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+--- Thread: Lore Reasons:White Mage? (/showthread.php?tid=10545)
RE: Lore Reasons:White Mage? - Sounsyy - 03-17-2015
It's a pretty interesting conundrum.
Cuz see, before the Calamity, Conjurers weren't primarily a healer. Yes, they had lots of Cure spells, but they had way more elemental spells of varying powers. Things like Flare, Quake, Tornado. Also some really powerful DoTs with some rather violent names: Choke, Drown, etc, which did a DoT + a status effect + weakened the enemy to that elemental type, making the high level magicks like Freeze even more powerful.
Meanwhile in Thanalan, Thaumaturges had their Astral and Umbral magic shifting but could also heal, raise, regen, etc using their own life force. However, the interesting thing to note on this was that when a Thaumaturge cured, they suffered an HP and an MP cost for the spell. Which tied in very well for THMs using their own lifeforce to cast in lore. So it was essentially what I've seen most games refer to as Blood Magic.
As for why a Thaumaturge or even an Arcanist can cast powerful spells, but it harms a Conjurer to do so for extended periods of time.... I'm not sure, honestly. It could be that their spells are more taxing, or that it is simply not how the magic works, and if you use it that way it's more harmful to you. Thaumaturgy is supposed to draw from your own aether and it took several hundred years and one megalomaniac thaumaturge wanting to bring down a moon to change the way that magic worked into Black Magic. Conversely, Conjury was taught to mankind by moogles. To use and meditate in a very certain way so as to achieve a very specific purpose - communing with the Elementals. Like so many things in the Shroud, the magic seems to follow a very unbending set of rules. So that would be my theory on why it's more harmful to use (improperly). But again just a theory.
With the raise thing, I pretty much fall in line with Warren's thinking. When you get KO'd in game, you're being literally knocked out. When you receive your first raise, you become weakened, struggling to keep going. When you get KO'd again, you become on the Brink of Death and you're seriously just dead weight at that point. In the teleportation lore it basically says if a healer doesn't eventually pick you up from being unconscious, your body will return to the lifestream and be pulled to your personal lodestone, if your body is still strong enough to make the journey. Otherwise, you return to the lifestream and that's it... you're dead.
Also, pretty sure Sylphie doesn't try to raise that Wood Wailer in that one quest (forgets name) but more like she does an epicly massive cure bomb, something akin to what everyone did to Val at the last Grindstone.
EDIT: MOAR EDITING! Also, something interesting to note... is Spell Speed. Check out the 1.0 Cinematic video as well as the End of an Era Calamity video. Watch when the NPCs cure (gla in 1.0 & whm in Calamity) Healing seems to be a constant spells that's happening as it's cast. So it seems like per lore it's a constant drain the longer they hold the cure spell. Versus elemental damaging abilities (used by the cnj in 1.0 vid & blm in Calamity) which seem to have a rediculously long cast time. That BLM in the End of an Era trailer takes like 30 seconds to cast that Fire III. So that may be the secret to how a THM can sustain where a CNJ cannot, since THMs may have a ridiculous amount of cast time to gather and channel their own raw aether versus a CNJ who has to constantly act as a siphon or channel between man and nature the longer they want to keep spell casting. So spike drain versus constant drain.
(03-17-2015, 10:45 AM)Gegenji Wrote: So, unless there's something going on with that Sacred Geometry that's drastically reducing the user's aetheric usage, you'd think casting Resurrection would be just as dangerous on one's reserves as a Raise using one's own energy.
This made me remember something from the ALC questline. The arcane geometries allow the caster to visualize their spells, but the ink in which the symbols are drawn is what helps the Arcanist actually channel the energies into a spell. The ink is aether conductive (ie metals that conduct aether like silver, gold, electrum). So it's possible that ACN don't actually NEED to use much aether to cast spells because the ink on their books amplifies their energy. Better ink, less exertion casting.
RE: Lore Reasons:White Mage? - Naunet - 03-17-2015
(03-17-2015, 10:45 AM)Sounsyy Wrote: It's a pretty interesting conundrum.
Cuz see, before the Calamity, Conjurers weren't primarily a healer. Yes, they had lots of Cure spells, but they had way more elemental spells of varying powers. Things like Flare, Quake, Tornado. Also some really powerful DoTs with some rather violent names: Choke, Drown, etc, which did a DoT + a status effect + weakened the enemy to that elemental type, making the high level magicks like Freeze even more powerful.Â
Meanwhile in Thanalan, Thaumaturges had their Astral and Umbral magic shifting but could also heal, raise, regen, etc using their own life force.
I would really caution against using game mechanics from 1.0 as a lore base. It's far more likely that SE expects us to just retcon in our minds what conjurers and thaumaturges have been and are capable of doing.
RE: Lore Reasons:White Mage? - Gegenji - 03-17-2015
(03-17-2015, 10:45 AM)Sounsyy Wrote:(03-17-2015, 10:45 AM)Gegenji Wrote: So, unless there's something going on with that Sacred Geometry that's drastically reducing the user's aetheric usage, you'd think casting Resurrection would be just as dangerous on one's reserves as a Raise using one's own energy.
This made me remember something from the ALC questline. The arcane geometries allow the caster to visualize their spells, but the ink in which the symbols are drawn is what helps the Arcanist actually channel the energies into a spell. The ink is aether conductive (ie metals that conduct aether like silver, gold, electrum). So it's possible that ACN don't actually NEED to use much aether to cast spells because the ink on their books amplifies their energy. Better ink, less exertion casting.
Right, but ACN are not alone in their focii. THM use the gems in their staves as mentioned in the GSM quest chain, and even CNJ "attunement" is aided directly through their staves as mentioned in one of the CRP quests. Would this mean that if a CNJ could use their staff on their own aetheric energies like a THM/ACN's gems and sigils, that they could cast a Raise through their own power?
In which case...
RE: Lore Reasons:White Mage? - Sounsyy - 03-17-2015
(03-17-2015, 02:35 PM)Naunet Wrote: I would really caution against using game mechanics from 1.0 as a lore base. It's far more likely that SE expects us to just retcon in our minds what conjurers and thaumaturges have been and are capable of doing.
I can understand this viewpoint, but I also believe that because of the retcon we can use the 1.0 mechanics as a lore base. During the Las Vegas Lore Panel, Fernehalwes fully admitted to the retcon of CNJ and THM abilities when he was explaining the lore team's involvement with all other teams working on re-writing the game, basically ensuring that everything remained within the lore boundaries of the game. But when the battle team approached the lore team and told them they were swapping the mechanics of the two classes, it was something the lore team didn't have much say in and were forced to retcon the lore and hope no one noticed.
Which basically means that 1.0's classes, abilities, and mechanics were created with the world's lore in mind, while the 2.0 classes were created with mechanics in mind, not lore. So if anything, we should be looking at 1.0's classes, because the 1.0 lore still holds true to them, even if mechanics have changed - because there has been no new lore to account for the discrepancy. Why would a CNJ not be able to commune with Fire Elementals? There's absolutely no reason.
Is it a grey area? Sure. But it's a grey area that will never be filled in.
(03-17-2015, 03:10 PM)Gegenji Wrote: Right, but ACN are not alone in their focii. THM use the gems in their staves as mentioned in the GSM quest chain, and even CNJ "attunement" is aided directly through their staves as mentioned in one of the CRP quests.
I could be wrong, but I think the difference could be that an Arcanist's grimoire isn't just a focus like staves for Thaumaturges and Conjurers, but also an amplifier of their aether. According to the lodestone text on the mediums, it's the actual glyphs and symbols drawn in the book that are the focus for an Arcanist's spells, but it's the quality of the ink in which they are drawn which facilitates easier casting. Where as a Thaumaturge's strength comes from within himself and a Conjurer's strength comes from nature, perhaps an Arcanist's strength is more or less dependent upon the quality of their weapon?
Serendipity Wrote:This gemstone is the focal point of the design, both aesthetically and practically speaking. It is what allows a thaumaturge to channel the aetherial energies within.
Anonymous Arcanist Wrote:For an arcanist to weave his spells, he must conjure in his mind the image of distinct mystical diagrams known as arcane geometries. These geometries are inscribed upon the pages of a grimoire, such as the one you constructed at my request.
The most important aspect of any grimoire is the quality of the ink used to illustrate its pages. Geometries drawn with ink that is especially conductive to the flow of aether allow the arcanist to more effectively channel his magical strength.
Sadly, I don't have the text for the CRP quest explanation for conjurer staves, so I'll quote the original medium text off the lodestone below:
RE: Lore Reasons:White Mage? - Zyrusticae - 03-17-2015
(03-17-2015, 09:06 AM)Kage Wrote: They are just at the cusp of dying but not dead yet cause they were KNOCKED OUT not dead.
![[Image: worrying.png]](http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/worrying.png)
...Couldn't resist.