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Seriphyn · **09-09-2014, 03:02 AM**

Hi all,

Feeling in a bit of a constructively critical mood at the moment. A lot of you may remember me as founder and leader of the Flame Yataghans from about October 2013 to March 2014. Upon its founding, YATAG was defined by being very NPC adherent, to the point that we would wear the uniforms in accordance with rank and class. Contrary to popular belief, this was not just the overcoats, but the field gear you see NPCs wear on the field. This was to add authenticity and validity to the roleplay, but not necessarily authority. The Immortal Flames are not law enforcement after all!

The following are my thoughts on how people have roleplayed Grand Company material as my FFXIV career has taken me beyond YATAG (esp. as the military has become a RL thing for me now), but suffice to say a lot of these observations applied during and before YATAG, too. It has to be stressed that these are my own opinions and there are not seeking to proscribe anything. After all, each Grand Company has an 'adventurer unit' that all PCs are assumed to be in by default (RP aside), those being the Immortal Flames Free Brigade, the Order of the Twin Adder Yellow Serpents, and the Maelstrom Foreign Levy.

The below targets those that I assume are not 'adventurer' volunteers but are trying to roleplay a full-time soldier.

Everybody is Second Lieutenant

This is a big one I see. The logic is benign; the game lets me go up to 2nd Lt, so I suppose I should RP 2nd Lt. Since the game has a linear progression in rank (rather than rank-and-file vs officer being two separate tracks), it feels like it has more authority than it actually does. If we assume these Grand Companies follow their design as a modern military that far (modern insofar 18th-19th century in terms of organization), a Chief Sergeant is going to have more experience and respect than a 2nd Lieutenant. Hell, unless the 2nd Lieutenant came up from the rank-and-file (and they don't have to be the highest sergeant rank to do this), they'll basically be a new recruit. But because the game promotes you through these ranks, it can easily make one think "I'm a big deal".

Why is this even an issue? No hierarchy, and hierarchy is central to any military! If we're all second lieutenants, who the hells in charge? Secondly, you could all technically be fresh recruits! Thirdly, no sense of progression simultaneous to an increase in experience! Why not actually -start- as a private IC (ignore your in-game rank) and RP up through the ranks, only doing so via IC achievements? Fourthly, no station with the rank. You're a junior officer. Who are you in charge of? Staff officer? Who are you assistant to? What do you actually do? Most of the 2nd Lt characters I've come across don't have answers to these questions, again, because of the benign logic of "it's what the game says I am". If you RP'd a private, on the other hand, all you have to do is say 'I stand watch at aetherytes'.

Fifthly, no bearing. This relates to the points down below, but few (not all) don't seem to RP the weight of the rank. You're an officer in a Grand Company; you are held to a higher standard than all the rank-and-file beneath you. In fact, the game uses the term 'commissioned'...that's going to be a commission from the Chief Admiral, the Sultana, or the Elder Seedseer respectively. You represent them. This is unique to officers over soldiers.

The list goes on, but in short, one doesn't HAVE to RP the rank the game tells you you're at, and it might be rewarding! See what happens when a character is disciplined or ordered around by a character of higher rank! The player doesn't like having their character ordered around? They probably shouldn't be roleplaying in a military organization in the first place...

Uniform? What uniform?

Square Enix are meticulous about designing their NPCs and making it very clear who this NPC is and what they are supposed to do. Every tier of Grand Company NPC in the field are dressed according to their rank; private, sergeant, lieutenant/captain, and commander. The private and sergeant NPC sets are available on the GC store. For Immortal Flames, look at the Northern Thanalan settlements for the full array of outfits and weaponry.

Outside of the overcoats, I have yet to see any professed GC RPer try this out, bar YATAG and one other solo RPer. Of course, if one roleplays an officer (which is statistically likely), you're SOL finding the officer field uniform. Nonetheless, I found it gratifying standing around next to an identical-looking sergeant NPC. Yeah, I was the real deal alright! Ha!

Why is this even an issue? Well, why do soldiers wear uniforms IRL? It shows you are part of this organization and the real deal. When I had Kale as a sergeant, I left all sorts of cool RP outfits rotting with a retainer because it's just not his uniform. He is a soldier. Individual expression is left to civilians. As a soldier you will dress the same to show you are not an individual, but part of a team, and equal to your comrades. Want a terrible example of an army's uniformity? TERA's Valkyon Federation; one Tribune is wearing bikiniplate, while another is dressed up for a ballroom dance. No; SE designed those NPCs with a specific vision in mind, and I feel I've outlined it here.

Weekend Warriors

An Eorzean Grand Company is an army, and being in the army is a career. Very few seem to roleplay their Grand Company association with the weight that it ought to carry; in fact, it seems to be a loose commitment (which again is fine if your character is part of an adventurer unit). The most egregious example I've seen of this 'weekend warrior' thing is during conflict RP where someone needs to assert authority over another. They will mention their rank in the local Grand Company (second lieutenant to nobody's surprise, ha!) and will claim entitlement and authority because of it.

And then you never hear of their GC involvement ever again. Keep in mind that's an egregious example I've seen a couple of times, but not often. When I was RPing Grand Company, I was in only two states...

On-duty: Uniform as appropriate (Flame Sergeant's Shirt/Sarouel/Crakows set, with Ul'dahn Hoplon/Winglet), stationed at one of the many Immortal Flames in the Thanalan region. The Flames were lucky in this regard, as out of all the Grand Companies, they have the most outposts. This meant I hardly ever roleplayed outside of Thanalan, but why would I? I'm trying to roleplay a full-time soldier of a Grand Company. He has no reason to be outside Thanalan! Limiting, yes, but that's the price for authenticity, if y'like. Just like being a military member IRL comes with a whole lot of restrictions with what you can do even off-duty.

Off-duty: Something unassuming; an average soldier isn't going to be wearing anything amazing. Quicksand, Coffer and Coffin, some other tavern-esque location in Thanalan. Again, hardly ever seen in the Shroud or La Noscea. Unless there was some server event, where Kale would spend a month's pay to go visit!
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Why is this even an issue? Because how might my character even expect to believe you're a legitimate Grand Company soldier if my character never sees your character do anything related to the GC? Mine was 90% in uniform all the time standing around other NPCs, or spearheading missions and events that would pertain to Ul'dahn military business, and ignore official business RP that would not have anything to do with the Immortal Flames. Yes, that meant missing out on awesome plots in, say, Limsa Lominsa, because why would an average Flame be out there in the first place? That's the Maelstrom's job!

Special Commando

Perhaps the most obvious example of my personal taste in RP coming through is with this one. A justification for the above 'Weekend Warrior' is that one's character is part of some special unit within the Grand Company ([playful jab] this giving them an excuse to sit in the Quicksand all day [/playful jab]). I feel this is more an effort to remove one's character from the system of accountability that militaries have. "Have your cake and eat it too". I mean, sure, it's fine I suppose. Personally, I'd like to see more average soldiers in the RP mix, who would suffer IC consequences for getting involved in other players' RP plots. Of the Disciples of War characters that I have seen, Average Joe types are almost non-existent. Again, personal taste, but most of this really is to begin with!

Why is this even an issue? Mm, well, the Grand Company can't have that many special commandos, can it? Heh...

CONCLUSION

In the end, people are gonna roleplay whatever the hell they want, and that's cool, because no one's telling us we have to RP with anyone we don't want to. As such, the above is merely suggestions and thoughts from someone who really gives a shit about this stuff. Most of us have better things to do, and just want to let our hair down, pick a cool RP outfit, and play pretend! What's with all this unfun stuff, eh?!

Thanks for reading if you made it down here! Despite being the length of a freshman college essay, this is all effectively stream of consciousness. Apologies for poor grammar, syntax, and wording. I have time to talk about all this nonsense; no time to proofread it Tongue

LiadansWhisper · **09-09-2014, 03:29 AM**

My character doesn't wear the Gridanian uniform most of the time because I consider the Grand Company to be something of a "reserve corps" for adventurers/those who have other occupations. Â If/when she's called up, she'll wear the uniform, but otherwise she's busy with other things and would not wear the uniform because she's not on duty.

Edda · **09-09-2014, 03:47 AM**

And this is why I keep Edda out of all this Grand Company hullabaloo, not like any organization with a grain of self-respect would allow such a useless person to join their ranks. Not only would I feel obligated to make her wear the uniform, but I feel like she'd just automatically be stuck in some nondescript "No Fun Allowed" club. By herself. I can't speak for everyone though, but I like to imagine people don't let themselves be confined by it because it simply feels too restricting in how far you can go in the world, and for how long. Ul'dah is literally "Big Dick Swingin' The City" The Movie: The Game so I doubt those players would have as much issue, but Twin Adders might not be so lucky (if they want to follow lore as strictly as possible, anyway).

Of course, if you have enough organization and enough people I think it could be really cool. Like the Sultansworn (though not GC related) seems to be a popular angle, and from what little I've seen of it it works out really well for them. I for one would love to see some Yellowjackets running around Limsa, but I'm afraid the color yellow doesn't inspire the same level of devotion in RPers as does blue, silver and gold.

Now, those are the reasons I don't commit to any type of GC RP. However, should YoshiP deign to release those outfits the OIC Administrators wear as hunt rewards, I'M THERE. I would gladly spend hours doing the most mindless, soul-draining activity ever conceived in an MMO for the chance to wear those sinfully sexy outfits. Seriously, have you looked at those things?

Berrod Armstrong · **09-09-2014, 06:57 AM**

I portray minimal Grand Company involvement with Berrod simply due to the nature of his character-- though he does have a connection to the Maelstrom, of all things (he was caught committing a crime, and managed to bargain his freedom by means of offering occasional service to them for a time. That arc has long since been concluded, however).

If I DID play a Grand Company ground stomper I'd likely go for a private, since the grunt side of things is just so much more interesting to me. As it stands, Berrod remains a non enlisted thug.Â

While I agree that people should roleplay what they want, I'd endorse the above guidelines -- one may find them more enriching to one's roleplay than one may think.

TheLastCandle · **09-09-2014, 08:36 AM**

I do roleplay Yvelont's association with the Yellow Serpents, but I see his role as a foreigner and an "adventurer" very differently. My view is more along the lines of Liadan's: the adventurers that help make up the bulk of Yellow Serpents, Foreign Levy, et al are more akin to organized militia, with commissioned officers in charge of them, and perhaps a number of contracted specialists. Yvelont would be one of the latter.

He does hold the rank of Serpent Sergeant, but tends to act alone or with other adventurers he trusts, who may or may not be Serpents themselves - so frankly, the question of "who is in charge" has yet to come up. If it did, though, I don't think it would be an issue. Because frankly, though he would take charge of the situation as needed, I as a player would much rather play out the sharing of ideas and collaborating to execute them than bark out orders. Perhaps that's just Yve's "neutral/chaotic good" outlook bleeding through to the player. Smile

Edit: Aaaaand I just saw your disclaimer about everything stated above not applying to the adventurer units. Knew I should've had more than one cup of coffee this morning. We are on the same page here!

Flickering Ember · **09-09-2014, 08:38 AM**

I can see how this stuff would be problematic, especially when you are required to join a grand company to progress in the game. I happily avoid it though since my character is a free spirit and would never join something so rigid and strict as a military organization. Though, I also OOC-wise just don't like the grand companies. I don't find any of them interesting and view them as just a means to an end to get to certain content. If I ever get around to making alts, I won't be RPing them as being a part of grand companies either.Â

I do like that there are folks around who are seriously into RPing them, though, such as your FC. I may not like them but another player's passion towards RPing them can help bring the world to life.

Honestly though, I haven't seen too many RPers roleplay their character as having anything but a minor association with their grand company.

Aldotsk · **09-09-2014, 09:24 AM**

I don't disagree with Kale regarding to everyone claiming 2nd Lt because the game gives them the option to do so. But I think it's possible for sergeants or regular officers not officially Lt can wear bucket head and thick jacket?Â

Honestly... they actually look more like a police officer outfit than a high ranked military officer outfit.

But I find that it'd be rather interesting to play as Sergeant and Private too. Privates can be pretty bad ass.

FreelanceWizard · **09-09-2014, 10:33 AM**

I feel like I ought to echo the OP in noting that adventurers that are part of a GC are, by default, part of the "adventurers' brigade" of that GC, and the game seems to frame that as basically being a free agent and resource for the GC -- someone who can take on sensitive missions and might be drafted in the event of dire need. If you have a rank, it's largely ceremonial, since you're really outside of the normal command structure. Your superior officer in that group is more like a handler, a contact, and a case officer than your commander. Really, I view it as the same sort of situation as the heroes of Star Wars have with regards to the Rebel Alliance. Sure, Luke has a rank, but he's largely an operative who acts on his own, doing things that need doing. When the Rebels need his assistance, they can reach out to him, but they're not giving orders so much as making requests to someone who typically shares the same goals. On the other hand, it's not like Luke can really give orders and expect them to be followed solely due to his rank (he's a special case since he's also famous and well-regarded).

That said, I agree with the OP 100% that those who RP being regulars of a Grand Company should pay attention to how militaries actually work and make an effort to portray such a character correctly. I personally think this is especially important given the "out" SE has provided for everyone in the "adventurers' brigades;" since you're making an active choice to RP something different and more restrictive, you should, IMO, put in the effort to make it different and more restrictive so that it feels more real. Step up to the challenge of the concept! Smile

Berrod Armstrong · **09-09-2014, 10:38 AM**

(09-09-2014, 10:33 AM)FreelanceWizard Wrote: Â Step up to the challenge of the concept!

This. This, this, this, this! It applies to so much MORE than Â just roleplaying within the Grand Companies!

Sounsyy · **09-09-2014, 10:47 AM**

(09-09-2014, 03:02 AM)Seriphyn Wrote: The list goes on, but in short, one doesn't HAVE to RP the rank the game tells you you're at, and it might be rewarding! See what happens when a character is disciplined or ordered around by a character of higher rank! The player doesn't like having their character ordered around? They probably shouldn't be roleplaying in a military organization in the first place...

I agree with pretty much all your points, especially this. I had really hoped that new and higher ranks would become available to us at 2.3, but sadly no. (If you right click on your rank insignia in Profile Menu, it'll actually show you all the available Foreign Brigade ranks available to the player. In-case someone in here didn't already know.) So my main character was a Storm Captain before she went MIA in the Calamity. The rank isn't yet available but I play it anyways. And Saehri, my other character, while the game forces her OOCly to join a GC, she has no IC military inclinations. Nor will she ever. I like playing it this way.

For me it's fun to balance the responsibilities of being a Storm Captain versus having none with my other character. I report to an NPC Commander, and wear a made-up version of what I think a Storm Captain would look like. (Storm Elite Bicorne, Lieutenant Coat, mix and match of Elite and Lieutenant mostly.) Sadly, there are no Storm Captains represented in game. Pirate Captains aplenty, but no Storm Captains...

I will say, what sucks most about playing as a Maelstrom is that outside of the Coat Uniform (which I've always viewed as a more formal uniform dress as opposed to what one would wear in combat/fieldwork) Maelstrom don't get much representation in the field. Almost all of the Barricuda we see out in La Noscea are all Yellowjackets. (aka 1st Squadron) If you belong to 3rd or 5th Squadron for example, you don't have any in-game representation of what your character should dress like for fieldwork.

Pumpkinweed · **09-09-2014, 10:52 AM**

I read so many positive things and I agree with most of the varying ideas. Outstanding...!

For me, it's been very difficult to find the proper FC due to Gus's focus on what he does. I always wondered whether Gus might crack somewhere down the line and enroll in the military but figured it would be too far out of his spectrum. Thus, furthering his aether knowledge seemed like a better idea.

The point is, if you're going to role-play something of the sort, you will find the greatest character development is when things are out of your hand. It is humbling to play someone at the lowest end of the stick so that when your character does reach that Second Lt. rank, it feels well earned.

I know a few characters who have made military decisions strictly for IC reasons and I absolutely respect their commitment to the ideal.

Perhaps here, in this particular forum, lies the strength to make a completely new FC dedicated to our ideology. Might be interesting to see it held to such standards by talented players. Just a thought!

Aduu Avagnar · **09-09-2014, 11:14 AM**

I thought I would take a moment to reply to this, given that I am a member of Yatag, and each and every one of those comments does or has applied to Nako in the past, for the duration of his association and membership with the group.

Everybody is Second Lieutenant:
I never played Nako as a 2nd Lt because it was the highest I could go, instead, going with Nako's backstory and the organisation he was a part of, it was initially an 'equivalent rank' that he was able to call upon to requisition support from the hall when it was needed. At that same mark, he had no direct authority over anyone, and if he was assigned to help out in any manner, he followed the Chain of Command of that group.

Uniform? What uniform?:
Nako was primarily an inteligence operative. Now, I don't know about you, but being behind enemy lines, wearing the uniform of the organisation you work for, sounds like a bad idea to me. And again, he was not a member of the Flames directly, so it would be disrespectful of him to wear their uniform. However, after joining the unit, he wore the uniform when he was on duty, and it was required of him.

Weekend Warriors:
I would like to think that this is the one part of it that doesn't apply to Nako. My RP has kept me pretty firmly within Thanalan, beyond the occasional forray into the other areas, but they were always a rarity. And the majority of my RP has been related, in some way back to his membership/relationship with the flames, dependant on which part of his arc we are refering to.

Special Commando:
Perhaps probably the most pointed thing here, Nako being a member of a special organisation, but at the same time, there was no shirking of accountability, if he did something, and got involved in something with consequences, then damn I'll take it. I personally feel that if there is no risk of consequence then there is little point in doing it beyond a filler activity. and your point regarding the number of special commandos, i guess the thing to take into account is that the PC's are in fact the minority within the game.

Coatleque · **09-09-2014, 11:18 AM**

I also agree with the very well stated OP. There is not much more I could add.

Coatleque is not affiliated with any Grand Company. As a Sultansworn she will cooperate with the Flames as required by politics, and even in that situation she would be considered a private - following rank rather than pulling it.

Zyrusticae · **09-09-2014, 11:43 AM**

So I have to ask, since this has kind of been glossed over in this thread:

Just what does the rank actually mean in regards to the adventurer units? If it doesn't really have any correlation with your level of authority (and why would it? It's not like you're ever actually out in the field doling out orders in a fire team), what does it actually mean for someone in the Foreign Levy/Free Brigade/Yellow Serpents to be a Second Lieutenant?

Is it just prestige? Incentivization to go out and do things? Are the weapons I have (Serpent Elite, from the Hunts, but pretty obviously intended for a higher GC rank) things that I could actually have IC?

I need to knoooow!

Kage · **09-09-2014, 11:51 AM**

Personally I think the higher ranks just mean that the adventurer in the respective adventurer enlistment campaigns are just for the adventurer to essentially gain the same perks etc as those of that rank.

I mean, the adventurer is not going to be able to help lead attack a Garlean stronghold as a Private.

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My observations/thoughts about Grand Company RP (1500+ words warning)

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes