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+--- Thread: Cliques, Popularity, and Positivity (/showthread.php?tid=11243)
RE: Cliques, Popularity, and Positivity - Maril - 04-23-2015
I quite agree, Cliques aren't bad when you manage them well - thinking from a guildleaders perspective here. I actively make shake-em-up events in my own guild where, unbeknownst to my members, I try to put them in situations where they get to roleplay with people that I've noticed they usually do not RP with. When they go bad it does spark a lot of problems though, and can have some nasty results like collapsing in on themselves in a mass-burnout, isolating them from other players for so long that once someone stops playing they feel lost, heck it can even cause smaller guild splits. If you can't introduce someone new to a clique then that's a sure sign that there's a problem which needs to be adressed in some regard. It's difficult being a new player in a guild and that's something I personally have a big focus on, and sometimes it only takes a little bit to solve.Â
I also think that cliques are completely unavoidable in RP communities, and there's always going to be bad ones around as well. But trying to do anything about it on a community perspective is.. Really I would just stick to making sure things are fine in the FC you're in. Don't worry about breaking in too much, I'd even say if you try too hard to break into a clique you may end up with less results than if you were to just go about your stuff - sometimes new cliques can form around you where you're in. And you might not really notice it's a clique either, which is also a thing for a lot of people. Â
Something I've also noticed a bit recently and - I really don't want to step on peoples toes - is the amount of talking people do about this supposed one big popular group of posters that exist on the RPC. I won't lie, even I have been under the assumption that such a group might exist but, after being here for so long I can more clearly see that there isn't just one big group, and actually some of the most popular posters don't seem to interact outside of the RPC. At least for what is visible. Anyways, my point with this is that the more you talk about and big up this group of populars, the more power you actually add to it and the more you give it the possibility to actually manifest. I know not giving a fuck can be hard, but that's really the only way that something like that really can get solved.. When you stop regarding those groups with awe/hate/starstruck-like levels of respect/upsetness they automatically become just regular people that post, sometimes a lot. It's also something I can imagine most of the targets for this attention are wanting to feel like. I by no means consider myself popular, but I've had whispers from people recently that - whilst nice, good intentions and all - creeped me out a little bit because these whispers seemed to suggest they'd seen me on the RPC a lot and placed me on a high pedestal because of it. To which I'm kind of like "let me down". It's not nice when others put you in a place where they assume you can't be reached.Â
I used to be really shy about posting here, I still am to some extend due to certain experiences, but it changed it for me when I stopped thinking that "Oh I can't jump in here because I'm just a new person and no one knows me" etc. Now I actually take comfort in the fact that most of my posts do not get responses, they sometimes get's +1's, and I've gotten just generally confident in that I can voice my opinion to some extend about some things. Which is very nice because I love talking about RP xD Like I have and I could go on about it for six hours in a skypecall. I'd encourage new people to post more anyday, just as long as they're nice about it and don't see lack of responses as the community ignoring you.
And Tiergan, I'm with you on fleeing from reputations. I was selected as a community ambassador in my past game, and I was very vocal about defending the server I was playing on (the only RP one for EU'ers at the time) when it went under the threat of getting closed down. Despite a 100-page thread it was shut down in the end, and I got shifted onto a server where there apparently was a lot of people waiting to go "HA-HA" at me. It got too much and despite leading a guild there, I passed on the leadership and left for FFXIV. I loved being seen as someone that people could PM for help, but the other side of the coin is something that makes me not want to do that ever again. It's horrible when you get driven away from something you enjoy.
RE: Cliques, Popularity, and Positivity - Val - 04-23-2015
(04-23-2015, 03:00 AM)Meena Wrote:(04-23-2015, 02:57 AM)Lacey Orwell Wrote: I have to agree with Faye about the disliking the villainising of the "popular" people. As far as I can tell all the "popular" people generally organise events and are more extroverted role players who go about role playing with others in the community.
As for the rp event that Hotaru mentioned, generally I keep personal story plots to group chat since, for the most part, I don't actively want to involve people or make people who want to involve themselves feel left out. My last major arc with Lacey involved some potentially lore bending/breaking events and I really had no interest in debating lore with a random role player who may walk up.Â
For me, my "clique" is a group I feel comfortable role playing with. As an introverted person with trust issues, I don't feel comfortable interacting with a large amount of people or having them involved in my plots, especially with the constant lore arguing I've seen here and experienced in game. I'd rather have my role play be enjoyable and fun for everyone involved rather then spending hours debating lore.Â
I don't know if other role players feel this way but I think other role players need to be mindful that some people aren't comfortable with huge social groups or don't take easily to strangers like myself.
I think thats fine having a group you're comfortable with - but having massive events in public places and making others feel they aren't welcome are two separate issues.
As Faye already pointed out, I can't honestly recall any time the company has had any sort of massive RP event in a public place. If you want to discuss this matter privately, I'd be more than happy to do so. I'd prefer to take it up that way than publicly on a forum that is meant to spread positivity
RE: Cliques, Popularity, and Positivity - Faye - 04-23-2015
I think cliques are inevitable if, for no other reason, than that it's typically the nature of role-play. Most of us role-play to find friends, lovers, family, enemies, allies, rivals, etc. for our character. To get these relationships, we have to role-play with these people more than once to establish a bond and a story. And often, we want our characters to have these relationships for the sake of finding other characters to ride out the storyline we have planned for our character alongside him or her. These become the people we role-play with most often, and therefore likely get to know best OOC. If every major plot point in your character's life was endured with a different stranger by his/her side each time rather than people your character actually knows and has interacted with on one more occasion, your character's story arc may still remain overall the same, but I think it would feel shallow knowing that no one else go to see the majority of your character's story IC or OOC to share the experience with you.
RE: Cliques, Popularity, and Positivity - Ludivine Goultard - 04-23-2015
I've always tried to treat cliques as a mirror of RL. Just how many of us here have time to be social butterflies and meet someone new every day? How many of us -wants- to do that? From what I've seen and heard around the game and in forums, a lot of RPers have social difficulties and have only a small group of friends in the real world that we actively communicate with. I don't think it's wrong if the world in-game is like that for us too.
I've heard a lot of promotion of this whole 'IC and OOC line' thing, but at the heart of it, not all of us are able to switch into a polar opposite of ourselves as soon as we log in and be able to confidently welcome strangers into our circles of people we trust. Kudos to those who manage to do it though, because as much as it can be frightening to have a stranger try to RP and become a part of what we want to cherish and protect, I'm sure the people trying to involve themselves are feeling similar emotions.
I'm just glad that this forum has developed so well to help people find like-minded RPers. A big thank you for those who commit their time into doing that. Ultimately, I think that anyone who tries to blame someone else for having a group of friends and wanting to hold onto that stability in their life should just try to keep a cool head. Just think about how you would feel IRL.
RE: Cliques, Popularity, and Positivity - OttoVann - 04-23-2015
Im willing to be popular so that others may rest.
RE: Cliques, Popularity, and Positivity - Faye - 04-23-2015
(04-23-2015, 04:11 AM)OttoVann Wrote: Im willing to be popular so that others may rest.
Otto #1, vote for Otto, President of the RPC 2015
RE: Cliques, Popularity, and Positivity - Nebbs - 04-23-2015
I am not one for long posts or reading long posts it's a dyslexia thing and many many years living with it. So being brief..
People will group together over a many things, and that is all well and good. The downside for me is when they start to judge those outside their self created set of norms. There is also the reverse where those outside see a collective and judge it based on assumptions.
Answer.. look for similarities and positives not the differences and negative. Focus on what brings us together and not what pushed us apart.
We are all part of the RP clique for a start!
We are all part of the FFXIV & Balmung clique!
... and so on.
Personally, I play to RP and the game is just something to-do in the gaps. If there was no RP I would not be here. For a lot of times I feel lonely I don't feel I am part of any clique and hostly I tend to be the one who goes for those people on the fringes to get them involved.Â
What does work for me is offering to help people, listening to their ideas and just making yourself available. That way you meet people and make friends. Though exclusive partnership RP while having its up side also can mean many people are "lost" to that (I have been there myself and don't see anything wrong with it).
I will happily not run roulette and daily tribes to come help someone RP and the odd dungeon, just hit me up I don't bite and I can adapt to many styles and stories. Or just for a chat.
RE: Cliques, Popularity, and Positivity - SicketySix - 04-23-2015
I certainly would not say I was popular or in a clique on the forums until a few days ago. Apparently when you agree with Warren Castille on a heated discussion on the forums, you get thrown into the "popular crowd" by all the people you disagree with.
So thanks for elevating me to stardom, oh Warren buddy!
RE: Cliques, Popularity, and Positivity - Oscare - 04-23-2015
Cliques and popularity happens. Wanna know why?
Because there are real people with real personalities behind the screen. Of course like minded individuals will clump together. But that's okay. There's no reason to panic over not being in the clique.Â
I can't really add anymore to this post that hasn't already been said.
RE: Cliques, Popularity, and Positivity - Alothia - 04-23-2015
Cliques aren't bad, as they provide a sense of community and home to RPers.
Popularity isn't bad as long as you use it as a medium for good. it's like anything else.
Positivity is something that I think we have all needed a heavy dose of in the past couple of days.
I guess I'm part of the "old guard" here. I've been playing since 1.0, and have taken a couple of breaks along the way.
In 1.0, I was well known, but I wouldn't say I was popular. I had a longstanding working RP relationships with some of the other linkshells, went and was involved in other people's events, and tried to foster relationships within the community. My linkshell was a little unconventional. We were known for our members being random and spastic, but it worked for us. We weren't always like that, though, and we did have many events that we were involved in that were serious and brought about character development.
In the interim between 1.0 and 2.0, there was a lot of RP and RP discussion here on the RPC. Everyone was meeting everyone new, and there was a fantastic sense of community. But as the launch got closer, tensions grew higher. (It's a lot like what the RPC is going through now).
When 2.0 hit, RP thrived for me for a time, and then some personal issues pushed me away from the game. I'm finally back, and find that RP is a little difficult to find, but there are a lot of events that encourage people to show up. I've attended some of these, and I think they're awesome...it's just a little difficult to get lost in the crowd.
If anything, I think that opening smaller events is probably a good thing to foster a sense of community. Walking into a giant event is really intimidating for a new person who doesn't know anyone. It's intimidating to me, and I pretty much know what I'm doing.
I don't really know where I'm going with this rant. Just...realize that popular people aren't to blame. Cliques aren't to blame. Scale of events...might be to blame. I think we all just need to reach out more. And be happy about it. Don't take any of it as a personal attack. Use it to better your habits, not bring you down.
RE: Cliques, Popularity, and Positivity - g0ne - 04-23-2015
(04-23-2015, 08:47 AM)Alothia Wrote: Positivity is something that I think we have all needed a heavy dose of in the past couple of days.
Ooh! Ooh!
Pick me!! May I try and spread positivity?! Pick me! Pick me! :3
Pick me, I say!!
(Right now I feel like Benny from the Lego Movie going SPACESHIP! SPACESHIP! SPACESHIP!)
RE: Cliques, Popularity, and Positivity - Sophia_Grave - 04-23-2015
It makes me sad that stuff like this has to be said at all. Every one of these threads that pop up after whatever weekly argument are essentially 'How to be decent to other people 101'. (Not that I don't support this, I pretty much agree 100% Faye)
RE: Cliques, Popularity, and Positivity - No Longer Exists - 04-23-2015
I am skeptical about this topic, given how the rant thread became a colossal waste of time.
However, I am yet again the example against the notion that cliques, popularity, etc are worthy of being demonized. As such, I feel I should at least sound off once on this subject. Understand, dear reader, that because of yesterday's nonsense, even I am reluctant to engage in discussions at this point and I LOVE to talk. At any rate, on to the point.
To summarize my ramblings as directly as possible:
1> STOP ASSUMING PEOPLE ARE IGNORING YOU OR BEING ELITIST. UNDERSTAND THAT THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO THEIR OWN AGENDA AND THEIR CHARACTER'S PERSONAL CHOICES ON WHO THEY ASSOCIATE WITH.
2> IF YOUR CHARACTER IS PASSIVE, EXPECT TO BE PASSED OVER IN LARGE RP SCENES OR EVENTS. THERE IS A -LOT- OF STUFF GOING ON AND IT IS UNFAIR TO EXPECT EVERYONE TO NOTICE YOU HIDING IN THE CORNER.
3> DO NOT ASSUME THAT YOUR PARTICULAR CHARACTER CONCEPT WILL BE WIDELY ACCEPTED BY EVERYONE AROUND YOU. EVERYONE HAS THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE, JUST LIKE YOU, HOW TO PLAY, WHO TO PLAY WITH, AND WHAT IS ENJOYABLE. RESPECT EACH OTHER'S PERSONAL SPACE AND CHERISH THE ONES WHO THINK LIKE YOU, FEEL LIKE YOU, AND ACCEPT YOUR CONCEPT. THEY -ARE- OUT THERE, YOU -WILL- FIND THEM. CHILLAX.
4> CLIQUES EXIST, DEAL WITH IT. A FREE COMPANY IS A CLIQUE. IT'S EMBEDDED IN THE GAME ITSELF. YOUR JOB IS A CLIQUE, YOUR CLASS IN SCHOOL IS A CLIQUE AND HAS SMALLER CLIQUES IN IT. IT IS IN THE DEFINITION OF THE TERM, PEOPLE. YOU ARE ALL PART OF AT LEAST 1 CLIQUE.
5> I LOVE MY COMMUNITY AND I LOVE ROLEPLAYING. THAT MEANS I LOVE YOU, YOU COLLECTION OF OBNOXIOUS, STUBBORN, ANNOYING ARSEHOLES. YOU ARE ALL POPULAR TO ME BECAUSE YOU ARE MY PEOPLE.
*coughs* Right then.
Cheers!
 -Black Hat
RE: Cliques, Popularity, and Positivity - Hammersmith - 04-23-2015
Cliques only become a "problem" when they start getting political in their maneuverings and try to leverage population/popularity into power over people, either in or not in it who have no reason to be within their influence for any reason.
The moment that happens you're into the Being a Dick category and you should stop.
RE: Cliques, Popularity, and Positivity - Kage - 04-23-2015
To me, I could be wrong, I've never felt that any of the "cliques" were hard to get to? Get into? Until you burned a bridge, perhaps, by doing something you regret later?? Like, maybe people think joining X Y Z FC or interacting with members of that FC were hard, but when I used to feel much about my RP I didn't find it so hard.
I guess my point is, yes there are groups of people. It's sorta natural that as you get closer to people that you tend to hang out with them more often. They're easier for you to get along with, etc. However, it's been my experience that these groups are not hard set on being -exclusive- which is when I feel that they would be a problem. I've never experienced an actual group that straight up ignored or rejected or blatantly refused to interact with me.
And I've burned my fair share of bridges.
Which leads me into the thought where I've always been confused by the whole "popular" part. @_@ What defines someone into being popular? Someone who has a large community that they've worked hard to network with? Someone knows their name? I admit to having this one heart attack moment where a fellow healer, a WHM, one I -think- who frequents RPC but the last name is a common one so I'm not sure... asked if I was "that Kage from Balmung." Wah? Was it because I post a lot?