Necromancy, death, and the undead.

Necromancy, death, and the undead. - Printable Version

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RE: Necromancy, death, and the undead. - Val - 03-12-2015

I'd planned on responding to this sooner but didn't have time due to needing to get RL things done, BUT!

If you check the wiki of most skeletal-based creatures, you'll find things such as: "Risen from the gave by some unholy magic, these skeletons roam the dark places ofÂ EorzeaÂ with a hatred untold of all of the five races."

Not to mention through the Tam-Tara quests, we find that Necromancy is certainly a thing. I don't think there's any real concrete lore on it. People obviously have souls, but how closely related are they to one's aether pool? Do people with better affinity for aether and its use have stronger souls/spiritual connection to the world, or?

As someone before mentioned with it having some sort of connection to the void, I believe that's a good assumption to make. Void magic seems to be a good way to get done what is normally not possible, and if you look up the wiki description of wisps, they state: "Wisps are widely believed to be the spiritual remnants of long-deceased souls. They display only limited cognitive abilities and react to their surroundings driven more by primitive inherent tendencies than complex reasoning. Using these observations as a foundation for their theory, certain scholars have formed the hypothesis that when wisps andÂ plasmoidsÂ cross over intoÂ Eorzeafrom the void, they mistake the glowingÂ firefliesÂ of this world as brethren and instinctively begin emulating their actions, thus the similarities that we see between the three families."

So one could say, then, that it's possible to pull the souls of adventurers from the Void? But how would they get there in the first place? There's a lot that isn't really answered and more that is left to assumption.

RE: Necromancy, death, and the undead. - Kage - 03-12-2015

Yeah I'm pretty sure there's a lot of the whole Void magics and such. You seem to get dead rising in places like Amdapor Keep HM too. Or the dead in Sastasha HM... or the zombies in Hildibrand.

Also the Alchemist questline deals with the guy trying to bring back his dead lover 5 years after the fact. I think it succeeds for a little bit.

lots of re-animation going on in the game though I'm not sure about the lore or how.

RE: Necromancy, death, and the undead. - Warren Castille - 03-12-2015

Put on your tinfoil, I've got some theory.

When someone dies, we know their soul moves on to the Lifestream, i.e. the circle of life/death/return. If what I remember about corpses needing to be tended so as to not rise (I sincerely wish I could remember where that came from) is true, and we combine that with what we know about the Voidsent (that they are always looking for cracks and pinholes in our world to slip through with) then... Well, the absence of a soul might makes for a pretty damn good pinhole.

Imps hang out around places where the dead are collected. It's probably something more complex than "quick, bind his hands so zombie Jim can't claw out of his coffin" but if you've got all of these corpses lying about, all of these canisters drawing the void to one place and all of these demons trying to slip through, it makes sense that we'd often see the Void and the Dead in the same places. Hell, I'd even go so far as to theorize that Avere's half-ahriman appearance is due to the fact that he's been dead for so long and Edda brings him to such a void-dense place (Tam-Tara being a place where the dead were kept, and some of those guys have been dead for a long time). It makes sense that such a tasty locale would harbor some of the stronger voidsent, and Avere's transformation just might have been something finally slipping through that pinhole.

Edit: Second theory: A soulless corpse might not be a pinhole, but it might be easier to control a dead body than it is to actually break through the barrier. We've seen through the THM questlines what voidsent possession looks like. Imagine that without a soul or a consciousness in the way to stop something malevolent from trying to control your body! Voidsent want to come through to Eorzea, but in lieu of that, why not do the next-best thing and just control something already here?

RE: Necromancy, death, and the undead. - Val - 03-12-2015

(03-12-2015, 10:35 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: Edit: Second theory: A soulless corpse might not be a pinhole, but it might be easier to control a dead body than it is to actually break through the barrier. We've seen through the THM questlines what voidsent possession looks like. Imagine that without a soul or a consciousness in the way to stop something malevolent from trying to control your body! Voidsent want to come through to Eorzea, but in lieu of that, why not do the next-best thing and just control something already here?

This kind of picks up on what I mentioned about the wisps. They're considered/believed to be souls from the Void. Why couldn't they find a lifeless corpse and animate them? It says they're driven by primitive instincts and stuff, so it makes sense that they wouldn't really be able to function like a living individual.

RE: Necromancy, death, and the undead. - Cassandra Lachance - 03-12-2015

That's a good point Warren.

Your last paragraph in particular is in line with many depictions of necromancy and non-magical reanimation. The idea that when you bring someone back, only the shell comes back, inhabited by something else.

You guys all have some impressive knowledge of the lore. ^^

RE: Necromancy, death, and the undead. - Warren Castille - 03-12-2015

(03-12-2015, 10:55 AM)Val Wrote: This kind of picks up on what I mentioned about the wisps. They're considered/believed to be souls from the Void. Why couldn't they find a lifeless corpse and animate them? It says they're driven by primitive instincts and stuff, so it makes sense that they wouldn't really be able to function like a living individual.

Wisps and plasmoids are neat because they always seem to appear at crystalline structures. Off the top of my head I can think of three locations: The icy cave in Coerthas in the bottom left of the map, the lightning?-aspected cluster in Mor Dhona near the Castrum and the... I forget-element cluster in Outer La Noscea. Maybe spirits that fell "out" of the Lifestream wind up being led back to Eorzea by way of aether, but without flesh to give them a body they just... hang out. I'm thinking they're the light-counterpart to the ghosts and stuff.

(03-12-2015, 10:58 AM)Cassandra Lachance Wrote: That's a good point Warren.

Your last paragraph in particular is in line with many depictions of necromancy and non-magical reanimation. The idea that when you bring someone back, only the shell comes back, inhabited by something else.

You guys all have some impressive knowledge of the lore. ^^

Enh, we're just spitballing and piecing to together the clues SE left us.

RE: Necromancy, death, and the undead. - Cassandra Lachance - 03-12-2015

(03-12-2015, 11:07 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: Enh, we're just spitballing and piecing to together the clues SE left us.

Well yeah, but I don't even have a clue. ^^

RE: Necromancy, death, and the undead. - Jaliqai - 03-12-2015

I could just roll around in this thread in all the beautiful theorizing.

Personally, I'm also of the camp that necromancy and Void magic are very closely related. I won't rehash all the points that've already been made and the opinions stated, but Warren's point of 'Maybe a dead body could be an easy foothold for a Voidsent' is something I just wanted to repeat because I've also personally used this in Xheja's backstory.Â

Of course, it's all just speculation at this point. But I think it's a fair assumption to make, given the anecdotal evidence in the game.

RE: Necromancy, death, and the undead. - Warren Castille - 03-12-2015

I think the repeat, world-wide occurrences of imps and corpses hanging out gives some real credence to this. Until SE tells us otherwise, it should be fair to run with.

Pre-post Edit:

AHA! I FOUND IT.

Quote: #1 Iliud Death begets death, especially in those places where privation is the sovereign. A corse left unburied is as a rich field to vilekin, where they may sow pestilence and water it with their miasma.

So... I was wrong about bodies unburied turning into zombies. Vilekin are just the gross bug-type enemies. Still, I found it! Time to amend theories...

RE: Necromancy, death, and the undead. - Sounsyy - 03-12-2015

I come with Lore! Lots of it!

Necromancy is a canon thing in Eorzea, but it is more commonly referred to as... Thaumaturgy. According to several NPCs over the years, ancient Thaumaturgy was once (and still is to a select few) capable of returning the dead from Thal's realm. By ancient Thaumaturgy, I specifically refer to the time of Belah'dia, whose magi left over from the 5th Astral Era were still renowned for their gifts. A favored practice of Belah'dia was animating inanimate objects to use as their armies, but this also included fallen soldiers.

After Belah'dia came Ul'dah and Sil'dih, twin cities belonging to twin brothers. For years, these cities coexisted competitively yet harmoniously. Until, roughly 400 years ago, when a devastating drought struck the desert. Ul'dah attacked Sil'dih for their water resources. Even after uniting their people to defend against Ul'dah, Sil'dih's forces were poorly matched against the might of Ul'dah. So the Thaumaturges of Sil'dih devised a last ditch effort to secure victory. They zombified their fallen soldiers like the Belah'dians of eld and sought to sick them upon Ul'dah. However, the result was disastrous. The zombies turned on the Sil'dihns and Ul'dah sealed the city off, trapping both the living and the dead within like a tomb.

At least... that's how history writes it. We later learned that the zombification was a devise of Ul'dahn alchemical making. While the Sil'dihns may or may not have attempted to raise their fallen soldiers, Ul'dah was content in unleashing their agent upon the still-living Sil'dihns, causing them to necrose.

This is why Thanalan is covered in zombies. They are the remains of long dead Sil'dihns and even Belah'dians who were resurrected using ancient Thaumaturgy or Ul'dah's alchemical concoction, known as The Trader's Spurn.

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Sil'dih Lore Text

Erik Wrote:Sil'dih was plunged into chaos in the wake of King Lalawefu's demiseâ”€or the King of Springs, as he was known. Despite the success of his economic reforms, the tax increases he imposed did not sit well with his subjects. This, coupled with a prolonged sequence of untimely droughts, fomented unrest among the people and in time sparked violent unrest throughout the kingdom.

Sil'dih was not alone in its want for water. Ul'dah, too, felt the effects of the droughts. The sultan at the time, Sasagan Ul Sisiganâ”€ Ah! But perhaps you recognize the Ul name? The current sultana, Nanamo Ul Namo, represents the second Ul dynasty. She is Sasagan's distant descendant. Now...where was I? Ah, yes! Right, so, Sasagan ordered an attack on Sil'dih to claim the water resources discovered as a result of Lalawefu's flood control acts.

But the royalty and nobility of Sil'dih would not remain idle. They mobilized their nation in the face of this crisis, and the people fought with great tenacity against the Ul'dahn threat. The full strength of both nations met in battle, and the end result was an arduous protracted conflict. Though arguably more desirable than surrender, the ruling Sil'dihn elite took little pleasure in having succeeded in uniting the theretofore querulous citizenry to fight. For despite all they accomplished, every day spent waging war dragged the nation's financial affairsâ”€which you will recall had only just been brought under controlâ”€back into the mire.

To bring an end to the long military deadlock, Sil'dih devised and set about implementing a perverse yet ambitious strategy. It sought to zombify the deceased among its army, that they might fight again. At first, it appeared to have worked. Yet at the height of hostilities, the Sil'dihns lost control over their necrotic creations. The undead turned on their masters, and before long the zombification had spread to a majority of the population.

Ever knowing an opportunity when they saw one, the Ul'dahns grasped this turn of events to justify their warâ”€now proclaiming it a crusade to send these zombies to Thal. After seeing to the extermination of all zombies outside the city, they then sealed the gates of Sil'dih, entrapping both the living and dead within.

Vista #17 Wrote:The Ruins of Sil'dih
The city-states of Ul'dah and Sil'dih coexisted for generations until 400 years ago when bad blood festering betwixt the two sultanates culminated in the War of the Sisters - leaving Sil'dih a smoldering pile of rubble to be claimed by the shifting desert sands. The subsequent relocation of Ul'dah placed the city-state nearly directly above her fallen sibling.

Yayaroku Wrote:As the histories tell it, the battles fought between the sister nations were the stuff of nightmares. In a desperate attempt to overcome Ul'dah's superior numbers, Sil'dihn alchemists devised a most horrific strategem. Employing a frightful formula known as the Trader's Spurn, they brought their fallen allies back from Thal's realm. Some theories have it that they even employed the potion on those of the living who were too weak or wounded to fight.

Moving past the horrors of Sil'dih, in more recent times (15 years ago) the former High Priest Mumuepo of the Order of Nald'thal also admits to possessing the power to raise the dead back to the living. In the 1.0 Ul'dahn MSQ, we are introduced to the story of Minfilia's father, Warburton, a double agent working for Garlemald and the Ala Mhigan Resistance. After his untimely demise at the hands of his partner Corguevais, his Ul'dahn handlers Niellefresne and F'lhaminn consort with Mumuepo in an attempt to temporarily restore life to Warburton and glean what secret information he had against Garlemald. (At the time he was returning with information on Garlemald's impending attack.) However, before the rite could be completed, Niellefresne was murdered by a Garlean agent, possibly Warburton (who may or may not actually be dead).

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As for ghosts and revenants and the like, these are souls who are bound to this realm and their soul remains long after their aether has returned to the lifestream. This also applies to Tempered people who are slain. The Tempering process binds them to this realm and even in death, they are trapped here.

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Haukke Manor! Arguably not necromancy and more along the lines of this is what happens when you deal with the Void. Lady Amandine, in her crazed attempt at remaining beautiful as she aged, began bathing in the blood of her virgin maidservants. However, no amount of man-made solutions would counteract the scars that were inflicted upon her during the Calamity. So she turned to the Void and offered up her body and those of all she'd slain.

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Edda's storyline with Avere is a fun one. Most certainly an attempt at Necromancy, although a very butchered one because Avere's head was severed from his body... meaning he had no body to return life to. Just a head. This is where Edda began sifting through the crypt of Tam-Tara in search of the perfect host for her husband to be. Now the only two sure-fire methods we know of to raise the dead are Thaumaturgy and Alchemy. Edda's approach doesn't truly seem to match either one, but could be a mixture of both, or of some Void-depraved method, given the state of Avere's head...

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(03-12-2015, 07:49 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: It's been a long time since I did the main story, but I thought I recalled them stating that people needed to be buried properly because otherwise they rise as restless spirits.

Eorzea's preferred method is burial, although I seem to recall some mention of cremation somewhere? Couldn't find where though, so might just be in my head. Anyways! Burials! In Ul'dah the Order of Nald'thal (the THM's Guild) is responsible for performing the burial rites on all Ul'dahn citizens and sometimes those beyond. There's a 1.0 THM quest where you visit Limsa Lominsa attempting to sell graves. Yes, you heard right. Ultimately, it ends up being a marginal success, although most of Lominsans prefer to be buried at sea. Anyroad, after the massive death toll of the Calamity, Ul'dah's crypts are overflowing and most all dead people are now being buried in Drybone's Lichyard instead.

Now, it is heavily implied throughout 1.0 that leaving a dead body is a pretty bad thing and may result in revenants or ghouls taking over the form, such as Bockman who was sited earlier in the thread. However, this does not seem to happen all the time, so it may just be a rare occurance. Either way... bury your dead - just to be safe.

Faustigeant Wrote:What would you like done with the remains? He was not a citizen of Ul'dah. You will have to appeal to Arrzaneth Ossuary to make arrangements. I should think medical expenses and internment costs will come to upward of one and a half million gil. ...Then take his corpse out of here yourself. Leave it beyond the city walls, if you must. I'm sure the crows and the beetles will be happy to save you the cost of a burial. But whatever you do, do it quickly.

Damielliot Wrote:The cost of not burying the deceased is far greater than the cost of burying them. Those not properly returned to Hydaelyn are damned to spend an eternity wandering the wastes!

Corguevais Wrote:I am aware of what the scriptures teach, it's just... There is no money.

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Hope this helps! ^^

__________________
WEEEEEE ANOTHER EDIT FOLKS!
So I knew I'd seen cremation somewhere, so I went looking. Sure enough!

Liavinne Wrote:Oh, and by way of parting advice... get rid of Avere's head! Bury it, cremate it, do whatever the hells you like with it - but for gods' sakes, stop carrying it around! It's... It's just... Just get rid of it alright!?

So, cremation canon. And if we combine that quote with this one:

Damielliot Wrote:The cost of not burying the deceased is far greater than the cost of burying them. Those not properly returned to Hydaelyn are damned to spend an eternity wandering the wastes!

Well, I think we have a more full picture of what eventually happened to Avere's head. Well... that and the notes strewn around Tam-Tara tell us the head starts talking to her. Pretty sad and creepy! Check it out!

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Edda's Notes

Entry #1 Wrote:Scarcely a week has passed since we returned to the village, and already I cannot help thinking it was a mistake. There was a time when this place seemed just large enough. But having see the wider world, it all feels so insufferably confined that I often find myself struggling for breath. I know that it is the same for you, my love.
The only time I feel truly alive is when I am adventuring with you. We are as caged birds in this backwater. So long as we remain here, we will never spread our wings and soar. So let us take to the road and create a lifetime of wonderful memories together.

Entry #2 Wrote:I could not have hoped for a more romantic first visit to Mor Dhona. The crystals that pierce the landscape glowed in all their majesty, as if to celebrate our future together. And as we lazed by Silvertear Lake, watching the waves lapping at the shore, the sun took its leave behind the horizon, that we might enjoy a moment of intimacy.
"I want us to be together forever." You first said these words to me years ago, and you said them to me again tonight. I am so happy to be with you.

Entry #3 Wrote:You have been looking deathly pale of late. The scorching heat of Thanalan does not agree with you. You were never fond of hot climes, and it was a mistake to come here. Let us make for Coerthas, where the bracing air will put roses on your cheeks.

Entry #4 Wrote:I know, I know - It is not easy being without a body. I promise to find one for you, but you must have patience. You are my husband-to-be, and there is nothing I would not do for you, so please, have faith in me. Give me time, my love, and I shall make you whole again, as you make me.

Entry #5 Wrote:I am sorry to keep you waiting, my love, but we cannot afford to compromise--not where your new body is concerned. Ordinary adventurers die often enough, leaving their ordinary corpses, but if you are to be like Sounsyy we cannot settle for anything less than extraordinary.
But a strong body requires an equally strong soul--as I recently discovered. Now, you are probably worried that strong souls are rare, and so they are--but never fear, for we can create one ourselves! All we need is a plentiful supply of the weaker kind, and they are common indeed. Be patient just a little longer, my love, and all will be as you desire.

Entry #6 Wrote:With the nigh endless supply of bodies here, I will make you well again, my love. Then we shall be wed as man and wife, and forever be joined as the gods intended. Of course, it is only fitting that a proper ceremony be held, with guests in attendance. i will send out invitations to all our friends. They will be so happy for us, I have no doubt they will jump at the chance to part with their souls.

OHHHH ALSO! If you want to add on a whole other layer of emotional trauma to that whole storyline. The REASON Liavinne doesn't like Edda, is because SHE loved Avere! Avere was hittin' it with both women! /dramabomb.

Liavinne's Confession Part 1
Liavinne's Confession Part 2

RE: Necromancy, death, and the undead. - Warren Castille - 03-12-2015

Thanks a million, Champion. That explains why I couldn't find the god damned text citing the dead rising if not interred: It was in 1.0!

RE: Necromancy, death, and the undead. - Val - 03-12-2015

(03-12-2015, 12:37 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: Thanks a million, Champion. That explains why I couldn't find the god damned text citing the dead rising if not interred: It was in 1.0!

Yeah, thanks a lot Sounsyy!

I figure a lot of the information is in 1.0, which makes me wonder what other lore those of us that skipped it have missed out on.

Is there anything on the Lifestream/souls themselves? I imagine since it's called lifestream, it's much like FFVII's. Would that be a wrong assumption to make? What differentiates one's aether from their soul?

RE: Necromancy, death, and the undead. - Sounsyy - 03-12-2015

(03-12-2015, 10:35 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: Edit: Second theory: A soulless corpse might not be a pinhole, but it might be easier to control a dead body than it is to actually break through the barrier. We've seen through the THM questlines what voidsent possession looks like. Imagine that without a soul or a consciousness in the way to stop something malevolent from trying to control your body! Voidsent want to come through to Eorzea, but in lieu of that, why not do the next-best thing and just control something already here?

Also Warren, you are correct on this as well. Not just a theory. Lore!

Quote:Wind-up Dullahan
Voidsent dullahan are, in fact, shapeless entities who must first inhabit an inanimate host (such as a suit of armor) before gaining the ability to exert force upon the physical plane in which we reside. Luckily, the only thing inhabiting this wind-up contraption are manifold gears and rods.

Quote:Minute Mindflayer
Similar to voidsent dullahan, mindflayers also lack a corporeal form and must possess a host to be able to exert force on our realm. Whereas the dullahan, however, are limited to the possession of inorganic objects such as steel, mindflayers tend to prefer the dead as their vessels.

EDITED:

(03-12-2015, 12:42 PM)Val Wrote: Is there anything on the Lifestream/souls themselves? I imagine since it's called lifestream, it's much like FFVII's. Would that be a wrong assumption to make? What differentiates one's aether from their soul?

The Lifestream is exactly the same as the one in FFVII! So feel free to think of it as such.

There's a creation myth! In the beginning there was darkness, then came Light, and Hydaelyn was born. From the Light was birthed the Fae and Elementals and the Twelve Gods. But no other life could flourish on Light alone. So Llymlaen gave birth to serpent twins, Perykos and Thalaos, who from their mouths spewed forth the water of life, which filled the world. And from this fountain of water, Brother Time (Althyk) and Sister Fate (Nymeia) gave birth a great Wyrm as the fountain's keeper, and named Him, Midgardsormr. For this fountain of water was also the fountain of all life on Hydaelyn. So Midgardsormr was tasked with protecting the fountain of Silvertear from all Life which may one day wish to harness its power for themselves.

So yes, Silvertear Lake in Mor Dhona is the fountain of all life, aether, and water on the planet. The lake bears an ancient seal laid down by the Gods which cycles spent aether from this realm to the Aetherial Realm and back. (If you're familiar with the lore behind FFIX, think the Iifa Tree, same concept.) So when a person dies, their aether is violently torn from their body, returning to the land and eventually returning to the Lifestream, where it travels towards Silvertear Lake. Once it reaches the Lake, it drifts from this realm to the Aetherial Realm, where it will eventually return to this planet as new Life. That is the cycle of death and rebirth.

However, the soul, if improperly buried (as in no funeral rites) will seek to remain in this realm. So it may attach itself to the nearest object it can find. This is how we get Aetherially Enhanced weapons, soulbinding, Soul Stones, etc. If it does not do this, it may wind up into a soulkin or revenant, Will-o'-the-Wisp, fireflies, etc. In proper funeral rites, the soul passes on into Thal's Realm (Heaven) where it will remain forever.*

EDIT: *Forever, unless, called upon in one of two instances! The 50 ALC quest wherein Severain discovers an alchemical potion to resummon the soul of a dead person. This requires very high quality potions of the essences of being as well as possessing an item the soul in question is bound to. The bound item, in the case of the 50 ALC quest is a wand, acts as a lodestone (much like an aetheryte) for the soul to return to.

The second method... is being summoned like a primal. Boom. Said it. With enough aether (crystals) to fully construct a new corporeal form, a soul might be recalled from Thal's Realm through fervent prayer and resummoned in a new body of aether. However, as the soul is not truly part of this realm, it cannot persist and maintain form unless it feeds on a constant supply of aether. Such was likely the same problem with why Severain was only able to recall his lost love for a few brief moments. His concoction worked, but the soul lacked the aether necessary to sustain itself in the physical plane.

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Lore Text on Aether
Aether, Lifestream, Teleportation Lore

Erik Wrote:I shall tell you yet again of the study of aether. As I laboriously explained, aether is not only the source of all magicks, but also the fount of all life. Yet despite its ubiquity, it remains imperceptible to the senses of man. When a living thing dies, the aether comprising its life is released. It has been learned that when this discharge takes place, a portion of that aether remains, lingering in the physical world. No doubt you have come across aetherial crystallizations in the course of your travels. All scholars now agree that these are the physical manifestations of great concentrations of aether.

I have a theory, however, that they are not the only such manifestations. Allow me to give you an example even you can understand - that of ghosts, spirits, disembodied souls. Apparitions of the deceased come back to haunt and generally unnerve us? False! These are nothing more than the luminescent glow of aether in the atmosphere. It is possible, though highly unlikely, that you are asking yourself why a portion of the aether remains.

Right, well, the amount of aether that can shift between the physical and aetherial realms in any given instant is limited. I call this the aetherial threshold. Any aether present in excess of that threshold is left behind. The more violent or dramatic the loss of life, the greater the amount of inner aether released to take the form of crystals or remain imperceptibly in the atmosphere. And you surely recollect the scene I identified as the most apt to produce such violent deaths? On the field of battle! It stands to reason, therefore, that through the aetherial measurement of such sites, I will be able to reconstruct details of the wars waged upon them. And that, Sounsyy, is why this military historian has a deeply vested interest in the subject of aether.

Erik Wrote:My dear, poor Sounsyy. What you do not know about Silvertear Falls could fill a book. And has - multiple times over, I'm sure.

TRY ME, ERIK!!

Erik cont. Wrote:Since ancient times, the Falls and the region of Mor Dhona in which they are located have been believed to be the seat of a great spiritual energy, as less advanced peoples are wont to call it. So old are these beliefs that the tomb of Xande himself, the first emperor of Allag, was built deep beneath the surface of Mor Dhona, in the hope that the mystical power which resided under the lake would raise him from the dead. Oh, there are any number of legends and myths surrounding the place. I think the oldest and most widely known would have to be that of the dragon of the Falls. I do not claim to be a folklorist, but I can certainly provide the general tale.

There was the birth of Althyk, god of time among the Twelve, and in turn, His younger sister Nymeia, goddess of fate. And then there was water, and through it Silvertear FAlls came to be at the center of all that was. Here was the source not only of water, but the fount of all magic as well. Now, when water came into being, so too did the great dragon Midgardsormr. Brother Time and Sister Fate, fearing the Falls might fall into the hands of evil, ordered Midgardsormr their protector and warden. Much later, with the arrival of man, would Midgardsormr be worshiped as the guardian deity of Silvertear Falls.

Have you been to Silvertear Falls, Sounsyy? Or are you as untraveled as you are unread? Have you gazed upon the enormous dragon corpse, frozen as a statue with wings outspread? If you have, you have gazed upon Midgardsormr. That tragedy is but ten years old. After invading my home of Ala Mhigo, the Garleans launched a fleet of airships led by the monstrosity Agrius. They flew for Silvertear Falls, knowing them to harbor the greatest concentration of aether. And then, as those horrific instruments of evil loomed overhead, casting the dark shadow of death, the surface of the lake suddenly parted and burst skyward as Midgardsormr emerged to defend his waters.

The battle between Midgardsormr and the Agrius has since come to be known as the Battle of Silvertear Skies. The dragon fought with divine strength and purpose, and after a fierce and grueling struggle, succeeded in bringing down the airship. As it fell into the lake, the impact caused the ceruleum onboard to detonate, and Midgardsormr was killed, his corpse charred black in the conflagration. The structure formed by the wreckage of the Agrius and the entangled remains of Midgardsormr is now called the Keeper of the Lake. For many religious and mythological enthusiasts, it stands as proof of the existence of the gods. For most people, however, it servers as a grim reminder of the horrific, dare I say deicidal, power of Garlemald.

RE: Necromancy, death, and the undead. - Shoshopu - 03-12-2015

I was reading through this thread wondering, "When is Sounsyy gonna show up?" before I opened my mouth. Hooray, massive lore dumps!

re: Edda and her methods, since she was a healer I was always under the impression that... white magic could also be used for 'necromancy'. My FC has discussed this idea several times and it's mostly headcanon and I only remember snippets of our conversations so I just have some general ideas to throw out there

She could explain it better but another person in our FC is really, really into Amdapor and its lore and finds it interesting that the Lost City Amdapor is called "the dead city", but is actually not dead at all- every surface of the city is covered with mold, fungus, moss, what have you. Even that creepy Goobbbue boss looks like it should be dead, but it's kept animate somehow- presumably by the mold? Possibly a side effect of the big white magic fallout that wiped out Amdapor to begin with?

Also, just... the idea of overhealing a corpse to the point of it being reanimated as a lifeless zombie (since its soul is gone) doesn't seem like too far fetched of a concept to me if the conjurer in question knew what they were doing. Since Edda was a conjurer herself (she was her party's healer and had a staff so I'm assuming she wasn't a SCH; only other option would be a THM who would try healing with just Cure I or something??) ... but I have no idea what she was like in the 1.0 quests, maybe she was a THM then if you had to stop her from learning necromancy or whatever, as Liandri mentioned on page one...

also re: the zombies in Thanalan, does it annoy anyone else that all the undead enemies are Hyuran? I would have thought Ul'dah and Sil'dih would be mostly Lalafell...? I mean, with some confirmed Hyur living there I suppose (cough, cough), but still mostly Lalafell. Even all the supposedly Belah'dian statues we see don't depict anything like a Lalafell, even though all the names of the rulers and such definitely seem Lalafellin... now I'm off on a tangent sorry

RE: Necromancy, death, and the undead. - Sounsyy - 03-12-2015

(03-12-2015, 12:51 PM)Shoshopu Wrote: also re: the zombies in Thanalan, does it annoy anyone else that all the undead enemies are Hyuran? I would have thought Ul'dah and Sil'dih would be mostly Lalafell...? I mean, with some confirmed Hyur living there I suppose (cough, cough), but still mostly Lalafell. Even all the supposedly Belah'dian statues we see don't depict anything like a Lalafell, even though all the names of the rulers and such definitely seem Lalafellin... now I'm off on a tangent sorry

So the statue that you see off the side of Highbridge is actually that of Thal, not one of Belah'dia's rulers. The ruins found of the Invisible City are not actually a city at all, but an extravagant tomb for the dead. Basically... a city for dead people. Hence why there's a giant statue of Thal, keeper of the dead, outside. As for the zombies in Southern Thanalan, surrounding those ancient ruins - well, lore tells us that most of those are actually from the initial Hyur migration to Eorzea, around 800 years ago. The Hyur attempted to conquer Belah'dia, but Belah'dia prevailed over them. Possibly by using very similar methods that the Ul'dahns did during the War of the Sisters to conquer Sil'dih.

Quote:Albin the Ashen
When the Hyuran tribe came to Thanalan some 800 years ago, Albin the Ashen was at the head of one of the columns. Then-native Belah'dians rose against the invaders and prevailed, as history records. Albin was but one of many slain in the abortive conquest, yet his mortal coil still roams the land in search of vengeance.

Quote:#19 - The Invisible City
Buried under nearly a malm of solid rock, if it not for a gaping rent torn open by the Calamity, these ancient ruins may have gone undiscovered for another thousand summers. Scholars sent to Highbridge to study the site are currently of a mind that the structures are not a city, but in fact the tomb of one Lalafuto IV, famed sultan of Belah'dia.