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+--- Thread: Lore Question: Soulstones and how to acquire them. (/showthread.php?tid=13833)
RE: Lore Question: Soulstones and how to acquire them. - Harknezz - 10-12-2015
I actually go the opposite way, I enjoy using the soulstones IC. I do agree that they were likely added in as a good mechanic way to handle the classes, but they can also add alot in for RP too.
As far as how to get one, I'd assume it'd be as easy as going to the group for that class if you are training a new person, assuming there is one and you're part of it. Alec received his from the Paladin that took him into training, but Idk how the other player handled that part.Â
From there, I use the fact that they're like aetherial weapons and have part of the souls of people who have used it in the past still within them. It adds in extra guidance from the stone, and you could even have your character discover things about those they follow in the path and learn from their stories and such.
RE: Lore Question: Soulstones and how to acquire them. - Valde - 10-12-2015
(10-12-2015, 01:54 PM)Harknezz Wrote: I actually go the opposite way, I enjoy using the soulstones IC. I do agree that they were likely added in as a good mechanic way to handle the classes, but they can also add alot in for RP too.
As far as how to get one, I'd assume it'd be as easy as going to the group for that class if you are training a new person, assuming there is one and you're part of it. Alec received his from the Paladin that took him into training, but Idk how the other player handled that part.Â
From there, I use the fact that they're like aetherial weapons and have part of the souls of people who have used it in the past still within them. It adds in extra guidance from the stone, and you could even have your character discover things about those they follow in the path and learn from their stories and such.
This isn't as accurate as I would like, unfortunately, if we go by game lore. The BLM Soulstone is given to you specifically because it's rare and you show potential. The Dragoon Soulstones are guarded by Ishgard, so anyone outside of them will have trouble acquiring them. Monks are held by Ala Mhigo, and for Dark Knights there isn't even anything discussing them, you just happen on one (which can make for interesting RP if you go this route as well. Just random DRK Soulstones laying everywhere apparently).
There has been discussion before on the feasibility of acquiring a Soulstone ICly or whether it'd simply be easier to just not restrict yourself by game mechanics and RP your character acquiring power in different ways. After all, who says Soulstones are the end-all be-all for progression other than game mechanics?
RE: Lore Question: Soulstones and how to acquire them. - Coatleque - 10-12-2015
(10-12-2015, 02:28 PM)Isaelt Haragin Wrote: After all, who says Soulstones are the end-all be-all for progression other than game mechanics?
They're not, that's just it. Think of them like the cliff notes of learning a trade. It can help accelerate learning, but it's not the only way to acquire knowledge.
{edit}
In fact, Coatleque doesn't even -need- a soulstone anymore. She carries it now only for remembrance.
RE: Lore Question: Soulstones and how to acquire them. - LiadansWhisper - 10-12-2015
(10-12-2015, 02:33 PM)Coatleque Wrote:(10-12-2015, 02:28 PM)Isaelt Haragin Wrote: After all, who says Soulstones are the end-all be-all for progression other than game mechanics?
They're not, that's just it. Â Think of them like the cliff notes of learning a trade. Â It can help accelerate learning, but it's not the only way to acquire knowledge.
^^
The only instance in which they appear to be absolutely required is with Black Mages. Â Even then, you might be able to find a way around that with a good enough reason.
RE: Lore Question: Soulstones and how to acquire them. - SessionZero - 10-12-2015
(10-12-2015, 02:35 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:(10-12-2015, 02:33 PM)Coatleque Wrote:(10-12-2015, 02:28 PM)Isaelt Haragin Wrote: After all, who says Soulstones are the end-all be-all for progression other than game mechanics?
They're not, that's just it. Â Think of them like the cliff notes of learning a trade. Â It can help accelerate learning, but it's not the only way to acquire knowledge.
^^
The only instance in which they appear to be absolutely required is with Black Mages. Â Even then, you might be able to find a way around that with a good enough reason.
Perhaps a pact with a Voidsent or something like that. Black magic and Void magic seem tied together, loosely at the very least.
RE: Lore Question: Soulstones and how to acquire them. - LiadansWhisper - 10-12-2015
(10-12-2015, 02:37 PM)SessionZero Wrote: Perhaps a pact with a Voidsent or something like that. Black magic and Void magic seem tied together, loosely at the very least.
I mean, that's a possibility. Â You might be able to pull off something like a special technique that keeps you from going up in flames, too!
RE: Lore Question: Soulstones and how to acquire them. - Berrod Armstrong - 10-12-2015
Berrod was in possession of two types of Soul Crystals. One was his master's, passed down to him when he finally passed his trials as a novice all those years ago. The second was his own -- a blank crystal that he carried around with him around his neck or in his pocket.Â
As he learned and grew and experienced things, his own spirit began to imprint upon the crystal. He'd intended to keep it with him for several years, then pass that on to someone else.Â
His master's crystal didn't give him any powers, memories, or whisper to him. It simply eased his affinity with his master's and his element (Lightning) and allowed his chakras to resonate more powerfully -- though not by much.Â
At the moment, however, he is no longer in possession of either of those crystals.
RE: Lore Question: Soulstones and how to acquire them. - mongi291 - 10-12-2015
(10-12-2015, 02:35 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:It seems to be required for Dark Knights too. I mean, the main character starts hearing the "voice in the abyss" and "Fray" is reanimated only after he touched the soulstone.(10-12-2015, 02:33 PM)Coatleque Wrote:(10-12-2015, 02:28 PM)Isaelt Haragin Wrote: After all, who says Soulstones are the end-all be-all for progression other than game mechanics?
They're not, that's just it. Â Think of them like the cliff notes of learning a trade. Â It can help accelerate learning, but it's not the only way to acquire knowledge.
^^
The only instance in which they appear to be absolutely required is with Black Mages. Â Even then, you might be able to find a way around that with a good enough reason.
I mean, if you didn't need a soulstone, everyone would be a Dark Knight. xD
RE: Lore Question: Soulstones and how to acquire them. - Wemrys - 10-12-2015
I tend to treat soulstones kinda like how the Zodiac Stones are in Final Fantasy Tactics (minus the whole transforming into eldritch abominations thing...). The opening attract screen of FFT vaguely describes that the zodiac stones in that game are stones that have the memories and power of past heroes (and villains) "etched" into them. As a result, anyone who forms a pact with a stone basically could draw on its power for good or for evil. The wrong person using a stone would draw out its raw power triggering a transformation in those people externally into the form of the Lucavi (see: Wiegraf turning into Velius/Belias). On the other hand a person with strong enough good intentions could draw out the good side of the stones, such as when Rafa's brother Malak was nearly killed and the stone saved him at Rafa's plea to save her brother.
This may seem like a far cry from soulstones in FFXIV but it works on the same principles in some of the stories though it's more of a case of the soulstones/powers of the soulstones overwhelming NPCs rather than NPCs being inherently evil in some cases. The whole idea of White Magic being abused in the 5th Astral Era and the resulting Umbral era is a good example of the power being used for wrong and the Warrior questline and trying to control the Inner Beast is a good example of the power overwhelming a user. The instruction/memories on using the power is there, but the effects on a person can depend on how they decide to use it.
RE: Lore Question: Soulstones and how to acquire them. - LiadansWhisper - 10-12-2015
(10-12-2015, 03:03 PM)mongi291 Wrote: It seems to be required for Dark Knights too. I mean, the main character starts hearing the "voice in the abyss" and "Fray" is reanimated only after he touched the soulstone.
I mean, if you didn't need a soulstone, everyone would be a Dark Knight. xD
No, they wouldn't, because they still would need to be trained.
The only reason why the soulstone is "required" for Black Mages is that they literally burn from the inside out if they channel black magic without one.
That's it. Â You could easily make a case for not using a soulstone in pretty much every other situation. Â What makes a Paladin a Paladin isn't the soulstone - it's the training. Â What makes a White Mage a White Mage isn't the soulstone - it's the training and access to Succor.
Etc.
RE: Lore Question: Soulstones and how to acquire them. - LiadansWhisper - 10-12-2015
(10-12-2015, 03:07 PM)Wemrys Wrote: I tend to treat soulstones kinda like how the Zodiac Stones are in Final Fantasy Tactics (minus the whole transforming into eldritch abominations thing...). The opening attract screen of FFT vaguely describes that the zodiac stones in that game are stones that have the memories and power of past heroes (and villains) "etched" into them. As a result, anyone who forms a pact with a stone basically could draw on its power for good or for evil. The wrong person using a stone would draw out its raw power triggering a transformation in those people externally into the form of the Lucavi (see: Wiegraf turning into Velius/Belias). On the other hand a person with strong enough good intentions could draw out the good side of the stones, such as when Rafa's brother Malak was nearly killed and the stone saved him at Rafa's plea to save her brother.
This may seem like a far cry from soulstones in FFT but it works on the same principles in some of the stories though it's more of a case of the soulstones/powers of the soulstones overwhelming NPCs rather than NPCs being inherently evil in some cases. The whole idea of White Magic being abused in the 5th Astral Era and the resulting Umbral era is a good example of the power being used for wrong and the Warrior questline and trying to control the Inner Beast is a good example of the power overwhelming a user. The instruction/memories on using the power is there, but the effects on a person can depend on how they decide to use it to varying effects.
Well, you could also say that the whole reason why some of these disciplines are quite literally buried in the "sands of time," as it were, is because there is a huge potential for them to be abused. Â I think that they took that concept from FFT, but dropped it into the jobs themselves, for the most part. Â It's not the soulstone people are abusing so much as the power they have been taught.
RE: Lore Question: Soulstones and how to acquire them. - mongi291 - 10-12-2015
(10-12-2015, 03:08 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:Yes, but from what we've seen, you still need a Soulstone to use the powers of a Dark Knight. It's not the same as Black Mage, but with the WoL awakening its dark side upon touching the Soulstone, and Sidurgu telling you "to surrender your weapon and Soul Crystal" if you don't want to deal with the consequences of being a Dark Knight, it seems that without a Soulstone you can't be a Dark Knight.(10-12-2015, 03:03 PM)mongi291 Wrote: It seems to be required for Dark Knights too. I mean, the main character starts hearing the "voice in the abyss" and "Fray" is reanimated only after he touched the soulstone.
I mean, if you didn't need a soulstone, everyone would be a Dark Knight. xD
No, they wouldn't, because they still would need to be trained.
The only reason why the soulstone is "required" for Black Mages is that they literally burn from the inside out if they channel black magic without one.
That's it. Â You could easily make a case for not using a soulstone in pretty much every other situation. Â What makes a Paladin a Paladin isn't the soulstone - it's the training. Â What makes a White Mage a White Mage isn't the soulstone - it's the training and access to Succor.
Etc.
That's just my opinion anyway. I wouldn't argue with someone if they were a Dark Knight without Soulstone, but I decided to have Isaulde have one to avoid problems with the lore in the future (we didn't know black magic required a Soulstone until 3.0, after all).
RE: Lore Question: Soulstones and how to acquire them. - LiadansWhisper - 10-12-2015
(10-12-2015, 03:33 PM)mongi291 Wrote: Yes, but from what we've seen, you still need a Soulstone to use the powers of a Dark Knight. It's not the same as Black Mage, but with the WoL awakening its dark side upon touching the Soulstone, and Sidurgu telling you "to surrender your weapon and Soul Crystal" if you don't want to deal with the consequences of being a Dark Knight, it seems that without a Soulstone you can't be a Dark Knight.
That's just my opinion anyway. I wouldn't argue with someone if they were a Dark Knight without Soulstone, but I decided to have Isaulde have one to avoid problems with the lore in the future (we didn't know black magic required a Soulstone until 3.0, after all).
I haven't played through the Dark Knight questline, so I don't have any differing opinions to offer on that one. Â The only thing I'm trying to say is that unless the questline explicitly tells you that you either a) can't use the power at all without a soulstone or b) you'll just up and die if you don't have one (which I guess is like a, but with more fire and death >.>), then there's no reason to assume that you absolutely must have a soulstone to be a particular job. Â And even then, you may very well be able to come up with a really good story reason as to why you, in particular, don't have a soulstone but are still using the abilities inherent to a particular job.
Then again, in most cases, acquiring a soulstone for a particular job is not that difficult.
RE: Lore Question: Soulstones and how to acquire them. - Coatleque - 10-12-2015
(10-12-2015, 03:33 PM)mongi291 Wrote: [...] and Sidurgu telling you "to surrender your weapon and Soul Crystal" if you don't want to deal with the consequences of being a Dark Knight [...]
Or perhaps he didn't want your lack of commitment to tarnish the stone. After all, it is the holder's experiences that seep into the stone for others to learn from. Why would you want the stone of someone who half-arsed it before you?
RE: Lore Question: Soulstones and how to acquire them. - SessionZero - 10-12-2015
You don't need a soulstone to be a Dark Knight. Fray's spirit shocks awake your darkside but you don't necessarily need the stone to do such. Besides that, your darkside isn't necessarily the source of Dark Knight powers so much as a side effect. The source of a Dark Knight's power is raw emotion.