given all the clamoring for anything and everything that might assist RP where deity worship and Eorzean beliefs are concerned.

More specifically, however (and in part because I don't have access to the lore book outside of what I find online), I'd like to discuss the Creation Myth.

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I find this to be particularly fascinating, not because it necessarily retcons anything (it doesn't) but because it goes into a lot more depth and reveals key facets of the gods' relationship that we (probably) weren't privy to earlier.

The Whorl is obviously the usual "primordial chaos" schtick. The formation of the world after Althyk's "weight" (space-time fabric, anyone?) brings it into being also follows the usual pattern: from the "lake" come rivers, and those rivers coupled with the sun yield life, etc.

The parallels between Althyk, Nymeia, Rhalgr and Zodiark, Hydaelyn, Midgardsormr are somewhat disturbing (not in the least because it equates the former patron god of Ala Mhigo to the King of Dragons) but there's been enough in the way of history on the last three to suggest that the parallels aren't entirely coincidental:

Althyk and Nymeia predate everything else... just as Zodiark and Hydaelyn do.
Midgardsormr did, if you recall, come to this star from elsewhere... and he honors a covenant with Hydaelyn.

I'm personally fascinated in how Oschon resembles Tulkas and Orome of Tolkien's legendarium, in that he basically shows up out of nowhere to the complete and utter bafflement of the other gods, only to wander the earth. More interesting in general, though, is the ongoing romance between him and Llymlaen, when older material links Oschon and Menphina as lovers. Note that the relationship with Menphina isn't nixed or retconned by this; the relationship with Llymlaen just seems to predate it. Menphina, strangely enough, gets only a passing mention. Oschon's also responsible for Nald'thal... that's strange to say the least, since they're supposed to be siblings.

Surprising revelation: Byregot and Halone were not sired by Rhalgr, but rather he was appointed as their mentor/guardian/stepfather. Again we have parallels linking Nymeia to Hydaelyn, beyond the bit about her weeping and caring for Her children: she deliberately pairs up Byregot with Rhalgr so as to promote balance.

The rivalry between Nophica and Halone also finally receives some much-needed detail and background, seeing as how it stems from Oschon taking Halone under his wing.

Thoughts?

Trigonxv · **10-18-2016, 12:49 PM**

I like to add that maybe the comet brought down from the heavens was Hydaelyn maybe bringing the stability

Melkire · **10-18-2016, 12:50 PM**

(10-18-2016, 12:49 PM)Trigonxv Wrote: I like to add that maybe the comet brought down from the heavens was Hydaelyn maybe bringing the stability

Yeah, that was my take-away as well. The comet, of course, being Rhalgr himself and the origin of his symbol/sigil.

É´á´˜á´„ · **10-18-2016, 12:51 PM**

Well, I usually like to factor my characters' Guardians heavily into their personality or backstory. This certainly gives me something new to consider for my Althyk-touched alts. Disturbing imagery notwithstanding.

Melkire · **10-18-2016, 12:55 PM**

(10-18-2016, 12:51 PM)É´á´˜á´„ Wrote: Well, I usually like to factor my characters' Guardians heavily into their personality or backstory. This certainly gives me something new to consider for my Althyk-touched alts. Disturbing imagery notwithstanding.

Things to keep in mind:

Althyk raised Nymeia as his own, even though she wasn't.
The taboo against parent-child relations holds more in the modern West than it did in the ancient East.
This has parallels with Adam and Eve, as well as other early biblical figures who populated the earth.

Still somewhat disturbing, but taken in the light of ancient deities of a world not our own, it's... not as bad.

Something to note: Althyk more or less disappears from the Myth altogether after they conceive Azeyma and Menphina.

Kilieit · **10-18-2016, 12:58 PM**

I'm similar to É´á´˜á´„ - most of my characters don't exactly worship their guardian deities, but I like them to match. So this has given me some fodder to maybe switch them around a bit.

I think I'm keeping Aghurlal as Byregot - initially I was like "well it doesn't work as well if Byregot isn't Rhalgr's actual son", but then I remembered the implication I wrote into Aghurlal's backstory that he isn't really his father's son either, but a bastard by his mother. So while the analogy isn't direct... it wasn't really direct before either, haha!

He's still got the whole "separating from his father in order to build instead of destroying" thing going on, so it's cool.

And it's not a real pantheon if there's no symbolic incest.

Caspar · **10-18-2016, 01:06 PM**

The comet concept is interesting. I wonder how present the Twelve were in ancient times before the calamity, as a formless power or actual visible deities. The meteor reminds me both of Dalamud and Mid. I wonder if it could be traces of an even more ancient period in which similar acts of extreme, world shaping destruction were undertaken.

Trigonxv · **10-18-2016, 01:11 PM**

https://youtu.be/XKbHViJuCwk watching this will also help pull things together more in relation to this

Halorien · **10-18-2016, 01:37 PM**

I found it to be really a fantastic read, myself. It's nice to have at least a version of a fixed myth form of the gods' creations and their order of precedence. As sort of a world builder in my spare time, working with deities is always difficult. With polytheistic fact in Eorzea, each one needs to be powerful but not too strong, so that they obviously check and balance each other is fantastic.Â

I'm in agreement regarding Nophica and and Halone; the rivalry makes a lot of sense now. Nophica was clearly angry over wanton destruction, but that's the Fury for you I suppose. It makes me wonder about writing an Ishgardian that actually acknowledges the other gods, because they don't seem to do so very much.

Sounsyy · **10-18-2016, 01:55 PM**

(10-18-2016, 12:39 PM)Melkire Wrote: More interesting in general, though, is the ongoing romance between him and Llymlaen, when older material links Oschon and Menphina as lovers. Note that the relationship with Menphina isn't nixed or retconned by this; the relationship with Llymlaen just seems to predate it.

This is actually, albeit obscurely, talked about before. Oschon and Llymlaen have a thing, but Llymlaen eventually gets angry with Oschon because he creeps on her, which leads to Oschon eventually taking Menphina as His divine lover instead.

Navigator's Brand Wrote:Cousin to the Navigator's dagger, fishers believe that this wavekin was the blade that Llymlaen threw at Oschon in Her fury at having Her naked form espied. The incident led to the latter taking Menphina as His lover.

More lore I've compiled on the Twelve outside this creation myth and lore book can be found in the Religious Texts and Religion thread, as well as specific posts on Menphina and Azeyma so far. Gods, I've got so much lore updating to do...

Something else that's interesting to note... is that while this may be the overarching "Creation Myth" other cultures and city-states seem to have their own variation of Creation based more upon the specific gods they revere.

For instance, Limsa Lominsa's creation myth:

Sisipu Wrote:Legend has it that long, long ago, the world was a parched wasteland, filled with nothing but fire and rocks. Llymlaen, the Navigator, saw this and created a giant serpent to spout forth water and create Eorzea's oceans. But soon she realized that the serpent would never stop, and that all the land would one day disappear beneath the waves, so she sealed the beast away within a floating island called Swallowtail Roam. The island drifts about the sea so that those with evil intentions might never find it... If the rumors are true, and the sea serpent has escaped from Swallowtail Roam, then it won't be long before the seas begin to rise once more, and Limsa Lominsa is swallowed whole.

Fernehalwes Wrote:Oda-san talks about how this area (geologically) was once located far under the sea, but that tectonic activity saw the land thrust up countless years ago, exposing the shells and bones. He then talks about how the name Thalaos is from an Eorzean creation myth. This myth speaks of how long ago, the world was dry. Llymlaen saw this and decided that the world needed water. She created the sea serpent Thalaos to do this. From the serpentâ€™s mouths flowed forth a never-ending fount of water which, eventually created Hydaelynâ€™s seas. When Llymlaen was satisfied with the water level, she sealed the serpent in an island to prevent him from flooding the world. To ensure that no men could find the serpent and use him for evil, she enchanted the island, making it wander the seas.

Erik's explanation on Midgardsormr's Creation Myth:

Erik Wrote:I do not claim to be a folklorist, but I can certainly provide the general tale. There was the birth of Althyk, god of time among the Twelve, and in turn, His younger sister Nymeia, goddess of fate. And then there was water, and through it Silvertear Falls came to be at the center of all that was. Here was the source not only of water, but the fount of all magic as well. Now, when water came into being, so too did the great dragon Midgardsormr. Brother Time and Sister Fate, fearing the Falls might fall into the hands of evil, ordered Midgardsormr their protector and warden. Much later, with the arrival of man, would Midgardsormr be worshiped as the guardian deity of Silvertear Falls.

Possible Byregot creation myth?:

Diego Athral Wrote:They say a rolling stone gathers no moss, and these stones here look as if they have not moved an ilm since the great Byregot cast them down from the heavens... if you believe that sort of nonsense.

Fernehalwes Wrote:Oda-san here comments on the intersection of fact and fiction, and how behind a lot of the fantastical myths in Eorzea are merely misinterpretations of facts long forgotten.

In short, lots of good stuff!

Melkire · **10-18-2016, 02:05 PM**

There's also the Auri creation myth of Azim and Nharma, Dawn Father and Dusk Mother, which parallels Althyk/Nymeia and Zodiark/Hydaelyn... albeit "light and dark" get interchanged between the genders.

Oli! · **10-18-2016, 03:04 PM**

I'm just glad that my BS about Rhalgr destroying in order to balance things turned out accurate.

Though there were only so many ways Squeenix would have taken a destruction god anyway.

Melkire · **10-18-2016, 05:07 PM**

Re: the Navigator's Brand,

The animosity between Llymlaen and Oschon shows up repeatedly, but I don't think we've had any indication until now that the Navigator fell in love with the Wanderer. The Brand tidbit is more Oschon being rejected... as well he should have been, playing the peeping Tom to Llymlaen's nymph/mermaid.

Qwynn · **10-18-2016, 05:48 PM**

I'm under the assumption this is still a predominately Eorzean creation myth, correct? Has their been anything revealed in the lorebook regarding religions of other regions?

Nako Vesh · **10-20-2016, 10:52 AM**

I have to admit I'm a little miffed at such short mention of Menphina, but the revelation about Oshon just appearing is very interesting.

I like to apply my characters birth month as if it were an Eorzean zodiac, just for a fun character building exercise. When I initially started the game, I didn't look too carefully at the Eorzean calendar and chose the 3rd Umbral Moon by mistake. Ever since I've been thinking of changing it, but looking at this information, and reading up on Oshon, it's serendipitous considering how my character eventually turned out. And now this makes me want to write. Hmm...

Thanks for sharing this!

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The Twelve: Creation Myth and More

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes