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+--- Thread: RPC Census, Part IX (Literacy--CLOSED) (/showthread.php?tid=2127)
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RE: RPC Census, Part IX (Literacy) - Varus - 06-09-2013
(06-09-2013, 09:55 PM)Echo Wrote: This poll has me a bit curious, how does one speak and write, but not read? Â Does this imply that a person(race?) is self taught in such an informal way that only they can comprehend what they write? Â Or is there any way to interoperate this?
I think I'm actually very interested in trying to put this element into my character~
Okay, so I'll expand upon this.
There are four basic communication skills. There are tons of subdivisions, depending on which linguist you ask, but basically they are:
Listening (receptive) Â Â Reading (receptive)
Speaking (productive) Â Writing (productive)
So you have two pairs of receptive and productive skills. Listening and Speaking are considered inherent communication skills - that is, they come naturally and without much assistance. Whereas Reading and Writing are taught communication skills, which require a subject to be taught and be immersed in an environment that encourages reading and writing in the target language.
In general, it is much easier to hone your receptive skills than your productive ones. Taking humans into example, one normally learns how to Listen and then Speak. Reading and Writing come after and must be taught.
Note that this only applies to a subject's first language. Secondary language acquisition is virtually completely taught and not inherent, since subjects must make proper associations between their first language and the second language to understand the second language. This does not apply to true bilinguals, however.
EDIT: I see your point Echo. Upon reading the poll again, I realize that a few of the options make no sense for a first language speaker or even secondary language speakers.
"Writing Only" doesn't make sense because in order to write, one must be able to associate the written word with either the spoken one, the heard one, and/or the read one - unless the character is associating the written word with the equivalent word in a different language, as one might do in secondary language acquisition.
"Speaking Only" doesn't make sense for much of the same reasons above. I guess this situation would be possible for people going through secondary language acquisition, but I highly doubt it.
"Can read and speak" implies the character cannot Write or Listen. While the inability to Write is understandable, the inability to Listen while still being able to Speak does not make sense unless the person is deaf - even then, it barely makes any sense (the subject would not have any way to associate the word with the proper sound). However, this case would be possible during secondary language acquisition (People learning Japanese in a classroom tend to learn how to Read and Speak as they learn how to Listen - Writing comes last.)
"Can Speak and Write" implies the character cannot perform the two receptive skills needed to perform the these two productive ones, which also does not make sense, unless we were also including secondary language acquisition, even then, this situation is practically impossible.
RE: RPC Census, Part IX (Literacy) - Uther - 06-09-2013
Uther is an avid reader which is echoed in his ability to write fairly well, though he doesn't write often. During the period between leaving Ishgard and being accepted by Gridania's citizens, he was naturally very lonesome so he found solace in literature. He is also fairly well-spoken though he has the dialect of an Ishgardian.
Essentially, he has a mastery over the written and spoken word that one would expect from someone who had been formally educated in their youth.
Note:Â I imagine the dialect of someone from Ishgard would be a sort of older sounding speech, like that of a knight or a viking, though not sounding ridiculous or Shakespearean.
RE: RPC Census, Part IX (Literacy) - Manari - 06-09-2013
Manari can speak well, read well, and write well. She writes novels in her journal, after all. Her tribe was in touch with the world. Just because they lived together and called themselves a "Tribe" doesn't mean they tie sticks and rocks together to hunt and grunt as a form of language.
She speaks with a traditional miqo'te accent, if such a thing exists. They say their words in a way only Miqo'te can pronounce, so I assume that it does exist. She speaks what her tribe used to call the "old tongue." It's an old language that most of the younger members of the tribe didn't use much, thus it being dubbed the "old tongue." She can also speak a basic amount of Garlean, only knowing mostly a specific set of words thanks to a mission in Everwatch where she had to go undercover and save an ally. I would assume most of that is probably gone now, since that would have been 5 years ago in ARR, so I suppose she can't speak any of that anymore.
RE: RPC Census, Part IX (Literacy) - Rhostel - 06-10-2013
Rhostel is well-spoken and reads well enough to get by, but can't write much more than her own name. I'm honestly shocked that level of literacy isn't more common.
Alts are both superbly literate in all ways.
(06-09-2013, 10:08 PM)Tyonis Wrote: "Speaking Only" doesn't make sense for much of the same reasons above. I guess this situation would be possible for people going through secondary language acquisition, but I highly doubt it.Or, you know, any illiterates among the majority of characters who have Eorzean as their native tongue.
(06-09-2013, 10:08 PM)Tyonis Wrote: "Can read and speak" implies the character cannot Write or Listen. While the inability to Write is understandable, the inability to Listen while still being able to Speak does not make sense unless the person is deaf - even then, it barely makes any sense (the subject would not have any way to associate the word with the proper sound). However, this case would be possible during secondary language acquisition (People learning Japanese in a classroom tend to learn how to Read and Speak before learning how to Listen and Write.)You're over-thinking it, mate. Listening isn't part of the poll at all, so you can't assume any option implies an inability to do so.
This level of literacy was actually quite common among lower classes in history. Being able to read had a lot of practical use, but being able to write didn't matter so much if you didn't have any power.
(06-09-2013, 10:08 PM)Tyonis Wrote: "Can Speak and Write" implies the character cannot perform the two receptive skills needed to perform the these two productive ones, which also does not make sense, unless we were also including secondary language acquisition, even then, this situation is practically impossible.Again, no implication of an inability to listen. But yes, it is pretty much impossible to write without reading.
RE: RPC Census, Part IX (Literacy) - Varus - 06-10-2013
(06-10-2013, 12:14 AM)Rhostel Wrote: Rhostel is well-spoken and reads well enough to get by, but can't write much more than her own name. I'm honestly shocked that level of literacy isn't more common.
Alts are both superbly literate in all ways.
(06-09-2013, 10:08 PM)Tyonis Wrote: "Speaking Only" doesn't make sense for much of the same reasons above. I guess this situation would be possible for people going through secondary language acquisition, but I highly doubt it.Or, you know, any illiterates among the majority of characters who have Eorzean as their native tongue.
(06-09-2013, 10:08 PM)Tyonis Wrote: "Can read and speak" implies the character cannot Write or Listen. While the inability to Write is understandable, the inability to Listen while still being able to Speak does not make sense unless the person is deaf - even then, it barely makes any sense (the subject would not have any way to associate the word with the proper sound). However, this case would be possible during secondary language acquisition (People learning Japanese in a classroom tend to learn how to Read and Speak before learning how to Listen and Write.)You're over-thinking it, mate. Listening isn't part of the poll at all, so you can't assume any option implies an inability to do so.
This level of literacy was actually quite common among lower classes in history. Being able to read had a lot of practical use, but being able to write didn't matter so much if you didn't have any power.
(06-09-2013, 10:08 PM)Tyonis Wrote: "Can Speak and Write" implies the character cannot perform the two receptive skills needed to perform the these two productive ones, which also does not make sense, unless we were also including secondary language acquisition, even then, this situation is practically impossible.Again, no implication of an inability to listen. But yes, it is pretty much impossible to write without reading.
1) Yes, the Listening skill isn't covered by the poll, so we will automatically assume characters who choose this option can understand Eorzean speech at some level. If this is the case, then yes, "Speaking Only" would be applicable, since this option would now imply the character can Listen with enough fluency to Speak.
2) Once more, if we automatically assume that the characters who pick this option can Listen and understand Eorzean speech at some level, "Can Read and Speak" becomes possible because Speaking is a productive skill born from Listening and Reading is a fundamental, receptive skill. And you are right; this is the common level of literacy among the lower class.
3) We seem to have an agreement on the third issue.
RE: RPC Census, Part IX (Literacy) - Aysun - 06-10-2013
(06-09-2013, 11:28 PM)Manari Wrote: She speaks with a traditional miqo'te accent, if such a thing exists. Â They say their words in a way only Miqo'te can pronounce, so I assume that it does exist.
I wouldn't call that an accent really, rather just having the ability produce the extra sounds described in the naming conventions thread (the hiss/spit 'h' for example), because she is Miqo'te. Though since her tribe seems to be separated from Gridania and other Keeper tribes, I bet they have their own accent that they're not even aware of since they speak what is probably their own variant of the old language. (OT, just got me musing.)
RE: RPC Census, Part IX (Literacy) - Anzio - 06-11-2013
Anzil cannot read or write. His speech is okay enough. Just don't use words that are too big...
RE: RPC Census, Part IX (Literacy) - cranlet - 06-11-2013
From what I have of Melle so far, she has a high level of literacy, but it never ever shows.
RE: RPC Census, Part IX (Literacy) - Manari - 06-11-2013
(06-10-2013, 05:22 PM)Aysun Wrote:(06-09-2013, 11:28 PM)Manari Wrote: She speaks with a traditional miqo'te accent, if such a thing exists. Â They say their words in a way only Miqo'te can pronounce, so I assume that it does exist.
I wouldn't call that an accent really, rather just having the ability produce the extra sounds described in the naming conventions thread (the hiss/spit 'h' for example), because she is Miqo'te. Though since her tribe seems to be separated from Gridania and other Keeper tribes, I bet they have their own accent that they're not even aware of since they speak what is probably their own variant of the old language. (OT, just got me musing.)
I don't think I ever have seen anything from NPCs or lore stating that Miqo'te, or any other race for that matter, have or had their own language, so I'm pretty sure I might have just assumed on that one. But it made sense that a culture as different as Miqo'te, along with the fact that we know they migrated from a place that wasn't connected to Eorzea by land all made me kind of guess that them having their own unique language made sense.
I never did really figure out a way to RP Manari having an accent because I have no idea what this accent could even sound like. I love the idea of it though, and I'd like to bring it out a bit more in ARR when Manari will be returning to her roots anyway. I would really like to find some way to implement a subtle accent with her. I'm not sure how to even RP the hissing either. I feel like something like that might get annoying if I RPed it constantly. Hmmm.... I'm going to have to think on this more.
RE: RPC Census, Part IX (Literacy) - Valan - 06-11-2013
Sarah can speak without any particular accent. she can read and write but her skill are under the average because she never went to school, due her nomadic life style.
despite the origin of her family sarah can barely know few garleans words (mainly insults)
RE: RPC Census, Part IX (Literacy) - Aysun - 06-11-2013
(06-11-2013, 10:58 AM)Manari Wrote:(06-10-2013, 05:22 PM)Aysun Wrote:(06-09-2013, 11:28 PM)Manari Wrote: She speaks with a traditional miqo'te accent, if such a thing exists. Â They say their words in a way only Miqo'te can pronounce, so I assume that it does exist.
I wouldn't call that an accent really, rather just having the ability produce the extra sounds described in the naming conventions thread (the hiss/spit 'h' for example), because she is Miqo'te. Though since her tribe seems to be separated from Gridania and other Keeper tribes, I bet they have their own accent that they're not even aware of since they speak what is probably their own variant of the old language. (OT, just got me musing.)
I don't think I ever have seen anything from NPCs or lore stating that Miqo'te, or any other race for that matter, have or had their own language, so I'm pretty sure I might have just assumed on that one. Â But it made sense that a culture as different as Miqo'te, along with the fact that we know they migrated from a place that wasn't connected to Eorzea by land all made me kind of guess that them having their own unique language made sense.
I never did really figure out a way to RP Manari having an accent because I have no idea what this accent could even sound like. Â I love the idea of it though, and I'd like to bring it out a bit more in ARR when Manari will be returning to her roots anyway. Â I would really like to find some way to implement a subtle accent with her. Â I'm not sure how to even RP the hissing either. Â I feel like something like that might get annoying if I RPed it constantly. Â Hmmm.... Â I'm going to have to think on this more.
I would not even try with the hissspitthing, tbh.. the "h" in words implies they're pronouncing it differently because Manari's a Miqo'te. Doesn't mean you have to do anything in game with your text, it's just.. assumed.
I also think it is implied that there was an old language for Miqo'te (and likely the other races too, considering), even if there's no hard lore on it yet, just by the naming conventions. It's rather hard to RP in accent imo to begin with, without ending up talking like the sailors in Limsa, but Manari has a "style" of speaking that is her own already, so I wouldn't worry about defining an accent
/OT
RE: RPC Census, Part IX (Literacy) - Dehqon - 06-18-2013
Since my primary character comes from a family that collected books, it makes sense that she'd have learned to read, write, and eventually speak the language before being sent out to live on her own.
RE: RPC Census, Part IX (Literacy) - Desphiria - 06-21-2013
I believe that Izaria's going to be able to read, write, and speak very well.
RE: RPC Census, Part IX (Literacy) - Rio van Rosch - 06-21-2013
Rurufi's able to read, write, and speak Eorzean pretty decently well; being a native speaker and all. She's not exactly a novelist, but her vocabulary is at least decently large.