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Conjurers and Thaumaturgy - Printable Version

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RE: Conjurers and Thaumaturgy - Mr.Phyllo - 07-28-2014

That was pretty rude, Boo. It's just a discussion there's no need to get snippy.

RE: Conjurers and Thaumaturgy - LiadansWhisper - 07-28-2014

(07-28-2014, 03:43 PM)Addison Hines Wrote: That was pretty rude, Boo. It's just a discussion there's no need to get snippy.

I didn't read that as snippy.  Never a good idea to read tone into text.  :-\

RE: Conjurers and Thaumaturgy - Mr.Phyllo - 07-28-2014

Well I don't see how it DOESNT work that way.

Time start a canpire, you blow air on a spark to create a flame.
When the temperature drops, waterfalls become ice and the more water that continues to freeze, the larger the ice becomes
And everyone knows lightning comes from the earth. 

Elements of nature can be put on a chart, but science cannot prove or disprove magic. The world changes. Theories change. I would hate to live in a world where everything is concrete and facts. I like things to be open to interpretation.

RE: Conjurers and Thaumaturgy - LiadansWhisper - 07-28-2014

(07-28-2014, 01:43 PM)Nako Wrote: for the purpose of the elements I present to you the elemental wheel:[Image: ffxiv-elemental-wheel-key1.png]

(07-28-2014, 05:06 PM)Addison Hines Wrote: Well I don't see how it DOESNT work that way.

Time start a canpire, you blow air on a spark to create a flame.
When the temperature drops, waterfalls become ice and the more water that continues to freeze, the larger the ice becomes
And everyone knows lightning comes from the earth. 

Elements of nature can be put on a chart, but science cannot prove or disprove magic. The world changes. Theories change. I would hate to live in a world where everything is concrete and facts. I like things to be open to interpretation.

It doesn't work because of that.  *points up at the diagram*

RE: Conjurers and Thaumaturgy - FreelanceWizard - 07-28-2014

Well, when we're talking RP setting metaphysics, it works how the devs' lore says it works -- and the lore, as explained by the in-game book that's being referenced, indicates how those specific metaphysics operate in the setting (or, at least, how a well-respected mage whose writings influence the modern practice of magic believes they operate).

Characters are, of course, able to disagree with that, but ICly, that'd be like disagreeing with Newton on how gravity works. It's not likely to get a positive reaction. OOCly, all we can do is look at what lore is provided and say, "That's how it is." I don't particularly like the lore about Conjury and Succor, but it is the lore, and so I've got work with it.

RE: Conjurers and Thaumaturgy - Boo the Hamster - 07-29-2014

(07-28-2014, 03:43 PM)Addison Hines Wrote: That was pretty rude, Boo. It's just a discussion there's no need to get snippy.
The point isn't to be rude.  I'm pointing out that evidence was shown beforehand that says it doesn't work.  You could possibly say that it may react the way you said it would with magitek, but when it comes to the magic in this game, it doesn't work that way.  I would assume that the aether works the same way in magitek as it does in magic, but anyone could agree or disagree since there is no lore to base off of it. In the way you stated it, yes, it would make sense. When it naturally occurs, yes, it will work that way.

You may not personally like it, but this has been studied through the lore.  There is little point in this particular part to be interpreted when it is a concrete rule.  Not everything needs to be set in stone, but aether, in my opinion, is a rule that absolutely -needs- to be concrete in order for a story in this setting to make sense.

Though I'm just repeating what Freelance Wizard stated at this point in all honesty.

RE: Conjurers and Thaumaturgy - Yssen - 07-29-2014

I do have to point out that the book this is coming from may be a sticky point. They have changed a lot of the lore for caster type stuff since 1.0. The book being referred to is from a time when Conjurers had all the elemental magic (and when elemental weaknesses were actually a thing mechanically). Back then, Thuamaturges didn't have elemental magic at all, they use Astral and Umbral spells. While we can still see vestiges of those days in the current game, we do have to remember that all of that got practically thrown out from a lore stand point. This happened in 1.0 when they shifted how magic worked for CONs and THMs. Long story short, that book may have been effectively retconned as lore. Possibly when they changed magic in 1.0, but most certainly when ARR started up.

Which element tops which is no longer a thing, and I am not sure there is a book around that says that it is now.

RE: Conjurers and Thaumaturgy - Gwenneth - 07-29-2014

I'm sorry for causing a debate, everyone.  ;__;

I've been reading over this also-relevant thread on the side, and I really appreciate all of the feedback and discussion so far.  I'm admittedly a huge lore-stickler, so being able to play a character while working with lore is really important to me, and I'm learning quite a bit from these posts and others on the boards.

Heart

RE: Conjurers and Thaumaturgy - Unnamed Mercenary - 07-29-2014

(07-29-2014, 05:12 PM)Reima Wrote: I'm sorry for causing a debate, everyone.  ;__;

Don't be sorry for causing debates. If anything, that just shows how much everyone loves the lore. Threads like this are good for everyone. At least, good for lore consistency if we want to call it that.

RE: Conjurers and Thaumaturgy - LiadansWhisper - 07-29-2014

(07-29-2014, 05:12 PM)Reima Wrote: I'm sorry for causing a debate, everyone.  ;__;

I've been reading over this also-relevant thread on the side, and I really appreciate all of the feedback and discussion so far.  I'm admittedly a huge lore-stickler, so being able to play a character while working with lore is really important to me, and I'm learning quite a bit from these posts and others on the boards.

Heart

How dare you!

...no, seriously, if people don't post interesting threads, I get bored.  D:

RE: Conjurers and Thaumaturgy - synaesthetic - 07-30-2014

(07-29-2014, 06:35 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: ...no, seriously, if people don't post interesting threads, I get bored.  D:

Clearly we haven't been arguing enough then. Big Grin

RE: Conjurers and Thaumaturgy - Berrod Armstrong - 07-30-2014

(07-28-2014, 02:55 PM)Nebbs Wrote: All very scholarly.. I would offer an alternative based on Chakra and I understand the Monk has some elemental sides?

These are the normal colours but we could switch in the FF colours in
  • Thought (Spirit)/Violet - Enlightenment/Spiritual/Wisdom
  • Light (Luminescence) /Indigo - Intuition/6th Sense
  • Ether/Blue - Creativity/Openness/Healing 
  • Air/Green - Love/Warmth/Forgiveness
  • Fire/Yellow - Willpower/Anger 
  • Water/Orange - Sexuality/Needs/Desire
  • Earth/Red - Survival/Root/Base
I do use this as the basis for my characters alternative view on things, and use of crystals to heal by balancing the body's flows etc..

I have a similar outlook for my monk as well -- just a few differences!
  • Unaspected/Violet/Crown - Enlightenment/Bliss
  • Unaspected/Indigo/Third Eye - Intuition/Deeper senses
  • Wind/Blue/Throat - Creativity/Speech/Declaration
  • Fire/Green/Heart - Love/Compassion/Passion
  • Lightning/Yellow/Solar Plexus - Will/Sense of Self
  • Unaspected/Orange/Sacral - Sexuality/Needs/Desires
  • Earth/Red/Root - Survival/Instinct/Base
Each of his open chakras (he has up to the heart) grants him a new wellspring of aether in addition to a few potential abilities (translated from the moveset into something reasonable!). I purposely left out water and ice because it didn't seem like monks had access to either of those. 

Three of the chakras I've placed as unaspected, since he uses his Sacral for pure life energy. Potentially, his third eye simply gives him a greater sensitivity to and interpretation of aether, so I hadn't assigned an element to it. As for the crown, the purely spiritual nature of it seemed like 'PURE AETHER OMG'. 

Berrod had checked out the Thaumaturge's guild, where he found out he didn't have what it took to control ice -- essentially locking him out of the class. The same applied to Conjury; the man can't do water to save his life -- or the life of anyone else. No Conjury for him!

[sub]...he also hates to read (and cannot spell well at all) so screw Arcanima. Godsdamn. Everything else is fair game though.[/sub]

I love your outlook on it, Nebbs, it's always great to see people who take it to that level.

[sub]this sort of thing is so much fun aahhhh[/sub]

RE: Conjurers and Thaumaturgy - LiadansWhisper - 07-30-2014

(07-30-2014, 06:13 AM)synaesthetic Wrote:
(07-29-2014, 06:35 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: ...no, seriously, if people don't post interesting threads, I get bored.  D:

Clearly we haven't been arguing enough then. Big Grin

We can change that!

Your eyeball looks weird.  Tongue

RE: Conjurers and Thaumaturgy - Nebbs - 07-30-2014

(07-30-2014, 09:10 AM)Berrod Armstrong Wrote:
(07-28-2014, 02:55 PM)Nebbs Wrote: .. Chakra ...

... Monk Chakra stuff..
I love your outlook on it, Nebbs, it's always great to see people who take it to that level.

[sub]this sort of thing is so much fun aahhhh[/sub]

Yay .. nice to have a similar view. I have not played Monk much but it was omone who told me. Now I have to go play it Smile

This was one of the main things I borrowed from
Show Content


RE: Conjurers and Thaumaturgy - Gwenneth - 07-30-2014

(07-30-2014, 04:21 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:
(07-30-2014, 06:13 AM)synaesthetic Wrote:
(07-29-2014, 06:35 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: ...no, seriously, if people don't post interesting threads, I get bored.  D:

Clearly we haven't been arguing enough then. Big Grin

We can change that!

Your eyeball looks weird.  Tongue

I...  I love this community.  Oh my word.  xD