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Acistian · **05-17-2013, 04:52 AM**

Just reviewing, but going back to the 5th letter:

Quote:Q: NPCs in Ul'dah have moved, but has the city itself changed?

Quote:If you take a close look at the End of an Era trailer, you'll see that Ul'dah wasn't actually hit by Bahamut's megaflare attack. Alot of work went into the design of that attack and the points where it would strike, and we purposely spared Ul'dah in the video.
As those who participated in the alpha test discovered, a lot of changes have been made to Gridania, and although it's yet to be released, this applies to Limsa Lominsa as well. Ul'dah, however, has undergone surprisingly few changes. We're not in phase 3 yet so the area looks a little empty, but we'll be adding plenty of NPCs and quests.
Also, there were not that many NPCs to be placed. From that base, we have been adding addition NPCs, including ones that give quests. Despite this, the feel of Ulâ€™dah in A Realm Reborn will be quite different from that of 1.0. Additionally, the Gate of Nald, which was originally sealed off, will be opened.

I've looked at the video a few times, but I can not see where BahamutÂ supposedlyÂ "missed" Ul'dah. I only remember seeing someÂ debris from Dalamund falling and (near) hitting the side of it.Â

This makes me wonder, because I have my "future" character a citizen of Ul'dah. Would it be even correct to say that this character had witnessed this event, but didn't actually participate in it? (wasn't in the game for 1.0) As I am attempting to write out his history.

I have my character that was born in 1555 of the Sixth Astral Era, which at the start of ARR, would make him currently twenty-two years of age. (By what the Wiki says, and my calculations.)
Also from what the wiki says, is that Dalamund fell 1572, which would make him seventeen.Â

On another note, with the male Miqo'te being introduced, I wonder how this would be placed into lore, as once there were really only female Miqo'te running around. I'm just wondering how the sudden influx of males would have come about and if that's evenÂ plausible due to the "low" birthrate of male Miqo'te.Â

Could there have been another migration from where the Miqo'te originally hadÂ resided?Â
Did perhaps the original males "hidden" away decide to one day just go out and explore, and defy theirÂ roles within Miqo'te society and culture?
Or maybe at some point, fate decided to say, "Hey, baby boom of Male Miqo'te" at some point in time? (but this could be irrelevant due to: )

Quote:"Nature merely sees to it that more females are born to this race."

(My character would be a male Keeper of the Moon by the way.)

Uther · **05-17-2013, 06:16 AM**

These are good questions that I don't have the answer for but I'm sort of wondering the same thing. I've been wondering about the Male Miqo'te thing for a while (though honestly, I'm not playing one as of yet so I have to admit I don't really care.) and I've been thinking the Ul'dah thing over.

My character is from Ul'dah, and disappeared when Dalamud fell. It was easy for him to run away because of the chaos. I never expected that Ul'dah itself was being destroyed, but I always assumed the danger was close and real enough so that there would be hysteria in the streets and make it easy for him to slip out of town unnoticed. If someone could clear up the exact impact the event had on Ul'dah, it would really help me get my story straight.

Caysen · **05-17-2013, 12:42 PM**

(05-17-2013, 04:52 AM)Acistian Wrote: I've looked at the video a few times, but I can not see where BahamutÂ supposedlyÂ "missed" Ul'dah. I only remember seeing someÂ debris from Dalamund falling and (near) hitting the side of it.

I think it's more hinted at than specifically shown. Bahamut is only shown attacking Limsa, so you could reasonably infer that Ul'dah and Gridania aren't hit in the video. He doesn't say anything about Gridania though.

Aysun · **05-17-2013, 05:27 PM**

The point in the trailer:
ZEE TRAILER

They are talking about at 3:15. It shows the initial "burst" from Bahamut's freedom striking "behind" Ul'dah. The city itself was not struck, but Thanalan probably got hit depending on the perspective.

I would assume that if your character was in Ul'dah at the time of this that they would definitely have seen it happened.

You're correct: at the start of ARR, it will be 1577. Dalamud fell in 1572. If your character was born in 1555 (assuming January), then they will be 17 when Dalamud fell, and 22 at the start of ARR. In January 2014, most (if not all) RPers will be playing in the year 1578, even though time in ARR will be static to NPCs.

I do not know if SE has decided to give a reason as to why the male Miqo'te are suddenly coming out of hiding and becoming adventurers when they haven't been before. I doubt it will be something as complex as an additional migration or something. The Miqo'te we have in Eorzea are descendents of that initial migration. If anything they might just say they were motivated to be more open due to the attack. I find it highly likely that they'll say NOTHING though lol, and leave us to just assume that they were always around in these low numbers.

The surge in male Miqo'te in the RP community, however, will likely never be brought up ("Sure are a lot of male miqos around these days" is not something I think I'll hear IC), much like the fact that there are a crapton more female Miqo'te in the community than what is "normal" for distribution of the races in Eorzea according to SE is generally ignored.

Basically, don't think so much on it. Just play your character and trust that others aren't going to nitpick over these sorts of little details because they just bring up more questions than answers (and questions that remain unanswered by SE). They'll nitpick over stuff that goes against what we DO know, not what we don't. Smile

Acistian · **05-17-2013, 11:43 PM**

Thank you for clearing some of this up.

As for the miqo'te situation, its more of a small curiosity, but also under the lines of evaluation and understanding. I've yet to play FFXIV, so the story line is a little more blurred without seeing the full picture in action, and allowing things to connect naturally.

I'm not a heavy RPer, but I've always attempted to remain close to the story as much as I can, and at least try to have a back-story that won't be seen as "carelessly thrown together." I feel the need to put some effort into the creation.

As deduction, I can assume he either traveled with his mother to Ul'dah or ran away from home/tribe, perhaps trying to escape the matriarch society and rules to live a life more to his favor.Â
Being as the second birth son ('to), I am also debating if this relative (the first born) is alive, missing, or deceased to add another section to his story.
I am fully aware that these are all my choices, but its really nice to get some opinions and see the outside looking in.

allgivenover · **05-18-2013, 12:02 AM**

As I understood it, the low birthrate only applies for male Keepers of the Moon.

Aysun · **05-18-2013, 12:03 AM**

(05-18-2013, 12:02 AM)allgivenover Wrote: As I understood it, the low birthrate only applies for male Keepers of the Moon.

They say "race" not "clan" -- it applies to both. Smile

allgivenover · **05-18-2013, 12:14 AM**

They are a separate race. They have distinct traits shared among the population that is not found in Seekers, and the note of them being rare is presented as follows:

Quote:...rarely do even the largest Keeper of the Moon families have more than two or three sons. This is not by choice. Nature merely sees to it that more females are born to this race.

It's referring specifically to Keeper of the Moon males. I took it as meaning that Keeper males were rare and that Seeker males had a higher birth rate - hence the competition among them for the status of Nuhn.

Rhostel · **05-18-2013, 01:30 AM**

(05-18-2013, 12:14 AM)allgivenover Wrote: They are a separate race. They have distinct traits shared among the population that is not found in Seekers

That's not how the term race is used in the game. In fact, it's technically not valid to use it that way even in real life. 'Race' as categorisation for peoples of different regions who have developed physical features suited to their environment dates back to a time when that was thought to indicate being of different species. In reality, all humans are the same sub-species and the differences are all minor clinal variations.

It follows that, given that at least some Eorzean races can crossbreed, they have to be the same genus. Chances are, they're the same species. That means Clans of a single race have to be the same sub-species, given how similar they are. They even breed true so readily that cross-Clan traits are being added to the character creator suggesting characters can have ancestors from another Clan going back generations. The difference between Clans are no greater in magnitude than the differences between some groups of real world humans.

Therefore, calling Clans races just doesn't hold up in any sense, and the writers of FFXIV are smart enough to know that.

Yes, that text was referring specifically to Keeper males. That's because it was in a larger piece talking exclusively about Keepers. It doesn't mean that 'race' isn't referring to Miqo'te as a whole, just that it's discussing a Miqo'te trait in the cultural context of Keepers. A low birth rate for males is exactly why the nuhn system is in place; few males means the opportunity for multiple female partners anyway, so powerful males try to get as many as possible. They set up the precedent that the strongest male gets all the mates, and over generations it becomes formalised. It becomes the accepted state, so that other males can decide to pursue other lifestyles instead of just fighting to become nuhn until winning or dying.

Acistian · **05-18-2013, 01:30 AM**

Either way, it would present an... interesting challenge/story. I hope....

Originally, that quote had me a bit confused, but I had thought that the Miqo'te in general were one race, while just keepers and seekers were divided by cultural and religious outlooks, which provided an adaptation through their ways of living (i.e: markings, coloration, etc...). Perhaps maybe there was a miss interpretation of the words "race" and "clan"? Or maybe someone forgot to press the enter key and put it on its own line.

Either or, the idea of how they suddenly popped up is a mystery, but I can only guess a reasonable explanation, but this shouldn't have much affect on his story line at least.... unless I'm going into extreme detail, and that could be a little overkill.

Rhostel · **05-18-2013, 03:20 AM**

The obvious reason why male Miqo'te, of either Clan, are now appearing is that Eorzea has just been through a disaster that's forced a change of lifestyle.

I expect much of the traditional tribal territories have been overrun with monsters or laid waste by either Bahamut or Dalamud. This means the males can no longer hide away from civilisation, but must venture into it to find safety. Furthermore, many may embrace this as an opportunity to change their lot in life, to find mates in females who left behind the tribal way (or even from other races), or to simply experience new things.

I have little doubt that male Miqo'te NPCs will be uncommon, if not rare, let alone hostile mobs. This makes sense, as the vast majority of males would naturally become adventurers, learning the trades of the cities and looking for opportunities to find their place in an unfamiliar society.

Acistian · **05-18-2013, 04:01 AM**

(05-18-2013, 03:20 AM)Rhostel Wrote: The obvious reason why male Miqo'te, of either Clan, are now appearing is that Eorzea has just been through a disaster that's forced a change of lifestyle.

I expect much of the traditional tribal territories have been overrun with monsters or laid waste by either Bahamut or Dalamud. This means the males can no longer hide away from civilisation, but must venture into it to find safety. Furthermore, many may embrace this as an opportunity to change their lot in life, to find mates in females who left behind the tribal way (or even from other races), or to simply experience new things.

I have little doubt that male Miqo'te NPCs will be uncommon, if not rare, let alone hostile mobs. This makes sense, as the vast majority of males would naturally become adventurers, learning the trades of the cities and looking for opportunities to find their place in an unfamiliar society.

More easily understandable, thank you.

Uther · **05-18-2013, 06:06 AM**

(05-18-2013, 03:20 AM)Rhostel Wrote: The obvious reason why male Miqo'te, of either Clan, are now appearing is that Eorzea has just been through a disaster that's forced a change of lifestyle.

I expect much of the traditional tribal territories have been overrun with monsters or laid waste by either Bahamut or Dalamud. This means the males can no longer hide away from civilisation, but must venture into it to find safety. Furthermore, many may embrace this as an opportunity to change their lot in life, to find mates in females who left behind the tribal way (or even from other races), or to simply experience new things.

I have little doubt that male Miqo'te NPCs will be uncommon, if not rare, let alone hostile mobs. This makes sense, as the vast majority of males would naturally become adventurers, learning the trades of the cities and looking for opportunities to find their place in an unfamiliar society.

That's a better explanation than any SE could conjure up, imo.

Also, while we have this question thread up, I have another question:Â

How common are these "sentient dragons" in Ishgard? What I've read says that Ishgard's military is almost entirely made of Dragoons and they couldn't spare any to the Grand Companies because they needed them. That leads me to believe that dragons are a pretty real threat, but does it take one Dragoon to kill a dragon or is it like a month-long military excursion to battle one? And how often are they showing up to wreck everyone's day?

I'm working on a character to replace A'sili Abarskyf as my designated Disciple of War, and he was going to be of Ishgard origin, so if anyone could help that'd be appreciated.

allgivenover · **05-18-2013, 10:06 AM**

The reality or myth of race is a discussion ill suited for a message board focused on roleplaying in an MMORPG, so I'll pass on that. I do agree that the term 'race' as it's used in the common parlance is outright fictitious from a scientific point of view, however in this case I don't think Gildrein's usage of the word in the Miqo'te naming conventions post on the official lore forum is considering any scientific quantification of the term. Here, Gildrein is using the term 'race' to identify Keepers and Seekers as distinctly different cultural groups. In my earlier post I was using the word 'race' as it's commonly applied so that I would be clearly understood.

Refer to the link hereÂ http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threa...onventionsÂ the details about males being born less are found under the 'Keeper of the Moon' header. Again, I will quote the source directly:

Quote:Though there are ten suffixes listed above, rarely do even the largest Keeper of the Moon families have more than two or three sons. This is not by choice. Nature merely sees to it that more females are born to this race.

If the intention of the word race is meant to be used here to apply to all Miqo'te and not only Keeper of the Moon Miqo'te then Gildrein is doing a very poor job of presenting it.

Going beyond that, if male Seekers are also as uncommonly born as male Keepers, then why would the Nuhn/Tia dynamic develop in their culture? It seems to me that in order for that competition to be necessary, Seeker males would have to be more common.

It's possible that I'm wrong on this, but given how it's presented and what little information we have I see no reason to believe that Seeker males are as uncommon as Keeper males unless more lore is revealed that directly contradicts what we have so far. In fact I've been waiting before posting any concrete background information about my own characters for this very reason.

Aysun · **05-18-2013, 11:25 AM**

It's really simple. You could just ask the dev to clarify, really, if it bothers you that much that he put it beneath the Keeper of the Moon header. (I recommend this.)

The word race in XIV, as Rhostel pointed out, does not have the same meaning as it does to us IRL. Races IRL are like XIV's clan system, more than anything.

But this is how it works in XIV:

RACE: main distinguishing features
CLAN: smaller distinguishing features, difference in cultural norms

Ex:
RACE: Miqo'te
CLAN: Keeper of the Moon / Seeker of the Sun

RACE: Hyur
CLAN: Midlander / Highlander

RACE: Lalafell
CLAN: Plainsfolk / Dunesfolk

RACE: Elezen
CLAN: Duskwight / Wildwood

RACE: Roegadyn
CLAN: Sea Wolves / Hellsguard

The dev said "race," therefore it applies to both clans of the Miqo'te race. It is also supported by an NPC in 1.0 who when talking about Miqo'te said that the males were a rare sight, making it hard to study them. It makes plenty of sense too, that males would be rare in both clans, as Rhostel explained.

If the dev meant to say clan, and changes it to that, great, Seekers will have more. But until then or we see different explanation in ARR, it is silly to keep debating over one clan having more males than another based on the possibility of a typo, isn't it? The fact that we're going to have more males than SE's distribution of the races/clans/genders in the player character community in general still remains and needs to be accepted by RPers as just how it is. Miqo'te in general are not supposed to make up much of the population of Eorzea, but every other RPer you run into will be a Miqo'te.

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