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+--- Thread: Complaint/Rant/Thing: What's with all the aggression lately? (/showthread.php?tid=11216)
RE: Complaint/Rant/Thing: What's with all the aggression lately? - Parvacake - 04-22-2015
(04-22-2015, 06:20 PM)K Wrote: People having a thin-skin is often not the real problem in my experience. Rather, it's other peoples' lack of ability to acknowledge the reasons why their posts have been perceived negatively, furthered by their lack of consideration to clarify their stance while reinforcing a friendly - or at least neutral - tone in such a message.This. Hoolllyyyyyy shit this.
Sometimes people just seem far too concerned with their own voice and the validity of their own opinions to do anything other than default to placing it far above the reactions, thoughts and feelings - spoken or unspoken - of those whom may read it/it was directed at.
Now, personally? I get a lot of shit from my boyfriend and some of my close friends (looking at you Ezhara bb~) for playing devil's advocate too much. I do it for everyone. I try to take a step back and think about how the other person might feel even when I have the third party opinions going "DON'T DO IT. FUCK 'EM. GET OUTTA THERE" because I try to treat others as I would like to be treated. One of these being taking the extra minute or two out of my day to propose how things are for the other person's side given what I know or can inference and try to keep it in mind for my responses and decisions in regards towards/about that individual.
I know not everyone does this, and even my usually vigilant efforts fall short at times.
But it sometimes seems to be what many lack. Putting their own voice above and beyond anyone elses' and unable to take a moment to acknowledge how it might come across to another and even moreso when it's actually addressed to the individual whether in a PM, over the forum, etc. 'Nope, don't see it, sorry' usually being along the general phrasing that I've witnessed.
I've seen it a lot in this community though usually in the game in OOC interactions rather then here on the forums though I have spied it here as well.
As a last note, enforcing what others have already said before and myself as well:
No need to be an asshole.
We're all people behind the screen.
In relation to the above: If you wouldn't speak to someone a certain way in a face-to-face conversation, why do it on a forum and be surprised if it's not taken well?
RE: Complaint/Rant/Thing: What's with all the aggression lately? - ArmachiA - 04-22-2015
(04-22-2015, 07:20 PM)Kellach Woods Wrote: To finish this long-ass rant with a drama-filled, over-sensitive phrase because I totes can : Instead of "being excellent to one another", we have collectively said "fuck you I got mine".
(04-22-2015, 07:21 PM)Melkire Wrote: But expecting to find RP here without selling yourself, the way many of us have had to do, is a little like having your cake and eating it too.
I actually agree with both these statements, as contradictory as that may be.
RE: Complaint/Rant/Thing: What's with all the aggression lately? - Iex - 04-22-2015
So... I don't think this thread is anywhere near it was started as, though it is quite frankly the most amazing example I have seen of what the thread was about.
(This post ignores the attitude issue that may be present.)
Though....
Honestly, I always thought the purpose of the RPC was to provide an out of game resource for Roleplaying in the game of FFXIV as well as a place for folks to discuss concepts RP thoughts and matters such as that.
A tool to establish contacts for RP and help folks with similar interests in RPing connect. I did not think it was supposed to be a place where you build your friendships. I would say media such as Skype, IN game, or other messenger services help you get to know people better because if there is confusion of behavior it can be corrected immediately.
I do not believe the RPC is supposed to be telling folks what they can or cannot do with their friends in any matter. It is a neutral ground where things can be discussed (a marketplace if you will.) and not a guiding hand.
Friendships do not happen magically. For some socially active people it is easy, and for others it is quite perilous. However, expecting friendship to find you is always going to fail.
The same is true with RPing. As a Quicksandite I see generally... 5-20 people normally just STANDING THERE without a single line of RP waiting to be approached, even with "walk up welcome." Some of them naturally are erp alts and some of them are waiting for someone they know.
Waiting will get you no where.
(What does this have to do with RPC)
I direct your attention to the event forums. If you are not the type to be good at walk ups, I suggest you GO TO EVERY EVENT YOU CAN. The clique everyone seems to be talking about isn't what folks thinks.
It is the clique of being proactive in RP and demonstrating to folks you are eager to RP. Folks will respond to someone wanting to RP if they have seen it isn't going to be a one sided affair.
Why don't you see a bunch of the people on the RPC in the Quicksand or outside of events? Because they have a big circle of friends who they RP with, but they attend events which give them a chance to meet new people. People have limited time, and people are within their right to RP with the folks they want to.
That being said a bigger presence in game from proactive RPing and attending of public events tends to reflect on folks actually knowing who you are and more likely to be social with you in game and on the forum.
It won't be instant.
It won't be quick.
And you may never get the attention of the group you first were aiming for.
But... you will end up getting nestled into your own little place that is comfortable and you enjoy yourself.
Being proactive on your in fixing 'problems' rather than trying to find things causing them to blame seems to me to be the better route.
RE: Complaint/Rant/Thing: What's with all the aggression lately? - Kellach Woods - 04-22-2015
(04-22-2015, 07:24 PM)ArmachiA Wrote:(04-22-2015, 07:20 PM)Kellach Woods Wrote: To finish this long-ass rant with a drama-filled, over-sensitive phrase because I totes can : Instead of "being excellent to one another", we have collectively said "fuck you I got mine".
(04-22-2015, 07:21 PM)Melkire Wrote: But expecting to find RP here without selling yourself, the way many of us have had to do, is a little like having your cake and eating it too.
I actually agree with both these statements, as contradictory as that may be.
I don't view them as contradictory - They're both sides of the same coin.
Melkire is saying new people need to try, I'm saying old people need to try.
RE: Complaint/Rant/Thing: What's with all the aggression lately? - OttoVann - 04-22-2015
I told myself I wasn't going to post here anymore, however:
(04-22-2015, 07:24 PM)Iex Wrote: The same is true with RPing. As a Quicksandite I see generally... 5-20 people normally just STANDING THERE without a single line of RP waiting to be approached, even with "walk up welcome." Some of them naturally are erp alts and some of them are waiting for someone they know.
Some people who stand around don't have rp/erp intent of any kind and are instead idling to read the rp. To me thats boring and I wont do it, but out of those 20 idlers, 10 are looking for erp hooks, 7 are waiting for someone, hoping for an approach, and 3 are just idling to read everything else and won't rp / do not rp.
Ive got a lot of those people in my LS, it happens. Weird but they're happy so w/e.
RE: Complaint/Rant/Thing: What's with all the aggression lately? - Kage - 04-22-2015
(04-22-2015, 07:22 PM)Lililove Wrote: In relation to the above: If you wouldn't speak to someone a certain way in a face-to-face conversation, why do it on a forum and be surprised if it's not taken well?To be honest, a lot of people say this or things along this line... But it's quite possible most people actually would and do say the same things to other peoples' faces.
^ I don't think Iex and I have -ever- really spoken on the RPC (I think I was completely surprised when I finally read a post from him). But random hugs after seeing each other over and over and over in the same places has given me more cause to actually pursue? or get motivated to meet him in RP..
Re: Why I might ignore a post? It may just be the same thing others have said. I'm not the type to quote a bunch of the same posts just to say I agree with them. I'm more likely to respond if there's something that really grabs my interest or i have something to say to it. It's possible that goes for others too.
RE: Complaint/Rant/Thing: What's with all the aggression lately? - Kellach Woods - 04-22-2015
(04-22-2015, 07:21 PM)Melkire Wrote: I glanced through it just now and what I see (being honest here, not offensive) is more of the same "nobody wants to help the little guy find more RP" argument that, to me, has become noise that I have to tune out.Â
Why am I tuning it out? Because I don't have the time to dedicate to helping a bunch of new people out with roleplay. I've got one new contact I picked up recently who I'm helping to ease into the game and into RP, and that's already a stretch in that I have trouble getting to them. Copious free time, I do not have (most of my posting and moderating on the RPC is done from work).
Lemme tl;dr my post then :
- Post Count/Rep/Join Date don't seem to be causing problems or at least nothing that can be easily quantified.
- What seems to be causing problems is that nobody gives a shit about one another.
- Maybe if we tried giving a shit about one another the atmosphere would be more positive.
RE: Complaint/Rant/Thing: What's with all the aggression lately? - Iex - 04-22-2015
(04-22-2015, 07:29 PM)OttoVann Wrote: I told myself I wasn't going to post here anymore, however:
(04-22-2015, 07:24 PM)Iex Wrote: The same is true with RPing. As a Quicksandite I see generally... 5-20 people normally just STANDING THERE without a single line of RP waiting to be approached, even with "walk up welcome." Some of them naturally are erp alts and some of them are waiting for someone they know.
Some people who stand around don't have rp/erp intent of any kind and are instead idling to read the rp. Â To me thats boring and I wont do it, but out of those 20 idlers, 10 are looking for erp hooks, 7 are waiting for someone, hoping for an approach, and 3 are just idling to read everything else and won't rp / do not rp.
Ive got a lot of those people in my LS, it happens. Â Weird but they're happy so w/e.
I... am not sure what you mean by that.
You just restated what I said. I don't think the people who are reading things and happy about that are the ones feeling slighted by folks not being social/rping with them.
RE: Complaint/Rant/Thing: What's with all the aggression lately? - OttoVann - 04-22-2015
(04-22-2015, 07:35 PM)Iex Wrote:(04-22-2015, 07:29 PM)OttoVann Wrote: I told myself I wasn't going to post here anymore, however:
(04-22-2015, 07:24 PM)Iex Wrote: The same is true with RPing. As a Quicksandite I see generally... 5-20 people normally just STANDING THERE without a single line of RP waiting to be approached, even with "walk up welcome." Some of them naturally are erp alts and some of them are waiting for someone they know.
Some people who stand around don't have rp/erp intent of any kind and are instead idling to read the rp. Â To me thats boring and I wont do it, but out of those 20 idlers, 10 are looking for erp hooks, 7 are waiting for someone, hoping for an approach, and 3 are just idling to read everything else and won't rp / do not rp.
Ive got a lot of those people in my LS, it happens. Â Weird but they're happy so w/e.
I... am not sure what you mean by that.
You just restated what I said. I don't think the people who are reading things and happy about that are the ones feeling slighted by folks not being social/rping with them.
I was saying there's a third type of Quicksand person who just stands around. Not everyone is hoping for approach for whatever they want.
RE: Complaint/Rant/Thing: What's with all the aggression lately? - Parvacake - 04-22-2015
(04-22-2015, 07:32 PM)Kage Wrote:I'll quote if it's something I agree with or to directly respond to it and I try to add more substance if I can(04-22-2015, 07:22 PM)Lililove Wrote: In relation to the above: If you wouldn't speak to someone a certain way in a face-to-face conversation, why do it on a forum and be surprised if it's not taken well?To be honest, a lot of people say this or things along this line... But it's quite possible most people actually would and do say the same things to other peoples' faces.
^ I don't think Iex and I have -ever- really spoken on the RPC (I think I was completely surprised when I finally read a post from him). But random hugs after seeing each other over and over and over in the same places has given me more cause to actually pursue? or get motivated to meet him in RP..
Re: Why I might ignore a post? It may just be the same thing others have said. I'm not the type to quote a bunch of the same posts just to say I agree with them. I'm more likely to respond if there's something that really grabs my interest or i have something to say to it. It's possible that goes for others too.
And yeah. I'm sure some do. But I've also seen quite a few who don't and then get huffy when they see others don't care much for it.
RE: Complaint/Rant/Thing: What's with all the aggression lately? - No Longer Exists - 04-22-2015
I will no longer be participating in this discussion. Not because I am ignoring the issue, but because I am disappointed with the bend it has now taken.
I am ashamed of some of the people who have posted in these last few pages. Honestly ashamed, as an RPer, as a member of this community, and as a human being. You've taken it too far.
There is a line between radicalism and pushing your viewpoint on other people. This thread, in my opinion, has escalated so quickly to that level with posts that repeat the exact same mantra, over and over again ad nauseum and it has begun to feel less like constructive criticism and a call to action but more like picketing until we get what we want.
Earlier today, I put a thread in "Making Connections" with a silly name that had nothing to do with the topic INTENTIONALLY to see what would happen and if anyone was actually looking. I promised that anyone who posted there would be responded to within 24 hours and RP would happen. The individuals who have been lobbying for "newbie interaction" made no attempt to post in it nor (I would guess) did they look. I received nearly 10 responses from other members of the community though and we've made plans to get together to RP.
My Rep is currently 25ish, not very high. My post count is also not very high. My RP attempt in Town Hall was largely observed but ignored.Â
I FEEL that certain individuals in this thread should be ashamed of themselves.
That is all.
RE: Complaint/Rant/Thing: What's with all the aggression lately? - Cato - 04-22-2015
I've never been a huge fan of the whole idea of 'thick skin/thin skin'. In my experience it usually ends up going down a rather unpleasant path. On one hand you have overly sensitive individuals who push for every perceived slight against them to be punished severely which can lead to excessive censorship and on the other hand you have people who expect others to 'toughen up' so that they can essentially continue acting like jerks.
So something more in the middle is ideal but I think for the most part we're already there - we just need less people kicking up a fuss/making it personal whenever they perceive that there's somebody out to get them.
Personally speaking I have no issue with anybody on this site. I post in these threads because I enjoy a good debate and I like to help improve things through dialogue. I'm also not a very subtle person and so I tend raise awareness of potential issues that others may not feel comfortable bringing up.
Now I'm not so naive as to believe that there's absolutely no bad blood between specific individuals on this site. I don't think I've ever been in a role-playing community that didn't have rivalries at play beneath the surface ranging form the mild to the extreme.
I do, however, appreciate it when people take their concerns to PM to try and discuss things outside of the public eye (which risks others fanning the flames of an already sensitive conversation) so my appreciation goes out to those who have done that!
RE: Complaint/Rant/Thing: What's with all the aggression lately? - Melkire - 04-22-2015
(04-22-2015, 07:34 PM)Kellach Woods Wrote: Lemme tl;dr my post then :
- Post Count/Rep/Join Date don't seem to be causing problems or at least nothing that can be easily quantified.
- What seems to be causing problems is that nobody gives a shit about one another.
- Maybe if we tried giving a shit about one another the atmosphere would be more positive.
Thank you for tl;dr, it helps a lot (no sarcasm, I'm being sincere; tone is difficult on the internet). If I might be a bit forward, I'd like to ask: who doesn't care about who?
I can tell you that (relatively) new folks who are vocal are heard (EDIT: even if not acted upon, "heard" is different than "addressed"). You and Graeham, for example, are two folks who immediately spring to mind, folks that don't feel like they're being fairly treated. I can only speak for myself, but what I can say is this:
I've seen Graeham all of once in-game, and it was while I was bunnyhopping around Revenant's Toll looking at my gear trying to decide what I wanted to upgrade. He was at the Mail Moogle or something. I don't think I've ever seen you, Kellach, in-game. If you've ever been in my vicinity, I must've missed you due to some distraction. As someone who seems to be on when you folks aren't, or else is busy when you folks are on, is there something more I should be doing? Should I have sent Graeham a /tell going, "would you like to RP sometime?" Should I have sent you a PM here asking the same? I've mentioned before that I don't really have the time to spare, but if it's really on me, I'd like to know.
And if it isn't on me, who is it on? Is it on Warren, who I only ever usually see roleplaying during the Grindstone, and during those times he's really busy officiating and managing a few dozen different conversations at once? Is it on FreelanceWizard (who, by the by, I have never roleplayed with despite wishing to, with the exception of a single passing during a Gus Pumpkinweed event), who perhaps might be on when you two are also on but when I'm not? Is it on Sounsyy, whose schedule and availability I'm not even remotely familiar with? Is it on Random Free Company Member #473?
The claim that many a roleplayer has or may have adopted the "screw you I got mine" attitude might have some basis to it, but I'm really curious to know who is expected to address this concern when the folks who claim to care don't have the time and the folks who claim to have the time don't care.
EDIT:
And then there are folks like Black Hat. :<
RE: Complaint/Rant/Thing: What's with all the aggression lately? - Cato - 04-22-2015
I actually role-play fairly frequently but I can understand why it may be difficult for people to stumble across my character naturally. Aside from me being in a completely different time-zone to many members of this community I tend to prefer to head out into the wider game world and avoid lingering in the Quicksand or attending busy events simply because my personal preference is more towards interacting with one or two individuals at a time.
Another issue I've found is that I'll spy someone who has an intriguing character, get in touch with them and then either time-zones prove to be an issue, they don't get back to me or they end up defaulting to the Quicksand/houses as their 'go to' area for role-play.
Now obviously nobody is obligated to interact with anybody else but I do think it'd be pretty sweet if we saw more role-play seeping outside of the usual haunts. My character doesn't particularly like Ul'dah but I have him travel there from time to time because it's a great way to try and network. At the moment I've got a pretty intriguing plot going with a friend that took Graeham to Coerthas for the first time in his life - which has proven to be pretty fun!
RE: Complaint/Rant/Thing: What's with all the aggression lately? - Kellach Woods - 04-22-2015
(04-22-2015, 07:50 PM)Melkire Wrote: (snip)
I just wanted to tag you because that's not what I'm talking about hence the snipping.
I'm just talking about the forums, where snark rules supreme and outright hostility is tolerated (though IIRC all the mods chimed in to say that'll change which is good!) when I say "people just don't give a shit about one another". I'm still tackling the issue brought up in that the forums have grown more hostile lately and that's not good for anyone, new, old or fish.
The new/old thing was used as an example - The reason I mention my own examples is because they're the examples I know and am familiar with even though they're not really relevant because I feel like I need to preface the fact that I GET RP GUISE every single time I make a post.