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OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) - Printable Version

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RE: OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) - Tumensuns - 06-24-2015

(06-24-2015, 10:39 AM)Nebbs Wrote: Now on the issue of IC, the player control the actions of the character. So there will always be some responsibility for how that is perceived, even if people let it bleed into OOC. You chose to play a character that pushes things, there are consequences.

On the flip of this I see people playing abrasive/challenging types and expecting either an easy ride, or not actually getting IC push back and ostracised. 
I disagree. The only consequences that should result in someone playing an abrasive character is IC consequences. It should never be considered a responsibility of the player to deal with people taking their characters actions personally OOC. The responsibility falls on the player who is the one taking it personal. If their RP bothers you, say as such, and get it figured out or it'll snowball into the dramallama the OP is experiencing.

As far as people not expecting their abrasive character to be ostracized ICly, well.. that's just being silly.

RE: OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) - Edgar - 06-24-2015

I've found this community can be particularly bloody cruel when it wants to be. Without saying any names, I can cite at least 3 examples where I either personally had to deal with someone turning others against me, or have had it happen to a friend and had to act as fucking mediator.

Let me give you the harshest example, with some vagueness to preserve anonymity.

About a year ago, I was removed from a LS by a "mod" if you will, not the LS founder, for being a bit too irritable at the time, which is understandable. However, I noted that I had not received a warning, and the mod in question had a habit of knee-jerk ban-hammers, so I contacted the higher-up to discuss the ban and whether it was appropriate, as well as talk things out regarding my behavior.

Not halfway through the resulting conversation, I was informed by a friend that said higher-up had been feeding the LS my every fucking statement to them for purposes of mockery. I had been made a laughing stock. 

To quote the higher-up,

"I'm sorry you were offended by something said on the internet."

At that point, the entire thing changed. No longer was this about due process for breaking the rules. Instead of merely giving me the proper punishment, it was now suddenly appropriate to make of me a total laughing stock and ruin my reputation. Friends started receiving messages telling them I was a joke. My RP attempts got knee-jerk "Oh god it's you" responses from people. I was harassed by random individual after random individual. You get the gist of it.

Again, this was over a year ago. I have yet to fully live it down. I'm still getting harassed, and as far as I know, I'm still the butt of the LS' jokes. I've openly apologized for my behavior, before, and yet the harassment continues. It all went from an aesop on not venting openly in a LS to a case study in how to ruin someone's life.

When shit like this happens, I honestly feel like the RP community is a bunch of trolls. Which is really bloody sad, because I migrated here from a community that objectively was a bunch of fucking trolls.[sup]1 [/sup]

Our attitudes toward OOC drama and behavior needs to change, because people can and will be hurt by this. It's intolerable.


[sup]1[/sup]Said community is about as populated as the Sahara, nowadays. They are effectively dead.

RE: OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) - Hammersmith - 06-24-2015

I'm a very old, very entrenched RPer.  I've bounced through and with several communities under various stages in my life.

What have I learned?


A) People talk.  
There's no getting around this.  People form their own social circles, some overlapping like a pox-blanket ven diagram of gossip.

B) Assholes always use the "And I speak for a lot of other people!" line.

And they're always full of shit.  It's an emotional manipulation tactic to prop up purposefully hurtful and weak stance.  If there was a problem, you don't hear it from just one source.  Whenever you hear someone use this and refuse to name names, and have no proof, collaboration, or backup?  They're full of shit. Always.  They're wiggling their tiny e-peen around and saying everyone knows it's 10 feet long you're the only one who can't see it.  Emperor's new clothes, except with shitty social actions.

C) What you sow, you reap.

Corny? Yeah.  But, if you're generally a honest, no-shit taking person who is genuinely here for fun and a good time, that shows, that shines through and, in the end, it's what you take with you when you leave.

If you're someone who needs to crab-bucket other people to rise up that gets remembered.  Your drama-storming gets remembered.  Your lies get remembered.  People always, always, look for an excuse to turn on someone like that and bring them down.  In short: Evil doesn't pay, it just self destructs.  The question is when.


D) So what do you take away with this?

Don't try to stop other people from talking.  They will.  

DO shut out people who shit talk, constantly.  They're not worth investing in. They'll only vomit more shit out.  You're here to have a good time.  They're here to masturbate their ego at the expense of others and that's never pretty.

This ties into your point 3 about witch hunts.  People who chase those flags without proof are the problem.  The only counter is to Not Be Them.  Sounds simple.  In practice it's complicated.  Sometimes you really do have to Go Loud against someone.  Because sometimes people are being genuinely harmful to other players.

Given that this is the internet though, the drama-troll has a lot of fallbacks of "I didn't mean it" "You took that the wrong way" or, my personal favorite "You're a bully".  This is where point C comes in.  If you aren't a dick, if people know you aren't a dick, and people know you are, in fact, stand up, then no one will swallow that hook.

Social investment is a buggery and complicated.  Generally it's worth it.

However my last rule is the most important


E) If it stops being fun, stop doing it.

We're here for fun.  If you keep running into drama, if you keep running into shitty people and shitty communities? Drop them.  Like a bad habit or a hot stone, drop them.

It's not worth the impact on your mental health through anxiety, stress, or otherwise.  This is, above all, a game.  The problem people will define themselves by how they can manipulate and cause shit in it for other people.  

Thankfully we're adults here and can step outside that.

The shitty trolls can't. It's all they have.

And this is why, at least, they deserve some pity.

RE: OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) - Moonlit - 06-24-2015

(06-24-2015, 03:25 PM)Tumensuns Wrote:
(06-24-2015, 10:39 AM)Nebbs Wrote: Now on the issue of IC, the player control the actions of the character. So there will always be some responsibility for how that is perceived, even if people let it bleed into OOC. You chose to play a character that pushes things, there are consequences.

On the flip of this I see people playing abrasive/challenging types and expecting either an easy ride, or not actually getting IC push back and ostracised. 
I disagree. The only consequences that should result in someone playing an abrasive character is IC consequences. It should never be considered a responsibility of the player to deal with people taking their characters actions personally OOC. The responsibility falls on the player who is the one taking it personal. If their RP bothers you, say as such, and get it figured out or it'll snowball into the dramallama the OP is experiencing.

As far as people not expecting their abrasive character to be ostracized ICly, well.. that's just being silly.

I think there needs to be balances with this thought process:


If I'm playing a villain character, or even just an unfriendly one, and my character starts to make someone legitly unsettled on an OOC standpoint (either they've had something done to them on a similar level and weren't aware of what they were getting into, this is just something they're squeemish about, etc) and they ask me (politely, mind you) to either, "Stop," or, "Tone it down," I think that I could handle either: toning it down, giving my character something else to do (stopping), or just finding a reason to not roleplay with this person. Sure, it's my character, and I should be entitled to play them however I want, but that doesn't mean I have the right to go about making people uncomfortable on an OOC level just because, 'Loldealwithit.'


Likewise, I've seen people abuse, "My character is a bad guy," to just be a jerk. To transfer OOC emotions to IC and then claim, "Too bad." I've seen roleplay ruined because one player couldn't offer another the decency (or straight up respect) to either tone it down or find someone else to torment. At the end of the day, we've all experienced different things, and our fun should not ever come at the cost of someone else's. This is a big enough community we can find like minded individuals.


Still, people shouldn't just straight up stop playing these characters (or be forced to change them). And people shouldn't condemn them OOC for IC actions. If I'm playing a "Bad guy" character and someone starts accusing me that, "Oh you're a racist IRL," or, "You hate me don't you," or whatever it may be that's on them. That isn't on me. I'm still entitled to play my character and keep myself separated from my character's thoughts and actions. Bad people exist in storytelling. Antagonists are there for a reason. You don't have to participate with them but you also don't need to damn a person for playing them. It doesn't "fall on them," at all if that person hasn't been contacted and there hasn't been an option or hand extended to adjust or leave the story.


At the end of the day, we're all here to have fun, and tell stories. Not everyone is going to jive IC or OOC but that doesn't mean it has to be a shame fest. 


IC=/=OOC


Roleplayers need to learn to communicate better instead of just going to extreme sides. 


*Edit & Note: I realize not all abrasive characters are bad or evil. I get that. I was using a consistent example. 

RE: OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) - Ciel - 06-24-2015

Regardless of what triggered it, I agree with the OP on a lot of points. And even if some people aren't right up in your face about causing drama, there are several who like to act innocent and then fan the flames once it starts. Any opposing opinion is tsken as "negative" just because it doesn't match with someone else's and suddenly you're getting beaten down and having your intelligence insulted for it.

RE: OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) - Tumensuns - 06-24-2015

(06-24-2015, 03:49 PM)Moonlit Wrote:
(06-24-2015, 03:25 PM)Tumensuns Wrote:
(06-24-2015, 10:39 AM)Nebbs Wrote: Now on the issue of IC, the player control the actions of the character. So there will always be some responsibility for how that is perceived, even if people let it bleed into OOC. You chose to play a character that pushes things, there are consequences.

On the flip of this I see people playing abrasive/challenging types and expecting either an easy ride, or not actually getting IC push back and ostracised. 
I disagree. The only consequences that should result in someone playing an abrasive character is IC consequences. It should never be considered a responsibility of the player to deal with people taking their characters actions personally OOC. The responsibility falls on the player who is the one taking it personal. If their RP bothers you, say as such, and get it figured out or it'll snowball into the dramallama the OP is experiencing.

As far as people not expecting their abrasive character to be ostracized ICly, well.. that's just being silly.

I think there needs to be balances with this thought process:


If I'm playing a villain character, or even just an unfriendly one, and my character starts to make someone legitly unsettled on an OOC standpoint (either they've had something done to them on a similar level and weren't aware of what they were getting into, this is just something they're squeemish about, etc) and they ask me (politely, mind you) to either, "Stop," or, "Tone it down," I think that I could handle either: toning it down, giving my character something else to do (stopping), or just finding a reason to not roleplay with this person. Sure, it's my character, and I should be entitled to play them however I want, but that doesn't mean I have the right to go about making people uncomfortable on an OOC level just because, 'Loldealwithit.'


Likewise, I've seen people abuse, "My character is a bad guy," to just be a jerk. To transfer OOC emotions to IC and then claim, "Too bad." I've seen roleplay ruined because one player couldn't offer another the decency (or straight up respect) to either tone it down or find someone else to torment. At the end of the day, we've all experienced different things, and our fun should not ever come at the cost of someone else's. This is a big enough community we can find like minded individuals.


Still, people shouldn't just straight up stop playing these characters (or be forced to change them). And people shouldn't condemn them OOC for IC actions. If I'm playing a "Bad guy" character and someone starts accusing me that, "Oh you're a racist IRL," or, "You hate me don't you," or whatever it may be that's on them. That isn't on me. I'm still entitled to play my character and keep myself separated from my character's thoughts and actions. Bad people exist in storytelling. Antagonists are there for a reason. You don't have to participate with them but you also don't need to damn a person for playing them. It doesn't "fall on them," at all if that person hasn't been contacted and there hasn't been an option or hand extended to adjust or leave the story.


At the end of the day, we're all here to have fun, and tell stories. Not everyone is going to jive IC or OOC but that doesn't mean it has to be a shame fest. 


IC=/=OOC


Roleplayers need to learn to communicate better instead of just going to extreme sides. 


*Edit & Note: I realize not all abrasive characters are bad or evil. I get that. I was using a consistent example. 
I believe you're misunderstanding what it is I was saying. I am not saying "loldealwithit", not in the slightest. To reiterate, it's up to the player who is taking an issue with it to speak up if the RP is bothering them OOCly and talk about it with the other player, not the player who is choosing to play an abrasive/challenging character. They do not know how you feel and cannot assume how you would feel, so how are they responsible for knowing how it is the IC actions are making you feel OOCly?

If you do speak up about it, and the other player says "loldealwithit", then you have the right to remove yourself from the RP. You made your feelings known, and they were just as abrasive OOC, and their OOC actions should have consequence OOCly. They are not willing to cooperate, and neither should you if that is their answer.

But if you choose not to speak up about your problems with it, you cannot hold the actions of the player ICly against them OOCly.

RE: OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) - Thorgar - 06-24-2015

we are here to have fun not ruin the fun of others. never forget it, don't do anything to someone you would not want done to you. 

Simple advice but if you follow it you make your time, and the time of your fellow players, a lot better.

RE: OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) - Meena - 06-24-2015

I a hundred percent agree. I've heard too many times about people being targetted or attacked on Tumblr because of their roleplay decisions or even OOC decisions which can be completely false. I know there are linkshells out there dedicated and used as a purpose of talking of how much you hate certain people or XYZ regardless of your knoweldge of them.

Sometimes, the community feels like highschool again, and that isn't cool. We're (mostly) all adults here.

RE: OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) - Cato - 06-24-2015

(06-24-2015, 05:07 PM)Meena Wrote: I a hundred percent agree. I've heard too many times about people being targetted or attacked on Tumblr because of their roleplay decisions or even OOC decisions which can be completely false. I know there are linkshells out there dedicated and used as a purpose of talking of how much you hate certain people or XYZ regardless of your knoweldge of them.

Sometimes, the community feels like highschool again, and that isn't cool. We're (mostly) all adults here.

I was rather amused - and surprised - to be linked to a rather odd comment about a post I made in a thread on this site over on Tumblr not too long ago. Instead of approaching me and asking for clarification I was branded an 'elitist' and some pretty nasty things were said about me - all based on one post that was taken completely out of context and was simply my own personal opinion at the end of the day.

I find that sort of thing pretty terrifying even with a thick skin. Especially since the culprit is someone often praised for being 'friendly and an awesome role-player'. Obviously I'm unlikely to ever interact with them myself but it makes me worry that some people are going to avoid approaching me based on rumour and gossip alone.

It's a shame, though. 'Communication' is often stated throughout the community as being very important but at the end of the day there isn't a whole lot of it in quite a few cases that would otherwise be resolved with a few polite words. I guess I shouldn't be too surprised that many role-players struggle to agree to disagree though. We're a passionate bunch after all!

RE: OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) - Yune - 06-24-2015

It's unfortunate that behavior like this has become so commonplace, and it's honestly one of the reasons why it's been so difficult for me to go out and make friends in this game. Having bounced around between a number of online communities since around 2002, I've seen my share of bad circumstances like this, and have been at the receiving end of people's senseless ire as well. But as was just mentioned, online communities feel sometimes like high school, and those were certainly days in which certain people would tear others down for the sake of looking like the better person, even if their methods were underhanded and nasty.

I'll admit I've also had experiences in which a first impression of a stranger in the game left a bad taste in my mouth and I was quick to make certain judgements that I now regret. Though the same could be said that I also made positive judgements on people who turned out to be malicious and self-possessed as well, so it can go both ways. At this point, I can only make efforts to better myself by not settling my beliefs towards a person until I can say I actually know them, because I personally hate it when others who know absolutely nothing about me act like they do and judge me unfairly.

Unfortunately, gossip and drama will always be a staple wherever you go. Ideally, we wouldn't have to deal with such things and everyone would be able to understand one another, but there are too many insecure or bitter people out there, or simply those who don't feel that they're doing anything wrong because the entire situation is misunderstood. Still, for people like me who are shy and reclusive, scenarios like this can make future socializing very difficult indeed. I've had one known case in the game in which a person--a friend--misinterpreted something and proceeded to speak negatively about me behind my back rather than come to me about the issue that upset them. Meanwhile, the things they were ranting about didn't even happen. As perhaps expected, that person has since stopped talking to me, even after claiming that the issue between us was resolved when we were able to discuss the misunderstanding.

It's a really horrible feeling when you're completely unaware of an issue while the issue itself is being spread around to everyone else who will form opinions despite having zero knowledge of you as a person. There have been times already when I've wondered if some of the few people in the game who have ever socialized with me stopped as suddenly as they did because they heard something about me that wasn't even true. It's unfortunate, but most people will simply believe the first thing they hear about a person and trust the perspective of another who may not even know that person either.

I would really like to make friends in this game, but hearing about this kind of behavior and seeing/experiencing it first hand just makes the introvert in me not even want to try for it. I know that there are some true gems in our community, but there are also many nasty and opinionated people who will tear you down the moment they realize they'll benefit from it in some way.

RE: OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) - Hammersmith - 06-24-2015

(06-24-2015, 05:07 PM)Meena Wrote: I a hundred percent agree. I've heard too many times about people being targetted or attacked on Tumblr because of their roleplay decisions or even OOC decisions which can be completely false. I know there are linkshells out there dedicated and used as a purpose of talking of how much you hate certain people or XYZ regardless of your knoweldge of them.

Sometimes, the community feels like highschool again, and that isn't cool. We're (mostly) all adults here.

What do you mean "again" ?

You never left.

DUN DUN DUN


In all seriousness?  Nerd are a dangerous social category in a lot of ways.  A lot of them never move past the "I am the victim" stage and it just gets uglier for a lot of them towards other people from there.  A pass for terrible behavior.  "Get out of jail free" card because they're the person who never got what they were entitled to so the world owes them and they never stop trying to take what they think is owed. (Spoilers: They're not entitled to anything, this is what makes them baddies)


Those that move past that? Good nerds.  Good people.

Those that don't?

BAD NERDS.

RE: OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) - Caspar - 06-24-2015

Tumblr sounds like a scary place. Among even RPrs close to me that I respect, I find the cattiness I've glimpsed briefly creeping onto it horribly alienating, to say nothing of the more vitriolic private grudges.

RE: OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) - Kellach Woods - 06-24-2015

btw i have a tumblr you will not find cattiness on it but you might find stark raving mad ramblings about teh msq Big Grin

* * *

I don't think I've ever tried to start shit over people's RP here. I don't have the time, it's not worth it, and I'm about as bad as anyone else when it comes to special snowflakeyness (though I do it more for my own amusement and comedy than for the "privilege" of being OP in RP situations).

RE: OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) - Faye - 06-24-2015

(06-24-2015, 05:17 PM)Graeham Wrote:
(06-24-2015, 05:07 PM)Meena Wrote: I a hundred percent agree. I've heard too many times about people being targetted or attacked on Tumblr because of their roleplay decisions or even OOC decisions which can be completely false. I know there are linkshells out there dedicated and used as a purpose of talking of how much you hate certain people or XYZ regardless of your knoweldge of them.

Sometimes, the community feels like highschool again, and that isn't cool. We're (mostly) all adults here.

I was rather amused - and surprised - to be linked to a rather odd comment about a post I made in a thread on this site over on Tumblr not too long ago. Instead of approaching me and asking for clarification I was branded an 'elitist' and some pretty nasty things were said about me - all based on one post that was taken completely out of context and was simply my own personal opinion at the end of the day.

I find that sort of thing pretty terrifying even with a thick skin. Especially since the culprit is someone often praised for being 'friendly and an awesome role-player'. Obviously I'm unlikely to ever interact with them myself but it makes me worry that some people are going to avoid approaching me based on rumour and gossip alone.

It's a shame, though. 'Communication' is often stated throughout the community as being very important but at the end of the day there isn't a whole lot of it in quite a few cases that would otherwise be resolved with a few polite words. I guess I shouldn't be too surprised that many role-players struggle to agree to disagree though. We're a passionate bunch after all!

I've had a "friendly and awesome role-player" in the community write some pretty venomous posts on Tumblr as well with some things I've said twisted and totally out of context, and some downright lies tossed in (and I am but one of many to be the target of this person's "social justice" where harassment is apparently valid if it's used to combat perceived wrongs). That didn't bother me--what was disturbing was how others blindly believed what was written, reblogging and building up this huge thing that never actually happened, acting terribly offended by things that were never said/done and that they were shown no proof of, because there was none.

I've even see lies about myself/my FC written by someone posting in this very thread now condemning drama and childish behavior. On that note, there are several people in this thread I've seen involved in drama in one form or another--almost all of us have. The most important thing we can do to combat drama is ask ourselves what we are doing to perpetuate it. Because, like it or not, if it keeps happening to you, you're the common denominator and are likely playing some role in it. And this goes for everyone, of course--myself definitely not excluded. I'm certainly not innocent.

RE: OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) - V'aleera - 06-24-2015

I try not to gossip too much with one point of exception: if I or anyone whom I trust has a terrible experience with a member of an FC this will negatively impact my opinion of said FC and the capability and responsibility of its leadership. And these experiences and opinions are not ones that I will be frugal in sharing, especially to the new players and RPers I meet.