Defining RP - Printable Version +- Hydaelyn Role-Players (https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/mybb18) +-- Forum: Community (https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/mybb18/forumdisplay.php?fid=8) +--- Forum: RP Discussion (https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/mybb18/forumdisplay.php?fid=13) +--- Thread: Defining RP (/showthread.php?tid=74) |
Defining RP - Kylin - 03-22-2010 This is our second formal discussion. That means it will eventually be voted on and if passed, will be placed in our etiquette section on the main site under “What is roleplay?â€Â. I was hoping someone else would start the next formal discussion before me but I think some people might have been confused on how it works. We’ll discuss it amongst each other for awhile and then a proposal (2-3 paragraphs in this case probably) will eventually be drafted, examined, and then voted on. The RPC’s official definition for RP will need to be broad enough to include the casual roleplayers while still encompassing the hardcore. Here are some elements to examine in the discussions: 1. What constitutes RP? Is it our actions, behavior, or something else? On that same note, what -isn’t- RP? Many of us have seen non-roleplayers label something as RP that most of us would disagree with (such as the people in FFXI who emoted silly stuff by the auction houses). Does simply emoting something random constitute real RP? Or is actual substance required? 2. How do we define “in character†(IC)? What is “out of character†(OOC)? When do the two intertwine and where is the line drawn? If necessary, there may be an entirely different section devoted to IC/OOC but at least a basic understanding is necessary for defining RP. 3. What’s the difference between hardcore, casual, and freelance RP? And even for the hardcore, is there a proper time and place to NOT RP? 4. How does one’s environment and surroundings fit into RP? That should get you guys started ^^. On that same note, I was thinking that we could also possibly create a checklist for new Rpers just starting out, though I’m unsure whether we should include that in this discussion/vote or make it something separate completely. Re: Defining RP - Eva - 03-22-2010 Merriam-Webster defines roleplay as: Merriam-Webster Wrote:Main Entry: role–play This is a bit broad for our scope, but I think it makes a good starting point for this discussion. Re: Defining RP - Nomine - 03-22-2010 I dunno Kes, that's pretty good! I know it's a bit broad but does RP necessarily need to be narrowed down and classified that much? I freely admit that I'm pretty loose with my line of thinking and my desire for structure is more directed in a lore-directive and if anything a guild oriented setting. As far as specifically designated what RP is and isn't exactly seems dependant on the subject matter and the one doing the classification. From what I've seen haterz be hatin yo, no matter what may be decided and some people have certain images in their mind regarding RP that they won't get out of their head until they decide to. I know this may not be exactly the format that we're looking for but here's my thoughts... ERP: While not something I particularly endorse or actively seek or really enjoy being privy to, I believe with structure it can serve a purpose. I certainly think that it's a dicey enough topic that it should be done in privacy but I certainly don't condemn it. If that's the particular role that someone has a passion for, so be it. Alot of people get the wrong impression about the RP community as a whole with this sort of thing but that sort of generalization indicates a lack of interest in the first place and I think it's certainly not quite as broad a view as it used to be a while back. The Random emote shenannigans: For me it's way too difficult to decypher if someone is legitimately poking fun or actually attempting to get into RP, albeit a bit awkwardly, or if they're just being lazy and goofing around. Either or I know it doesn't bother me personally unless it becomes disruptive to what I'm doing. Going back to the first part of this, when I RP'd in WoW there was a guy who came up doing this sort of thing and the two friends I was RPing with were quick to bash in party chat or even say some harsh words in /say. My philosophy (for the most part) is the kill 'em with kindness approach so I did, I treated him like a legitimate character and he actually wound up apologizing and saying he wasn't used to this sort of thing and.....tried to...pay me off....>.> Weither or not he genuinely wanted to RP or he was influenced by my behavior and felt guilty for any sort of disruptive behavior, I'd say it was win win all around! Defining IC/OOC: This I would actually love a unified designation for. I know I've seen people using (( )) or using * * or what have you but in regards to specific chat, I'd love a general concensus just for clarity. As far as differentiating between player and character, I think making it clear that crossin the IC/OOC line is a huge no no. Which I know for me is very difficult to do just because if I don't enjoy the player's personality I typically don't enjoy rping with them, but I'm workin on it! Differenciating between different types of RPers: This one I'm not exactly sure how to answer. I've seen pretty varied responses depending on the individual doing the grading at the time. I don't consider myself hardcore, but others have. I prefer party chat to be OOC unless otherwise specified for the sake of group coordination if we're doing an instance or dungeon whatever the nomenclature may be. Other folks are never OOC ever.....which....I think is pretty freaking hardcore, but for me would hinder my ability to socialize and enjoy the game as a player and an rper. Environment: I've been experiencing quite a few different styles here lately and it seems like my RP experience is a little bit lacking since I don't have the time spent with FFXI as a great deal of you folks do ;D but I know for me I prefer that character created locations, like a base or something like that be handled in channel rp or guild chat. It's only recently that I've come to that preference as normally I prefer face to face than anything, but there seems to be alot of variables that can interrupt an RP that legitimately might have been private or less likely to have disruption, but then again it's all for personal preference! Some of the best RPs I've had have been at our "Secret Base" face to face in game at some random awesome looking ruins for the background. In the end I do prefer face to face just because it helps put imagery with my imagination, so scenery and setting certainly play a big role for me. Did I get off topic? Was that a tangent or not what ya'll are looking for? >.> either way I apologize! Re: Defining RP - Guest - 03-22-2010 It might be best to leave defining what is and what isn't RP to the individual guilds and event organizers. If some people think "/em punts <taru>" is roleplaying, who are we to say otherwise? Even if other members disagree and don't consider it to be 'real' roleplaying, they can just choose not to go to that guild's events. For a system like that to be able to function though, we do need to at least define what casual, hardcore, and the spectrum of other sorts of RP between the two are. I've seen screenshots of a plugin for WoW that allows you to write and display a sort of mini bio page when people examine you. At the top, people put things like <Casual Roleplayer>, <Fulltime Roleplayer>, <In Character>, etc. Maybe add something like that to character sheets, or, if you can, add them to member profiles, so that they would be displayed along with post count? The same system could be used for events. As for how to actually define what <Casual> or <Fulltime> are, I'm not too sure. The only thing I can think of is something like a scale of how much OOC talk a person is willing to tolerate and engage in. Fulltime might only only accept OOC talk in /p or /t, and never go OOC in /sh, /t, or /ls, while casual might be fine with OOC talk whenever they aren't RPing with another roleplayer. That's just a rough idea though, and definitely needs more work. Re: Defining RP - Kylin - 03-22-2010 Quote:It might be best to leave defining what is and what isn't RP to the individual guilds and event organizers. If some people think "/em punts <taru>" is roleplaying, who are we to say otherwise? Even if other members disagree and don't consider it to be 'real' roleplaying, they can just choose not to go to that guild's events. Using this argument, we might as well take down the entire etiquette section then . In fact, there wouldn't even be a need for the Assembly Room either. It should be noted that our definition isn't "law binding" or anything like that. This, and all other etiquette, is meant to be a guide and nothing more. If individual guilds or freelancers wish to stray completely from the mold, that's their choice. They may have difficulties getting into any heavy RP by straying too far from the norm, but it will ultimately be their choice either way. Re: Defining RP - Smiling River - 03-22-2010 Quote:Using this argument, we might as well take down the entire etiquette section then . In fact, there wouldn't even be a need for the Assembly Room either. It should be noted that our definition isn't "law binding" or anything like that. This, and all other etiquette, is meant to be a guide and nothing more. If individual guilds or freelancers wish to stray completely from the mold, that's their choice. They may have difficulties getting into any heavy RP by straying too far from the norm, but it will ultimately be their choice either way. Agreed. Quote:As for how to actually define what <Casual> or <Fulltime> are, I'm not too sure. The only thing I can think of is something like a scale of how much OOC talk a person is willing to tolerate and engage in. Fulltime might only only accept OOC talk in /p or /t, and never go OOC in /sh, /t, or /ls, while casual might be fine with OOC talk whenever they aren't RPing with another roleplayer. That's just a rough idea though, and definitely needs more work. Actually I think of it like this: in private chat, you can be as IC or OOC as you like. You can be a hardcore RP'er even if you are OOC when you're doing a mission or fighting a boss (in /party chat). If most of your discussions are OOC however, then you are a casual RPer. Quote:Defining IC/OOC: This I would actually love a unified designation for. I know I've seen people using (( )) or using * * or what have you but in regards to specific chat, I'd love a general concensus just for clarity. As far as differentiating between player and character, I think making it clear that crossin the IC/OOC line is a huge no no. Which I know for me is very difficult to do just because if I don't enjoy the player's personality I typically don't enjoy rping with them, but I'm workin on it! Technical in-game OOC should be the same across the board. I think on this all of us can agree. (( )) dictates OOC. Okay? Now for less technical meta-gaming aspect of OOC: personally I don't want to know secrets about one's character OOC'ly and not IC because that creates some tension for me as an RP'er. It adds a possibility of meta-gaming, even in a slightest way. When I RP I tend not to reveal things about my character OOC'ly either. There should also be a distinction made either in the definition or just in our mind as we think about this, between the theoretical definition of RP and how it is in practice. For example you can say that you will RP 100% of the time. This actually will limit your RP in the game because you wont be able to talk OOCly with people about their stories and plot lines, plan specific events, etc.. It'd also make it very difficult for others to do missions/quests/fight bosses with you where it's almost required to go OOC to quickly communicate. Re: Defining RP - Guest - 03-22-2010 Castiel Wrote:Using this argument, we might as well take down the entire etiquette section then . In fact, there wouldn't even be a need for the Assembly Room either. It should be noted that our definition isn't "law binding" or anything like that. This, and all other etiquette, is meant to be a guide and nothing more. If individual guilds or freelancers wish to stray completely from the mold, that's their choice. They may have difficulties getting into any heavy RP by straying too far from the norm, but it will ultimately be their choice either way. Aah, my mistake. I wasn't aware that this was just going to be an informal suggestion and not an actual rule. Never mind then. Mason Wrote:Actually I think of it like this: in private chat, you can be as IC or OOC as you like. You can be a hardcore RP'er even if you are OOC when you're doing a mission or fighting a boss (in /party chat). If most of your discussions are OOC however, then you are a casual RPer. Yeah, I was just using that as an example of possible definitions. It would be practically impossible to really play an MMO 100% IC, lol. Mason Wrote:Technical in-game OOC should be the same across the board. I think on this all of us can agree. (( )) dictates OOC. Okay? I think what he was referring to was the fact that some people use alternate characters to show that what they're saying is OOC. I've met people who use [], {}, ::, **, etc. I could see how it might get kind of confusing, since most people use double astarisks for emotes and actions, but I personally never had any problem telling whether a person was narrating an action or speaking OOCly, regardless of the punctuation. As far as what constitutes RP, it's a bit tough to say. To be honest, I'm fine with the dictionary definition Kes gave. It's a bit broad, but it really does make sense. Roleplaying is just that, playing a role. We could break it down and categorize the different types of roleplay and roleplayers, but if I'm not mistaken, that's not what this thread is about. Re: Defining RP - Eltharian - 03-22-2010 On defining what roleplaying is, I was thinking it could start out as a broad definition, like what Kes posted above. Then it could get into what it is to roleplay in an mmorpg, to narrow the definition down a bit. I think this would be good for people new to the idea of RP who would read it. Re: Defining RP - Eva - 03-22-2010 Refraining from posting my opinions on the matter for a little while longer still. Here's some additional definitions: (pasted from <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roleplay">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roleplay</a><!-- m --> ) Quote:Role-playing refers to the changing of one's behavior to assume a role, either unconsciously to fill a social role, or consciously to act out an adopted role. While the Oxford English Dictionary defines roleplaying as "the changing of one's behavior to fulfill a social role", the term is used more loosely in three senses: Quote:A role-playing game is a game in which the participants assume the roles of characters and collaboratively create stories. Participants determine the actions of their characters based on their characterization, and the actions succeed or fail according to a formal system of rules and guidelines. Within the rules, they may improvise freely; their choices shape the direction and outcome of the games. and from: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massively_multi-player_online_role-playing_game">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massively_ ... aying_game</a><!-- m --> Quote:Roleplaying My own thoughts and view to come shortly. Busy day at work, but looking to slow down to a screeching halt very soon and I will have more time. Re: Defining RP - Jakky - 03-22-2010 My personal definition of Roleplay is; 'Making a conscious, consistent and considered effort to maintain a particular assumed character, through language and/or behaviour.' Being in-character is when you are doing this. By this logic, spontaneous 'just-for-fun' emotes (ie, /e slaps , /e purrs at ., etc) do not count as roleplay unless they are in keeping with the performance of a character/personality that is not inherent to the performer. What differentiates the 'grade' of roleplay is just how considered this role is. A 'casual' Roleplayer (majority of first-time/inexperienced RPers):
Re: Defining RP - Nomine - 03-22-2010 As far as when to engage in RP I think I usually go by the same guidelines as Jakky here. I'm a bit self-concious anyway of what folks think of my rp >.> so I'm a little shy regarding it. Just to make sure I get it right in my own addled brain, I keep feeling a bit apprehencious about adding more classification and organization to the subject, just at the risk of anyone new to RP feeling a bit overwhelmed by all the subcategories and classifications. Alright so! This is organized as more or less likea guideline of how things would most likely be experienced in game right? Just as an example text... "Some roleplayers identify themselves as casual, hardcore and freelance. In most instances, many of the casual role-players will operate in character in certain forms of communication (such as /say) but not in others (Such as /party). When speaking out of character it is widely recognized that a (( before and )) at the end of your statement is to be considered Out of Character or OOC." Is that the type of thing we're going for, or are we looking more along the lines of.... "To speak out of Character place (( before and )) after your line of text to indicate that it is the player, not the character speaking. If you remain in character at all times unless someone specifies for a response out of character, then you are considered a hardcore roleplayer." Just curious! I'm trying to bear in mind that whatever we come up with will need to remain just as inviting to new people as it is common-sense to us. Re: Defining RP - Eva - 03-22-2010 Throughout the day I've posted some explanations of RP as defined by various credible sources. It sort of evades the real question, which asks how do -we- define RP. My answer to this is as simple as it is complicated. Roleplay is, to me, a state of mind above all else. I don't feel it can really be qualified or quantified in any particular way. And, like art, it often means different things to different people. To some it is a way to escape life. To others, an extension of life, or possibly even a way to enhance some elements of their own persona. Some people enjoy RPing characters who are very similar to themselves. Others like to venture into unfamiliar territory and explore what it might be like if [insert conditional here]. When I RPed as Dyterium, I got to not only breathe life into a character, but I got to shape him and his course in a way I saw fit. He was in many ways similar to me, and in other ways an embellishment of my own persona, where he would say or do things that I would never have dared - but may have wanted to. I might even go so far as to suggest that the character that I created, in some ways, helped mold my own personality. While I don't feel the definition of RP is as important as the distinction between types, it is important to have some sort of a description for what we collectively do - even if it is as broad and all-encompassing as Merriam-Webster's. That distinction will probably reveal itself through the individual communities/guilds that crop up. Like-minded roleplayers are going to RP together in the manner in which they most prefer to do so. I personally have always favored either the (parentheses) or ((double parentheses)) to denote out-of-character speech. I've felt anything besides this a pithy attempt to gain attention or express nonconformity or whatever. I did use [brackets] to indicate tone when speaking. e.g. <Kes> [sarcastically] Oh, I was unaware of that. Also, I RPed in all channels - and used parentheses to denote I was being OOC in all channels as well - and by all channels I include /tell, mostly out of habit sometimes when it wasn't even necessary. The only times I really went out-of-character outside of parentheses were events such as pickup xp parties or groups where non-RPers were present. Mostly I did this out of respect because I learned pretty quickly that the general non-RPing population perceives our emotes and our behavior as a kind of "chat pollution." And I'll freely admit it... I didn't want to be 'that guy.' As a linkshell, we were probably more to the 'hardcore' end of the spectrum. We seldom went OOC unless something really significant was going on. A few of the events which spurned some OOC dialogue (which was still enclosed in parentheses) were the day that train was bombed in England a few years back, when one of our members graduated high school, the first job that dinged 75, etc. Easily 99.9% of [non-mistell] linkshell chat was in-character, and enforced as part of our rules. The rule should be dependant upon the guild, and generally would be to go with the consensus. A casual RP group might designate certain times for IC events and use the LS as an OOC chat medium. A more serious group might require that all OOC be left off of whatever FFXIV's equivalent of a linkshell channel will be. Really, like most of what we've been discussing here, it's all open to interpretation and very abstract and subjective. Re: Defining RP - Aveline - 03-22-2010 I want to begin by saying, I definitely think it should be left up to individual guilds to define what roleplaying is to their group. I think that's one of the reasons why we have a coalition of groups to begin with--not everyone has the same play style as others. But that being said, I also agree that it would be good to have a general definition posted to give newcomers a broad idea of what they can expect from roleplaying linkshells. I actually plan on putting up a similar document on TALE's website once our founding members can get together and hash out what roleplaying will be defined as in our guild. So to me, roleplaying is stepping outside of your own self and acting out the persona of a created character, like acting in a freeform play. I generally tend to play AS my character when I'm roleplaying, and I try to stay true to how I think she would feel about certain situations or people. Would she react spontaneously, or in a calculated manner? Would she try to make small talk to get to know the new guy, or would she coolly watch to see him prove his worth by his actions? I think what ?isn't roleplay is, as said by others, entirely subjective. Much like art. Personally, if the whole point of roleplaying in an MMO is to further immerse oneself in the game, then I don't see why /em punts taru couldn't be roleplaying. It might be disruptive to those of us with stories that we're trying to enact, but to others, it's all part of the game. As far as in character and out... If I'm rolling my R's and acting as my character, then I'm in character. If I'm using a "regular" voice and talking about things that are happening outside of the game, or talking about the game in terms of MMO mechanics, I'm out of character. Usually I stick with (_____) or ((______)), but when I first started RPing in FFXI, it was common in our linkshell to use OOC:__________, and sometimes still do that out of habit. I've seen others use asterisks, brackets, or #_______________ to signify being out of character, and I think that as long as it's clear to others what those symbols mean, then it's fine. Typing styles tend to make different keys easier to knock out, so if it's faster/easier for someone to type [ooc comment here] than (ooc comment here), well good on them. Sometimes, in RP linkshells of yore, I noticed a trend towards slowly blending out of character dialogue into in character dialogue. This almost always happened when there were only a few people logged into the shell, and it usually was not a problem, since the people in the conversation all willingly were interested in pursuing the OOC conversation, and at that point it was easier to stop using OOC tags than otherwise. As soon as others logged in and started talking in character, the conversation switched back to OOC tags, or stopped completely if people picked up the in-character dialogue. As a note to this though, I want to stress that this was if a group of people were interested in the topic. If it was two people and they kept up the conversation in OOC tags, I'd usually ask them to take their talk to /tells and clear up linkshell chat for roleplaying. I think 'freelance' has more to do with linkshell/guild affiliation than anything else.. I may be wrong in this assumption though. Casual roleplayers, or those that have identified as being casual roleplayers, tended to be more the ones who maybe had a rough idea in their heads of their in-game persona, but weren't interested in any epic-length story arcs. They usually had another non-roleplaying linkshell, and tended just to pop in to the RP linkshell from time to time for flavor text. Hardcore would be the opposite? LOL. And yeah for me... there were definitely times not to roleplay. The people I roleplayed with on Asura tended to keep RP chat to the linkshell and to private RP party chat. If it was an XP group, we generally talked through the linkshell to RP. Sometimes if we had a big enough group, we would roleplay freely in /say and let passerby enjoy the theatrics. :pirat: Not really sure what you mean by #4 but I'm going to go with... environment and settings have everything to do with roleplay? If I'm standing in Yhoator Jungle, I'm going to react a little differently than if I'm up in Xarcabard. Maybe if I'm in the latter I'll occasionally shiver, or I'll throw on a hooded robe for effect. Maybe I'll whip out a cup of coffee to keep warm with. A lot of the time, we (Asuran roleplayers) would take note of the environment. The weather, the day of the week, the city/region, to work in to fictions we wrote later regarding the RP session. It would flesh out the story more, and often painted a more vivid picture of the world. Re: Defining RP - River - 03-22-2010 For the most part, I agree and abide by everything that Jakky expressed. I couldn't have said it better myself. Now, on the issue of IC vs. OOC. Several things.
Re: Defining RP - Guest - 03-22-2010 Alright, here are my opinions on this topic. I'm drawing ideas from the MMO's I've played extensively (only FFXI), and from tabletop RPGs that I've played for years (DnD and Shadowrun). 1. What Constitutes RP?
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