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+--- Thread: How to Spooky Paladin - DRK Tanking Talk (/showthread.php?tid=12329)
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RE: How to Spooky Paladin - DRK Tanking Talk - Melkire - 07-01-2015
(07-01-2015, 02:34 PM)Eve Malusion Wrote: Currently the debated two are Awareness / Mercy Stroke on a situational basis, Provoke, Convalesense, Foresight and Bloodbath staying on fulltime. I may end up having Bloodbath being the one I drop off when I get into proper 60 raiding, as well. Since all our AoE damage is magic it can't be utilised as well as on Warrior.
Huh. I'm curious as to why MS is considered situational. Tanks (meaning PLD, WAR has it natively) and DPS mostly take it to help push phases by contributing more damage whenever the boss/adds get low on health. Getting the kill with it for some extra HP doesn't hurt either, but that never really comes into play in raid/endgame environments.
Foresight's also historically been considered a weak defensive CD to take, given how it's specifically a flat bonus to physical defense instead of percentage DR. I can see why DRKs would want Bloodbath at all times, though, I just wasn't sure that was the case given my lack of experience so far with the job.
RE: How to Spooky Paladin - DRK Tanking Talk - McBeefâ„¢ - 07-01-2015
(07-01-2015, 02:31 PM)Melkire Wrote: Haven't leveled DRK at all yet, but I have PLD and WAR to 50 and tank regularly on my WAR.
Question for DRK players: do you expect to replace Foresight or Bloodbath with Awareness at any point? I assume that Provoke, Convalescence, and Mercy Stroke are the "have these at all times" cross-class abilities for the job.
I always liked bloodbath since it was a way to get room-wide aggro. You turn it on and shield lob with your pull, and then you get hard aggro on all of them (rather than the soft aggro of just being the first thing they see).
It was really useful for t5 pulls. I'm not sure what aggro tools DRK has, but I am sure it can be used for something.
RE: How to Spooky Paladin - DRK Tanking Talk - Eve Malusion - 07-01-2015
(07-01-2015, 02:31 PM)Melkire Wrote: Stopping myself from making a too large quoting tree.Well I say those are the two debated but really its more: Vast majority of the time, Mercy stroke. The rare times when you're going to be aoeing and such a bunch or taking hits that can / should crit, Awareness.
Foresight is taken because we're honestly on the low-end of how many defensive CDs we have, and some of the more unreliable ones (Dark Dance) can use the slight buffer. It still comes out to ~5% reduction, and can also be stacked with Reprisal to deal with the smaller stuff.
RE: How to Spooky Paladin - DRK Tanking Talk - McBeefâ„¢ - 07-01-2015
(07-01-2015, 02:46 PM)Eve Malusion Wrote:(07-01-2015, 02:31 PM)Melkire Wrote: Stopping myself from making a too large quoting tree.Well I say those are the two debated but really its more: Vast majority of the time, Mercy stroke. The rare times when you're going to be aoeing and such a bunch or taking hits that can / should crit, Awareness.
Foresight is taken because we're honestly on the low-end of how many defensive CDs we have, and some of the more unreliable ones (Dark Dance) can use the slight buffer. It still comes out to ~5% reduction, and can also be stacked with Reprisal to deal with the smaller stuff.
Really? I thought it came out closer to around 15% I notice a substantial difference when using foresight on PLD.
RE: How to Spooky Paladin - DRK Tanking Talk - Eve Malusion - 07-01-2015
(07-01-2015, 02:50 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:I do not feel confident enough in this to say you should quote me on that, its been a long time since I looked at the numbers and I may have forgotten a 1. In addition my numbers are pre-HW, so they would be dubious at best regardless!(07-01-2015, 02:46 PM)Eve Malusion Wrote:(07-01-2015, 02:31 PM)Melkire Wrote: Stopping myself from making a too large quoting tree.Well I say those are the two debated but really its more: Vast majority of the time, Mercy stroke. The rare times when you're going to be aoeing and such a bunch or taking hits that can / should crit, Awareness.
Foresight is taken because we're honestly on the low-end of how many defensive CDs we have, and some of the more unreliable ones (Dark Dance) can use the slight buffer. It still comes out to ~5% reduction, and can also be stacked with Reprisal to deal with the smaller stuff.
Really? I thought it came out closer to around 15% I notice a substantial difference when using foresight on PLD.
RE: How to Spooky Paladin - DRK Tanking Talk - Gegenji - 07-01-2015
I never use Awareness on my other tanks myself, even if I have it slotted. I guess I just never figured out the proper time to use it... and no situation has really called out to me as "Awareness Time." I'd rather have straight constant mitigation or ways to heal/bolster healing over preventing a chance at a crit. Then again, I don't raid or anything of that nature, so it might not be that big of a deal for me - and makes my five cross-skills easy to pick.
RE: How to Spooky Paladin - DRK Tanking Talk - McBeefâ„¢ - 07-01-2015
(07-01-2015, 02:58 PM)Gegenji Wrote: I never use Awareness on my other tanks myself, even if I have it slotted. I guess I just never figured out the proper time to use it... and no situation has really called out to me as "Awareness Time." I'd rather have straight constant mitigation or ways to heal/bolster healing over preventing a chance at a crit. Then again, I don't raid or anything of that nature, so it might not be that big of a deal for me - and makes my five cross-skills easy to pick.
There is one time I've used it constantly, and that was in t11. The Sphere add... Or was it the square? Anyway, one of them Crits 100% of the time unless you have awareness. I think the AOE afterwards also crits as well.
There were a few other attacks in coil that could kill you in one hit if they critted, so awareness was just a safety net for those.
RE: How to Spooky Paladin - DRK Tanking Talk - Steel Wolf - 07-01-2015
I do actually have Awareness slotted in my WAR and DRK bars, and I have had practically no use on it either.
Foresight I have used because, well...I figure some mitigation is better than none. It tends to be the first cooldown I would pop...and even then that would likely take a backseat to something else like Shadowall.
Bloodbath and Convalescence has always been a boon for me, either to pull me out of a near-fire when solo'ing, or to help take some pressure off of my healers while tanking. Tied with a well-placed Mercy Stroke in solo situations and I usually have found myself coming out of a fight that I probably should have died on otherwise. Admittedly, Mercy has been not terribly huge in group situations for its healing ability as I always seem to mis-time the thing...but I still find myself firing it off in order to just add a little extra bursty punch.
The pair of abilities I'm having difficulty working into my rotation is Dark Dance and the Parry Proc Skill Whose Name I Can't Recall Right Now. Obviously they pair off together, but...I'm just not finding a situation in which that is terribly helpful. It's like the Shield Swipe skill for PLD--it's there, I have fired it off when it procs because I'm trained to follow cues...but I just...I'm not sure.
Also, I'm having a helluva time mapping things comfortably right now. I've got a good rotational arrangement (and a SteelSeries keyboard with a gamepad, which is immensely helpful), but I just...I can tell it's gonna get really hairy, really fast.
RE: How to Spooky Paladin - DRK Tanking Talk - Gegenji - 07-01-2015
(07-01-2015, 03:05 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:(07-01-2015, 02:58 PM)Gegenji Wrote: I never use Awareness on my other tanks myself, even if I have it slotted. I guess I just never figured out the proper time to use it... and no situation has really called out to me as "Awareness Time." I'd rather have straight constant mitigation or ways to heal/bolster healing over preventing a chance at a crit. Then again, I don't raid or anything of that nature, so it might not be that big of a deal for me - and makes my five cross-skills easy to pick.
There is one time I've used it constantly, and that was in t11. The Sphere add... Or was it the square? Anyway, one of them Crits 100% of the time unless you have awareness. I think the AOE afterwards also crits as well.
There were a few other attacks in coil that could kill you in one hit if they critted, so awareness was just a safety net for those.
So, I suppose the recommended setup would be Bloodbath, Convalescence, Provoke, Mercy Stroke, and Awareness for raids (if Alexander too has dangerous crits that need to be avoided)? With Awareness being swapped out for Foresight in non-raid situations or when Awareness just isn't needed?
RE: How to Spooky Paladin - DRK Tanking Talk - Melkire - 07-01-2015
(07-01-2015, 04:02 PM)Gegenji Wrote: So, I suppose the recommended setup would be Bloodbath, Convalescence, Provoke, Mercy Stroke, and Awareness for raids (if Alexander too has dangerous crits that need to be avoided)? With Awareness being swapped out for Foresight in non-raid situations or when Awareness just isn't needed?
Awareness generally gets swapped in if you anticipate a large swarm of trash (usually more useful in dungeons than in trials) or else need to guarantee that a really hard-hitting series of attacks DOESN'T crit (the T11 example that Nat referenced). As previously mentioned, it doesn't see much use in boss fight environments such as the Primal EX fights or the later Coil instances.
...that said, Physical Defense has always been linear ever since FFXIV 2.1, so I suppose Foresight sucking back THEN doesn't necessarily mean it sucks NOW that we have higher PhysDef totals. I'd still rather take DR-granting skills like Rampart over Foresight any day, but sadly we don't have that option.
Provoke and Convalescence are guaranteed must-haves for tanks in XIV. From input and Feedback here, it seems Awareness is left out and the other skills taken, with Awareness being swapped in and the skill being swapped out depending on what's needed for the fight at hand.
RE: How to Spooky Paladin - DRK Tanking Talk - FreelanceWizard - 07-01-2015
Personally, I'd keep Foresight and swing Mercy Stroke and Awareness in your fifth CC slot. My logic here is that Mercy Stroke's got a long cooldown, is only situationally useful by definition (only works if the mob is near-death), and doesn't really do that much damage. Foresight, conversely, is a straight-up defensive cooldown that can help keep you alive and is effective whenever you need more survivability. Awareness is, as others have noted, also a very situational skill, so it seems to me that your CC line up should be Provoke, Convalescence, Bloodbath, Foresight, Mercy Stroke/Awareness, with Provoke in slot 1 and Mercy Stroke/Awareness in slot 5.
That's just my take on it, though.
I have to agree that Rampart would've been a lot better than Foresight, though... alas.