+- Hydaelyn Role-Players (https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/mybb18)
+-- Forum: Community (https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/mybb18/forumdisplay.php?fid=8)
+--- Forum: RP Discussion (https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/mybb18/forumdisplay.php?fid=13)
+--- Thread: The How To Help Newbie RPers In Making Connections Forum (/showthread.php?tid=10821)
RE: The How To Help Newbie RPers In Making Connections Forum - Domri Blackblade - 03-28-2015
EDIT: I'm a derp. Ignore me!
RE: The How To Help Newbie RPers In Making Connections Forum - Aris - 03-28-2015
Once this thread has gotten quieter, if Ilwe'ran's points could be made to a separate thread that would be really neat, because they've provided some great tips for new roleplayers and ideas for roleplay starters. I know I've been taking notes.
I'm sure there are some other posts as well, will find them in amongst all the discussion.
RE: The How To Help Newbie RPers In Making Connections Forum - Tiergan - 03-28-2015
After some time, we should do a sweep of the thread, pluck out all the advice given towards oldbies and newbies alike, organize it, and stick it up where it's easier to read.
RE: The How To Help Newbie RPers In Making Connections Forum - Ilwe'ran - 03-28-2015
(03-28-2015, 03:01 PM)Aris Wrote: Once this thread has gotten quieter, if Ilwe'ran's points could be made to a separate thread that would be really neat, because they've provided some great tips for new roleplayers and ideas for roleplay starters. I know I've been taking notes.
I'm humbled by your words
. As I can find my messages easily here they are. Again I apologize for the confuse order and the fact I just.. Spread them along that topic as some ideas were coming.- Bunch of advices to make connections
- How to create an occasion
- fishing for some RP
- How to get people knowing about you in a natural way
- How to do if you are shy or know some shy people
And Berrod made a post with all the messages with advices > here <, we could try to update it
RE: The How To Help Newbie RPers In Making Connections Forum - ArmachiA - 03-28-2015
(03-28-2015, 09:15 AM)Nebbs Wrote: 2. New RPer meeting New RPer
This can be like finding your own way, a FC or friends help.
I'm of a mind that this needs to happen more often. New Rpers connecting with new RPers more often would be a great
(03-28-2015, 02:47 PM)Tiergan Wrote: Okay, this is slightly unrelated to the topic at hand, but I feel like I need to get this down on the table and out in the open because I get the feeling it's a massive source of tension in conversations like these:
Graeham, I have to be honest in that every time a vague "popular group of people who are manipulative two-faced assholes" gets brought up, I pause and feel some level of anxiety over whether or not I or folks I know are getting lumped in there. I have to keep reminding myself that it's impossible (well, at least for me specifically) because you and I have never interacted outside of this website and I haven't really even been online enough for the past three months to really do much RP to begin with, but the anxiety is there nonetheless and I'm sure other people likely feel it too.
Thing is, he has to stay vague. It's against the rules to call people out directly. Not a bad rule, but explains why he's forced to be passive aggressive in this instance.
and I agree after the discussion is over (Discussion is good! Keep up discussion!) Throw the useful stuff into a resource thread.
RE: The How To Help Newbie RPers In Making Connections Forum - Tiergan - 03-28-2015
(03-28-2015, 07:24 PM)ArmachiA Wrote:(03-28-2015, 02:47 PM)Tiergan Wrote: Okay, this is slightly unrelated to the topic at hand, but I feel like I need to get this down on the table and out in the open because I get the feeling it's a massive source of tension in conversations like these:
Graeham, I have to be honest in that every time a vague "popular group of people who are manipulative two-faced assholes" gets brought up, I pause and feel some level of anxiety over whether or not I or folks I know are getting lumped in there. I have to keep reminding myself that it's impossible (well, at least for me specifically) because you and I have never interacted outside of this website and I haven't really even been online enough for the past three months to really do much RP to begin with, but the anxiety is there nonetheless and I'm sure other people likely feel it too.
Thing is, he has to stay vague. It's against the rules to call people out directly. Not a bad rule, but explains why he's forced to be passive aggressive in this instance.
and I agree after the discussion is over (Discussion is good! Keep up discussion!) Throw the useful stuff into a resource thread.
I'm not advocating that he call people out. I understand why those rules are there and I definitely think they should be followed. I'm saying there is absolutely a way for him to say what he means without making a large cluster of people wonder if he's making passive-aggressive snipes at folks in the conversation itself.
Just saying something along the lines of "I've encountered some more established members of the community ignoring newer ones and it's extremely disheartening for those of us trying to break into RP for the first time." is enough to get across his meaning without coming off passive-aggressive.
RE: The How To Help Newbie RPers In Making Connections Forum - Aris - 03-28-2015
I don't know if there'd be any interest in this, but I wonder if some sort of project would help where more comfortable/experienced volunteer roleplayers are matched up with new, shy, or people finding it difficult to find roleplay. Just a one off time, not a regular thing unless it was a huge success. It isn't a mentoring scheme or anything like that, just a way to find a RP partner.
The people matched can then decide the details of their characters meeting. If they were to go to an event and introduce them to a bigger circle that would certainly be good but not neccessary.
If it's someone very new to roleplaying it would be insightful for them I'm sure, but I suppose we don't get many completely new people joining so.. perhaps not the best idea. I still consider myself new since I haven't properly got around to roleplaying with anyone yet and just talk about it lol.
Any thoughts, or probably a disaster?
Hey, for whatever reason, this thread has helped me come out of my lurker status a bit so that's nice, thanks guys.
RE: The How To Help Newbie RPers In Making Connections Forum - Tiergan - 03-28-2015
(03-28-2015, 08:04 PM)Aris Wrote: I don't know if there'd be any interest in this, but I wonder if some sort of project would help where more comfortable/experienced volunteer roleplayers are matched up with new, shy, or people finding it difficult to find roleplay. Just a one off time, not a regular thing unless it was a huge success. It isn't a mentoring scheme or anything like that, just a way to find a RP partner.
The people matched can then decide the details of their characters meeting. If they were to go to an event and introduce them to a bigger circle that would certainly be good but not neccessary.
If it's someone very new to roleplaying it would be insightful for them I'm sure, but I suppose we don't get many completely new people joining so.. perhaps not the best idea. I still consider myself new since I haven't properly got around to roleplaying with anyone yet and just talk about it lol.
Any thoughts, or probably a disaster?
Hey, for whatever reason, this thread has helped me come out of my lurker status a bit so that's nice, thanks guys.
...
::Bundles adorable popoto friend in a blanket to make a burrito and hugs:: You are so cute. ;A;
Also, I tried something like this before - if we do launch a initiative like that again, I strongly vote we organize folks by timezone/schedule. When I first tried it, I was dumb and sometimes unknowingly matched people with incompatible schedules together and had to do some reassigning.
RE: The How To Help Newbie RPers In Making Connections Forum - Chillsmack - 03-29-2015
I'm not sure this is something that you can ever really fix because the cause isn't simple and so a solution would have to be just as complicated and multifaceted. LS die because they can't really enforce participation, and dedicated mentoring would end up becoming a job where you are essentially forcing RP connections (which will make one of the points I'm about to make that much harder to deal with).
If you're a not-so-well-known RPer here like myself want to become more popular within the community, it's one of those "be patient, it WILL take lots of time" situations, and the amount of time required grows the older that community is. Let me explain and talk as one of those people on the outside looking in:
Cliques happen and often times they are unintentional. Sure, some people are snobs, but for the most part - as it has been pointed out - some people simply don't have enough free time left over from real life and RP and so they can't commit to learning to RP with another character all over again (and each RP connection is, in fact, a learning experience). Plus RPing in an MMO is fully-engaging: it's not like forum or post RP where you can respond at your leisure and write as long as you have the right tool to do so. In an MMO you have to glue yourself to your computer. This limits free time even more.
Then consider what RP is like on an MMO. No game is EVER made for RPers or with RP at the forefront of its design goals, which means each one ends up turning into a conflicting, messy play pen with pot-holes in the lore, conflicts between game mechanics and immersion-breaking explanations for those mechanics, etc (there is no greater proof than all the lore discussions and arguments that happen here on RPC lol). Finding good RP, as a result, is simply hard. Also maintaining good RP is equally difficult if not more so because people will sometimes poof from the game (and many never return).
That last point I want to highlight further because FF14 has such a long and hard past, and as a result, so too will its RPers. Some of us started at 2.0 but there are others who have been around and RPing since 1.0; that's a lot to compete with. Think about all the connections and plots that people have worked on only to have them abandoned by the other people involved (either mid-plot, or afterwards). Heck I can go through the wiki and pick one  ACTIVE bio at random and see a list of connections and relationships which is likely over half full of characters who aren't even around anymore or are barely active, but based on the descriptions these were clearly involved relationships with stories behind each one. Also, think about all the plots that have going on for SO LONG and are simply too involved to bring in some random new face out of the blue. As a result, it's not hard to believe that good RPers tend to cling to those other good RPers who stick around for the long haul - they're like freakin' unicorns lol. And that, I've always felt, has the been the obstacle for the rest of us. VeteranA doesn't know Newbie, so Newbie could very well end up leaving FF14 after only a few months, so does veteranA really want to really dive into some serious RP with them especially when they have SuperPlot#1 with veterans B and C going on?
Frankly, I can't imagine trying to fit my character in with someone who has 4842735049 IC RP buddies, and have people here on the RPC hanging off their jock in every thread lol I mean, look at the fun games that we play here like "Characters mine have a crush on" or "Characters I want to RP with more" or "Let's draw pictures of each other" - it's the same popular characters featured over and over again. Who wants to be another face that someone else has to struggle to remember along with all of their FC buddies, RP linkshells, buddy lists, and the people here on RPC? The relationship, in the beginning, would likely become an obligation, and being a chore is not something any of us enjoy which is where the newbies contribute to the failing inclusivity of the community. In the dynamic of established-RP and unknown-RPer, it will likely be the "new guy" who is going to feel that way because he or she is pretty much a side project for the person who already has a bunch of storylines going on and is just. flatout. EXHAUSTED lol A person can sense when they are being a chore to RP with, and it robs of them of the inspiration to continue. So they leave, and they take personal offense and say that the veteran wasn't trying.
And that's what I mean by multifaceted cause: it's not just the popular kids' fault and it's not just the newbies' fault. It's just unfair circumstances because that's life sometimes. I know we live in an age now where every kid gets a trophy just for showing up, but the universe does not exist to please us. Remembering and being rationale about that is what helps keep me from being frustrated in my attempts to branch out more here on the RPC and in-game and it's something I encourage others to do as well: when you remind yourself that people aren't trying to form cliques, you don't get mad when you see it happen.
That's the only advice I can offer to my fellow "unknowns:" stiffen your upper lip, be level-headed, and be patient. Alternatively - and this isn't a jab at those of you who do have popular characters because obviously you've put the time and energy into your RP and should be proud of being in demand - don't try to get in with the veteran characters or RPers in the first place; don't make that a goal. Try to RP with other people who aren't so well-established in the community instead.
And always try to match up your time-zones.
RE: The How To Help Newbie RPers In Making Connections Forum - Ilwe'ran - 03-29-2015
The main problem of that topic is it turned onto some "veteran" vs "newbie" thing and it makes me feel really uneasy.
- There are Veteran who don't find some RP (I know a bunch of those)
- There are Newbies who have no problem to find some RP.
- RP is possible between Veterans.
- RP is possible between Newbies & Veterans.
- RP is possible between Newbies.
And for some reasons, while the topic was going on, it turned onto so "Why do the Veteran (Aka the community) don't RP with the newbie". I don't like this and for several reasons.
Why can't the newbies RP with some other newbies ? I mean.. There is no law anywhere saying that for existing in the community you are forced to reach out to the Veteran and hope them to see you. You can RP with some other people who just joined the game too, create your own stories and have fun. It's a waste of time to focus on a goal such as "breaking into the community", focus on "making some nice connections" instead
It's not important if the one you RP with are considered as Veteran or Newbie, what is important is to have fun and the "Veteran" status doesn't imply that you will have more fun with them. Anyway you will see that the more you will progress in your story, the more you will meet people and the more you will meet some people who knows who are supposed to be some veterans and you will eventually be considered as a veteran yourself.
Focus on yourself. I mean, you created a character and his background, you probably have several loose ends you need to fix because, somehow, that's what makes a character interesting and fun, so.. Focus on your character, meet some people you like whether they are there since long or not and are well known or not.
- Use the LS / Making connection forum to find some specific people to help on specific point on your story.
- Meet some people on random place, dunno, the quicksand is an idea, but there are all sort of places where there are RPer : RP in open space, visits some bars / taverns / IC houses (Check Xen's list > HERE <).
- Post some advertisements in the Tonberry's Lantern section of the forum. If you have the time, try to make it looking like a real advertisement.
- Read the Making Connections part of the forum. It's not because you will post a message there that the people posting a message in this section will read it, just have a look there, see if someone could match with your type of RP and pm them if that's the case.
Never force yourself. Find and follow your own pace, don't stress yourself out, people will feel it as well. There are tons of way to meet people, as for IRL, sometimes it will be OOC first, sometimes you will just have someone running at you in Ul'dah's market and before you could know it, people will talk about you as being a Veteran and will consider you as a model
.
RE: The How To Help Newbie RPers In Making Connections Forum - Tiergan - 03-29-2015
Originally, this conversation was about how more established members could help out newer folks settle in, but Ilwe'ran's right in that not all veterans and not all newbies have the same experience.
I know a lot of RPers who have been around since launch who still struggle with getting RP at times for various reasons (usually out of shyness, fear that they are bothering other people, or fear that their somehow roleplay isn't good enough). By contrast, I've also met and befriended some Rpers who are brand new to the community who seem to be swimming in RP.
From that perspective, this conversation would probably work out better if we reframed it more as a "How to help Members of the Community who are Struggling to Get RP" angle instead of purely a newbie/oldbie dynamic.
RE: The How To Help Newbie RPers In Making Connections Forum - Chillsmack - 03-30-2015
(03-29-2015, 09:52 PM)Tiergan Wrote: From that perspective, this conversation would probably work out better if we reframed it more as a "How to help Members of the Community who are Struggling to Get RP" angle instead of purely a newbie/oldbie dynamic.
I think it'd be far more productive, yeah. Maybe someone should just start another thread?
RE: The How To Help Newbie RPers In Making Connections Forum - Nebbs - 03-30-2015
This is really a community outcome achieved by individuals taking just a little time to be aware and interact a little more. Both new people and established people, a little thing goes a long way when we all do it.
"Today I will talk to someone IC that I have not done so before"
.
RE: The How To Help Newbie RPers In Making Connections Forum - Kellach Woods - 03-30-2015
(03-28-2015, 07:35 PM)Tiergan Wrote: Just saying something along the lines of "I've encountered some more established members of the community ignoring newer ones and it's extremely disheartening for those of us trying to break into RP for the first time." is enough to get across his meaning without coming off passive-aggressive.
The moment you make that assertion you're in for the long haul because people can and WILL expect you to name names and have logs to present as proof. Which, let's be real here, won't happen.
Also, reframing it like "how do we help people who struggle with finding RP?" won't help either - you'll get a rehash of the thread with even more people being condescending towards the people that would need the help and not the condescension.
Also, the reason why inter-generational RP needs to happen is two-fold :
1) It integrates the newer person into the overall community, giving them a much larger range of contacts, while also exposing them to a larger amount of criticism and reinforcement for the development of their character from people who have played with the lore of the game for a long time.
2) It broadens the horizons of the veteran player and allows them easier access to new people who may be closer to his niche.
Sure, new people RPing with new people is good because heyyyy RP~ but is it healthy for the community to have that kind of split? Not really.
RE: The How To Help Newbie RPers In Making Connections Forum - Cato - 03-30-2015
Threads involving solid debate evolve naturally over time so creating a separate thread with a slightly different title doesn't strike me as necessary. If anything, adjusting the title of this thread may be beneficial since then everything that has been posted thus far can be compiled in one easy to access location.