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+--- Thread: FC vs LS (/showthread.php?tid=3862)
RE: FC vs LS - FreelanceWizard - 08-22-2013
(08-22-2013, 07:25 PM)Eva Wrote: This is kind of how we're probably going to be doing it with Crystalline as well after seeing it in action in Beta, since a couple of our members wanted to join other FC's for varying reasons. Our plan is not really to use the FC chat for anything substantial and keep most of our content/conversation happening over the linkpearl. We're still hammering out all the nuances though since there's that balancing act between wanting to keep an accurate roster and use the FC to its fullest (thus providing perks to those members who remain a part of it), but also not wanting to exclude anyone or leave anyone feeling like a second-class member. It's tough.
Indeed so. One solution I've been kicking around is keeping our OOC channel as an LS as well, but then we've got this FC channel that doesn't get used.
At that point, other than the housing (which has immense RP uses) and name recognition via tag, what's the benefit of an FC? A big PvE FC that's RP friendly can provide every other FC advantage faster. Originally, we were going to use the IC LS just for our "Dear Friends" (external allies) and keep FC chat as a private IC channel, but I didn't want to pass on players who joined, say, Wildsky or Unity for their PvE desires, nor did I want to block people from joining who would ICly swear the oath but are already members of another FC.
It's certainly a complicated problem... do we have any other LS+FC leaders willing to weigh in with their thoughts?
EDIT: On the topic of RP progression guilds, one of the most hardcore progression guilds on Firiona Vie in EQ was Prime Nightmare, which was an evil-only medium to heavy RP guild. Just sayin'.
RE: FC vs LS - Naunet - 08-22-2013
(08-22-2013, 07:38 PM)Kaln Wrote: We were one of the top raiding guilds on the server, and we still held RP events three or four times a week.Â
I'm honestly not intending to be rude, but you were one of the top raiding guilds on an RP server. I played on Ravenholdt in WoW, and the guild I ran was consistently in the top five on the server, but I know that doesn't really mean much. It was Ravenholdt. Not exactly a bastion of amazing PvE potential.
Regardless, it's not like I'm saying people can't do whatever they want, or try whatever they want. IC Free Company. OOC Free Company. OOC Linkshell. IC Linkshell. Bunch of both or don't join any at all. All that matters is what you, yourself want to do. I just thought I'd post why I personally have chosen to be in an OOC Free Company. I am not shaming anyone, and I'd rather others didn't treat my decision as though it were some sleight.
RE: FC vs LS - Khaze'to Zhwan - 08-22-2013
I have to agree with Naunet here, for us in the EU, we wanted a single place where we could interact and do end game content when the majority of the server is asleep, because we are basing our FC on time zone and activity level and nothing else we are drawing a lot of people whose characters would not perhaps get along IC. Â So for us having it OOC and then RPing in LS's makes all the sense in the world.
RE: FC vs LS - Ashren Dotharl - 08-22-2013
See, this is what doesn't make any sense to me. Basically what you're saying is that if I were in a FC that was RP and PvE oriented I'd effectively have to pick one or the other, because for whatever reason you can't balance both within a single entity. But if I were to split that, make an RP LS, and a PvE FC, somehow managing two different groups makes it easier to balance? How does that logic make any sense at all?
At least with a dualistic FC you have the benefit of insuring that everyone progresses together, where as if you split it so RP is in LS and PvE is in FC, you run the risk of being left behind and replaced if you give priority to RP over PvE. Ultimately it doesn't make sense why you would need to keep the two separated from one another if you were going to split your focus anyways.
RE: FC vs LS - Naunet - 08-22-2013
Another plus for PvE that FCs have is a higher member cap. PvE guilds tend to need significantly larger player pools than RP guilds. That's not to say that RP guilds can't be big, of course, though personally I prefer RP groups that are no more than 20 or so people. But consider that end game content will include 24 man raids. To sustain a consistent raiding roster, you're going to need a great deal more than just 24 people in your guild, not counting social members you may want to bring in to keep things lively (which is something Unity has a place for, as the FC is meant first as an LGBT safe-space).
For me, linkshells make more sense as roleplay tools, as they allow for the establishment of multiple IC connections for a character. You can only be in one FC, after all, and no matter how well a second FC may align with your character's interests, you can't join a second one, or a third. That's where linkshells really shine.
(08-22-2013, 07:54 PM)Ashren Snow Wrote: But if I were to split that, make an RP LS, and a PvE FC, somehow managing two different groups makes it easier to balance?
*snip*
Ultimately it doesn't make sense why you would need to keep the two separated from one another if you were going to split your focus anyways.
First, you really don't have to be so aggressive. It's not like I'm telling you you can't do whatever the hell you want. All I've done is explain why I have made the choice for an OOC free company.
To somewhat answer your first question, the two groups have dramatically different recruitment goals, so separating them can make things easier.
Secondly, sometimes particular concepts don't translate into an IC thing. I didn't want to force people to RP in Unity, as its concept is based around being a social hub and safe-space for LGBT and allied players. With that in mind, those of us who had come up with an RP group concept turned the CRA into a separate linkshell so that we could better refine our recruitment. The two groups have completely different applications that reflect these recruitment goals, and completely different requirements for members. Combining them simply wouldn't work, because Unity is not the CRA, and the CRA is not Unity.
RE: FC vs LS - Cesar - 08-23-2013
LS and FC should be IC I think. That's why you join an RP server correct? I just wish we had to be IC all the time. That would solve it all!Â
I mean why not? We are the officially unofficial RP servers of FFXIV. I guess I am one of those fanatics who wants to recreate a virtual world the most realistically immersing as possible. Because honestly, you can find a game to go PvE grind for things. If we kept it all IC yes it would take substantially longer to reach end game and get all the cool shiny weapons and armors we all fawn over. BUT imagine the ride there..... -whew- THAT would be amazing. Another plus is if it was server wide IC it would honestly promote LS/FC to LS/FC teaming up. At least it would in my brain, which is a frightening place i must admit.
RE: FC vs LS - Faustina - 08-23-2013
I am in agreement with Ashren, Kaln and others here. In WoW I was in a guild that did both RP and PVE as well as some PVP. We did it all and had no problems managing it. I am not a hardcore raider by any means, but I did a lot of Raid Leading in my guild and we managed to be very successful at it. To me, it's not really a competition to see WHO GETS THROUGH CONTENT FIRST ON THE SERVER, but more of a I want to see all the content in this game, and do it with like-minded people that I enjoy gaming with. I also enjoy the challenge of raiding.
At the same time, our guild had a rich backstory and history, and we had regular super fun RP events on top of regular RPing. Being new to this whole LS/FC business, I intend to seek out a FC that does both RP and PVE (with maybe some PVP too, though not required) on the server. I intend to keep LS for other things, like having a place to chat with my friends when we're all doing different things and aren't in a party together.Â
Maybe it just comes from the sense of community (including making RL friends that I now see regularly outside of gaming) I had with my guild in WoW, but I find it most enriching to create stories with people I see as part of my 'group' as a whole. To each their own, but I have seen PVE/RP guilds done successfully first hand, so that is what I want to find on Balmung.
RE: FC vs LS - Ashren Dotharl - 08-23-2013
(08-23-2013, 12:57 PM)Faustina Wrote: I am in agreement with Ashren, Kaln and others here. In WoW I was in a guild that did both RP and PVE as well as some PVP. We did it all and had no problems managing it. I am not a hardcore raider by any means, but I did a lot of Raid Leading in my guild and we managed to be very successful at it. To me, it's not really a competition to see WHO GETS THROUGH CONTENT FIRST ON THE SERVER, but more of a I want to see all the content in this game, and do it with like-minded people that I enjoy gaming with. I also enjoy the challenge of raiding.This pretty much sums up my sentiments perfectly. For me I've never played in a game before that even allowed you to separate RP from PvE as far as guild was concerned, and most of the best RP I've encountered came from doing Guild based RP events. For me, so long as you don't care about rushing through content, I see no reason a group can't be an RP Guild and still be a functioning PvE or PvP Guild as well. In most cases, raids take place one or two nights a week, which leaves 4-5 days in the week to RP whenever you want.
At the same time, our guild had a rich backstory and history, and we had regular super fun RP events on top of regular RPing. Being new to this whole LS/FC business, I intend to seek out a FC that does both RP and PVE (with maybe some PVP too, though not required) on the server. I intend to keep LS for other things, like having a place to chat with my friends when we're all doing different things and aren't in a party together.Â
Maybe it just comes from the sense of community (including making RL friends that I now see regularly outside of gaming) I had with my guild in WoW, but I find it most enriching to create stories with people I see as part of my 'group' as a whole. To each their own, but I have seen PVE/RP guilds done successfully first hand, so that is what I want to find on Balmung.
RE: FC vs LS - Naunet - 08-23-2013
(08-23-2013, 09:32 AM)Cesar Wrote: I mean why not? We are the officially unofficial RP servers of FFXIV. I guess I am one of those fanatics who wants to recreate a virtual world the most realistically immersing as possible. Because honestly, you can find a game to go PvE grind for things. If we kept it all IC yes it would take substantially longer to reach end game and get all the cool shiny weapons and armors we all fawn over.
Then I'd be barred from either playing the game at all, or just never roleplaying the characters I enjoy roleplaying. :<
I tend to focus my RP on non-combat characters, or characters who just generally wouldn't be doing a lot of the stuff that your character "does" over the course of gameplay.
RE: FC vs LS - Khaze'to Zhwan - 08-23-2013
So is everyone ignoring my post or do they acknowledge that in that case at least it makes sense for it not to be IC.
RE: FC vs LS - Naunet - 08-23-2013
(08-23-2013, 01:45 PM)Khaze Wrote: So is everyone ignoring my post or do they acknowledge that in that case at least it makes sense for it not to be IC.
They kinda ignored mine, too, but it's okay. ^^; There are definitely instances where you have an idea for a group of people that simply doesn't jive with whatever roleplay concept you want to use for a group. It just depends on the concept you have, as to whether or not an IC or OOC free company is more appropriate.
RE: FC vs LS - Tyriont - 08-23-2013
At the end of the day, the entire reason (in my opinion) that we see OOC FCs so much more often is because of the "You can only have one" restriction.
Wild Sky is one of those who had an IC LS and an OOC FC. The reason behind our FC being OOC (OH GOD ALL THE ACRONYMS) is to give RPers a chance to engage in that end-game content without having to worry about IC restrictions. For example! Let's say Roleplayer A and Roleplayer B are good friends who enjoy playing together but their characters are currently liable to kill one another on sight. By having the FC be OOC, they can do the content together without detracting from their RP.
Now, I understand that there's a lot of people who would prefer to RP out absolutely everything. And that's cool too! By having multiple options, lots of people get to find exactly the type of group that fits what they want to do which is awesome! Everyone gets to do what they want how they want and everyone is happy forever.
There is nothing saying that you can't RP and be incredibly efficient in the PvE content too. There's also nothing saying you HAVE to RP the PvE content. The ability to choose from the options is sort of the reason the RPC was founded in the first place, right? Bringing us all together so we can all hang out and be awesome, RPing with each other in the ways that we enjoy the most?
Someone going with an OOC FC isn't a slight against the RP community's gaming abilities. Someone going with an IC FC doesn't mean that they think they're a better Roleplayer than someone in an OOC FC. Just means they have different playing styles. All are viable options
RE: FC vs LS - Faustina - 08-23-2013
(08-23-2013, 01:53 PM)Naunet Wrote:(08-23-2013, 01:45 PM)Khaze Wrote: So is everyone ignoring my post or do they acknowledge that in that case at least it makes sense for it not to be IC.
They kinda ignored mine, too, but it's okay. ^^; There are definitely instances where you have an idea for a group of people that simply doesn't jive with whatever roleplay concept you want to use for a group. It just depends on the concept you have, as to whether or not an IC or OOC free company is more appropriate.
I was not ignoring anyone, merely stating my own opinion on this topic :3 You all have valid reasons to prefer keeping them separate, but that may not work for everyone. Like I said, to each their own (or personal preference). It's nice that there are a ton of options for us all to find our own niche
 Both of you have a completely different mindset/play style than me and that is perfectly okay!And Ashren, you are perfectly right too in that raiding usually only happens twice a week which leaves ample time for other things to happen. Even being busy with Raid Leading, I had plenty of time to write my stories with my friends/guildies, and to also do other things in the game.Â
I also like Tyriont's set up with keeping the same group but using the Linkshells to do any RP that is held separate from Free Company events. Again, there is something for everyone in this game, it seems to me.
RE: FC vs LS - Tyriont - 08-23-2013
(08-23-2013, 02:08 PM)Faustina Wrote: I also like Tyriont's set up with keeping the same group but using the Linkshells to do any RP that is held separate from Free Company events. Again, there is something for everyone in this game, it seems to me.
I should clarify, the Free Company is also open to all regardless of membership in the Linkshell. That way people who want to play with us (or let's face it, who want to play with me because I'm awesome) can do so even if they don't fit into the story of the Linkshell.
RE: FC vs LS - Naunet - 08-23-2013
(08-23-2013, 02:08 PM)Faustina Wrote: And Ashren, you are perfectly right too in that raiding usually only happens twice a week which leaves ample time for other things to happen.
Well, for me personally, I've been involved in and know others who participated in raid groups that ran 3-4 times a week, so there is that. It's a different attitude towards PvE.