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The How To Help Newbie RPers In Making Connections Forum - Printable Version

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RE: The How To Help Newbie RPers In Making Connections Forum - ArmachiA - 03-27-2015

(03-27-2015, 12:20 AM)Graeham Ridgefield Wrote: I feel that it's also well worth noting that many social circles within FFXIV's role-playing community have a completely different 'feel' to what many - myself included - may be used to after role-playing elsewhere.

I often feel that my efforts to reach out to other role-players are overlooked or brushed aside because I don't have much interest in lacing my every word with sugar, kissing up to 'popular' role-players or mindlessly keeping up to date with whatever the current 'insert gif 4 ur charz fav pasta' type of thread is.

This is me.
Graeham we should be friends, why aren't we friends XD

RE: The How To Help Newbie RPers In Making Connections Forum - Cato - 03-27-2015

(03-27-2015, 12:39 AM)ArmachiA Wrote:
(03-27-2015, 12:20 AM)Graeham Ridgefield Wrote: I feel that it's also well worth noting that many social circles within FFXIV's role-playing community have a completely different 'feel' to what many - myself included - may be used to after role-playing elsewhere.

I often feel that my efforts to reach out to other role-players are overlooked or brushed aside because I don't have much interest in lacing my every word with sugar, kissing up to 'popular' role-players or mindlessly keeping up to date with whatever the current 'insert gif 4 ur charz fav pasta' type of thread is.

This is me.
Graeham we should be friends, why aren't we friends XD

Feel free to poke me in-game sometime! I'm not online right now and I live in Europe but I'm online fairly often when not distracted by work/essays. I find myself agreeing with a lot of your posts though, so I'm definitely open to extending the hand of friendship!

RE: The How To Help Newbie RPers In Making Connections Forum - Tiergan - 03-27-2015

I have to admit that I'm a little frustrated. My main point in all of this has been if you're going to post in a newbie's Let's-RP Thread on the Making Connections Forum:

1) Post your timezone and availability so they can actually find you in-game or

2) Coordinate with them and pick a day so that both of you can actually meet up.

However, a lot of the responses I've been seeing harp on about how it's the responsibility of the thread-posters to make the effort to reach out and how the onus is on them to actually do their part in hunting folks down for RP. I agree and I get this sentiment. I earnestly do. It IS their responsibility to meet you halfway, and as someone who has been some form of guild leadership in nearly every MMO I have ever played, no one hates spoonfeeding or handholding more than I do. Especially when someone feels entitled to it.

However, if all anyone ever posts is "My name is Tiergan Vashir. Feel free to hit me up in game sometime!" and literally nothing else. It is crazy hard for these people to actually do their part in reaching out and finding folks in game when that's all the information you have on hand. Failing to reach out to someone doesn't necessarily mean laziness or someone not meeting you half way. It might mean they just can't find you period.

Like I mentioned already, before real life decided to crush me and rob me of most of my freetime, I tried to start a plot that involved me hunting down 50+ people knowing ONLY their character names. Coming from a position where I definitely wanted to find all of these people and was constantly going through a list searching for every single person for literally a month or more and STILL not being able to find some people -- it is very, very hard. Sometimes even when I knew their schedules or timezones, it was still tricky. That experience was actually how I came to realise just how difficult it is for new people to actually make use of their Making Connections threads when most (but not all) of the responses basically amount to: "I'd love to RP with you! My character is Tiergan Vashir! If you see me in game, feel free to send me a tell!"

At best, their option is just to PM you on these forums because it doesn't involve logging in at various times hoping that you just happen to have a similar timezone/schedule as they do. And that PM will inevitably probably involve them asking you when you're generally online and what timezone you're in anyway - so we might as well just either post it in their thread and put your money where your mouth is or send them a PM with the information.

By providing that info, we're not suddenly doing all the work for the newbies. The new folks still have to take the information we provide and find us. We're just making it way easier for them.

[[Edit: Cut and changed some of the post that I felt might have been a little too aggressive.]]

RE: The How To Help Newbie RPers In Making Connections Forum - Nara'to - 03-27-2015

I wish to give some feedback concerning how difficult it is for someone new like myself to find roleplay.  I basically give up, I can't handle my character not being acknowledged anymore.  I break down in tears because being ignored hurts.  Not everyone is busy and there are always plenty of people standing around looking for RP.  But I digress, I am here to give my feedback and hope it can help others in the future.

I am new to roleplaying in general.  I fell in love with it not long back and wish to enjoy it with others.  Sadly my experience shows the same thing every time I attempt it.  If you aren't part of a clique, close circle of friends or know someone then you are pretty much screwed.  Trying to emote to people or generally dropping hints you are looking only to be ignored or have your character never be acknowledged just hurts so much.

I understand people have lives, there is nothing wrong with that.  But how can new roleplayers enjoy it when they are left out because people close themselves off from newcomers?  This server seems filled with that type.  Most people won't think it is due to many factors but it's how I see it.  I just can't handle it anymore and the pain is not worth it.

I apologize for how I come off and hope that my post can be seen as something that can be used to improve upon the situation rather than something for people to argue over.

I also know Linkshells and this site exist.  Sadly every Linkshell I join is full of people who have their own circles or are devoid of any communication.  Even here I have been able to snag a few people to add to my friends list.  Yet again though the attempt is in vain due to these people always being busy or never being on.

I am not trying to whine or judge.  I am only giving my experience and input.  Please forgive my rudeness and know that someone who really loved this world of roleplaying has given up on even trying to do so in this game.  You can only be ignored or pushed aside so long before the pain is too much.

I've said my peace and will leave you all to comment as you please, I will not return to this thread.  Just don't judge this post harshly, I'm just hurt is all. I'm not looking for hand holding. I've put in effort to meet people halfway and tried many ways to find roleplay. They have all failed for me.

RE: The How To Help Newbie RPers In Making Connections Forum - Aya - 03-27-2015

Nara'to, its hard to meet new people.  I understand that well, and I've been through the same challenges.  My best advice is simple: talk to people.  Don't emote about being approachable, approach people instead.  If you stand alone emote about being approachable, and no one approaches you, then no one in the entire situation is approaching anyone else, in this you're no less guilty than those you're frustrated with. 

You just have to bite the bullet and actually approach someone to broach conversation.  You may have to try several times to have any success.  You may run into someone who isn't friendly, who isn't interested, or is afk, or who simply misses that you're trying to interact with them (especially a problem in a crowded area).  OOC whispers can be helpful in this regard, to let someone know you're trying to approach them.  But, the bottom line is that there are is an absolute abundance of RPers on the server, most of whom are happy to meet new people.  Getting your foot in the door is the hard part, just as it is when trying to make connections in real life.  There's simply no substitute for putting your foot in as many doors as you can bear until you find the right ones.

RE: The How To Help Newbie RPers In Making Connections Forum - Tiergan - 03-27-2015

I'll also say that if you were trying to emote in a place like the Quicksand where there can sometimes be a lot of scrolling chat - it is SUPER easy for people to miss the emotes, which is why an OOC whisper of "((Heyoo, I'd like to RP with you and not sure if you missed my emote. Is this a bad time?))" can help a lot.

Also, if they're in a group conversation of 4/5+ people, that's generally when they are probably scanning their chat logs for the names of the other people in the conversation and might have a hard time catching someone emoting at them. Toss in an active linkshell or FC chat and it can get even harder.

I've personally emoted at folks a lot of times before only to discover they completely missed it. Like Aya said, an OOC whisper can help A LOT.

RE: The How To Help Newbie RPers In Making Connections Forum - Cato - 03-27-2015

Nara'to's situation isn't an isolated case. Many other role-players have expressed in the past that they've endured similar experiences. I think at this point we can safely assume that whilst in some cases it may be a simple case of people not noticing that they're being emoted at that certainly doesn't apply to everybody.

As I've pointed out in other threads there's a number of people on this site who really do give those perceived as 'outsiders' a frigid response, ironically often after going out of their way to point out in threads such as this one just how eager they are to forge new contacts and make new friends.

Many of these same posters will then go out of their way to point out how much they miss role-playing with people they interact with day in, day out in various threads that one could easily consider as 'baiting' for compliments and attention.

So, yeah, let's not pretend as if it's a giant misunderstanding. Far too many people have come here stating the exact same thing only to be conveniently brushed under the rug.

Sure, you can argue that people can push and push until they find someone to interact with them but if someone endures multiple bad experiences they're liable to just give up which in turn lessens the amount of fresh blood trickling into the community.

...and yes, I'm well aware that nobody is obligated to interact with someone else's character!

RE: The How To Help Newbie RPers In Making Connections Forum - ArmachiA - 03-27-2015

It can be hard to get into an established or popular group. I know I have even been blacklisted on this site for disagreeing with a popular member before (Because the site actually lets you know when you've been blacklisted by saying you've been thrown on some invisible buddylist). *Shrug* I understand how hard it can be if you're on the outside.

I know a lot of it is people being shy and expecting people to come to them, but I also know that's not always the case.

RE: The How To Help Newbie RPers In Making Connections Forum - Aya - 03-27-2015

(03-27-2015, 02:40 AM)Graeham Ridgefield Wrote: So, yeah, let's not pretend as if it's a giant misunderstanding. Far too many people have come here stating the exact same thing only to be conveniently brushed under the rug.

Sure, you can argue that people can push and push until they find someone to interact with them but if someone endures multiple bad experiences they're liable to just give up which in turn lessens the amount of fresh blood trickling into the community.
Just going to say that I disagree entirely Smile

Put your foot in the door, do your best to try to talk people!  Try not to get discouraged.  It is always hard to make friends.  This is true everywhere.  But there are plenty out there just waiting to be found, and once you make a couple, you'll make many more much more quickly!

RE: The How To Help Newbie RPers In Making Connections Forum - Cato - 03-27-2015

(03-27-2015, 03:17 AM)Aya Wrote:
(03-27-2015, 02:40 AM)Graeham Ridgefield Wrote: So, yeah, let's not pretend as if it's a giant misunderstanding. Far too many people have come here stating the exact same thing only to be conveniently brushed under the rug.

Sure, you can argue that people can push and push until they find someone to interact with them but if someone endures multiple bad experiences they're liable to just give up which in turn lessens the amount of fresh blood trickling into the community.
Just going to say that I disagree entirely Smile

Put your foot in the door, do your best to try to talk people!  Try not to get discouraged.  It is always hard to make friends.  This is true everywhere.  But there are plenty out there just waiting to be found, and once you make a couple, you'll make many more much more quickly!

I think you're misunderstanding and unintentionally just stating things that are rather obvious to many. I'm not a particularly shy guy. I have been putting my foot in the door yet so far outside of my FC it has been immensely difficult to get any consistent role-play with both strangers and people on this site who are explicitly claiming to be extending their arms in welcome and then shoving people away when they are approached in-game.

I've also had no issue getting role-play in other MMO's though similar problems have arisen there. The difference is a lot of people don't pretend as if it isn't happening.

I mean, the evidence is there - the Miqo'te above is far from the first person to come to this site and state that he has an issue getting involved with stuff. At some point that ceases to be a case of 'try, try, again' and more to do with a need to address the rot that exists within the community.

RE: The How To Help Newbie RPers In Making Connections Forum - Aya - 03-27-2015

(03-27-2015, 03:23 AM)Graeham Ridgefield Wrote: I think you're misunderstanding and unintentionally just stating things that are rather obvious to many.

...

At some point that ceases to be a case of 'try, try, again' and more to do with a need to address the rot that exists within the community.
I have not, and I still (quite simply) disagree entirely.  My assessment of our community is diametrically at odds with yours, and that's just all there is to it.  Outside of these forums I hear the exact opposite of what you're expressing: I hear comments about how wonderful our community is, how welcoming, nice, and helpful it is.  I hear from players so happy they switched servers, and from those brand new to the game who feel it is a breath of fresh air to have so many RPers around. 

I can't comment on why your experience has been so different, I really have no idea.  I am sorry it has been, and I'm glad to hear that your FC has at least made things better!  There are certainly anecdotal examples of some of the things you've mentioned, and I've observed what I'd consider negative trends in certain groups, and in certain FCs at times too, but that's what happens in a community with this many people.  Its not all lollipops and rainbows, but overall its a really great place for RP!

So my advice is exactly the same as it was: keep trying! Be optimistic! Be persistent!  We're out there!  Fun is just waiting to happen!

RE: The How To Help Newbie RPers In Making Connections Forum - ArmachiA - 03-27-2015

Aya, you're kinda... part of the popular crowd though, your experience would be VERY different.

All I'm saying.

RE: The How To Help Newbie RPers In Making Connections Forum - Cato - 03-27-2015

You're perfectly free to disagree, Aya! I'm not denying that the community is useful or pleasant - I'm specifically referring to toxic elements that exist - sometimes among those who are active, popular and post here frequently.

Yes, a lot of people do find what they seek. That's great! Others, however, do not - and in some cases the blame isn't on their shoulders. Like I mentioned earlier, the Miqo'te's post isn't an isolated case. I don't expect you to have caught all the other similar posts over the last couple of years - but they're there on this site somewhere.

RE: The How To Help Newbie RPers In Making Connections Forum - Tiergan - 03-27-2015

While I don't disagree that sometimes it's all about making the right kind of effort (I've had some awkward experiences that I'll just leave out for now :V) - I also agree that we shouldn't really be assuming that everyone who is having an issue isn't making that effort and leave it at that.

Also, this is going to sound slightly derp, but he's also male miqo'te and we're basically a dime a dozen, which makes it even harder to get attention sometimes. Add on the fact that he seems to be shy and has a shy character and it can be triply hard.

RE: The How To Help Newbie RPers In Making Connections Forum - Aya - 03-27-2015

(03-27-2015, 03:29 AM)ArmachiA Wrote: Aya, you're kinda... part of the popular crowd though, your experience would be VERY different.

All I'm saying.
And I always was?  I was never entirely new to the RPC, with all of my active RP friends having quit, my FC having fallen apart, and no real idea where to begin or where to go to find RP?  I was close to quitting because the game just hadn't been fun for a little while.  I couldn't find RP in Gridania, and I didn't really care for Ul'dah.

I met new people first on the forum, and then in-game.  I did have to make the hard decision to cut my ties to Gridania and move on to Ul'dah, something that today I do not regret at all (though I hope it is less necessary).  I pushed my character onto a new trajectory, and put myself in position to meet new people on a regular basis.  I did not simply leap onto the forums and find myself blessed with a bunch of friends.  Instead I did exactly what I am suggesting: I approached people, I talked to them, I tried again and again to make friends.  Sometimes it doesn't work, even now every night I RP at the Quick Sand I'll have people dismiss Aya with no desire to interact.  That's just life... I don't know how else to put it Smile

That said, I think the majority of people that I RP with in a given week are entirely new to me.  There are definitely recurring characters in my casual RP, people I know now from a year of interaction, but you'd probably be surprised how little time I get to have with these friends, and how much I spend with people I've never met before.  That's less so at the moment with so much of my RP being centered around Verad's plot, but this is an anomaly for my time in FF RP.  And the wonderful thing is that terrific and fun people are joining up fresh for FF RP every single day.  Its a beautiful, wonderful thing.

Graeham Ridgefield Wrote:Others, however, do not - and in some cases the blame isn't on their shoulders.
Tiergan Wrote:I also agree that we shouldn't really be assuming that everyone who is having an issue isn't making that effort and leave it at that.
I cast no blame! I am only offering advice.  The onus falls unfairly on new people, that's just an unfortunate fact of social interaction.

By the way, for a while when I first started to RP in Ul'dah I even did exactly what Nara'to described! He's probably done an even better job of it than I did. The Quick Sand was a pretty sleepy place back then.. and.. it never did any good for me either. It was only when I started to approach people more frequently that things started to get better. And I do realize it won't work for everyone, but I think until you've given it a good try, you really don't know what the possibilities are. Social anxiety is a very real thing (I certainly feel it too), and some of our initial attempts are clumsy and awkward. But, as the saying goes, nothing ventured, nothing gained.