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RE: Warrior or Paladin? - K'nahli - 01-05-2015
Warriors are nice for the extra damage on the side but they take a lot more work if you want to play them to near-maximum potential whereas with Paladins you can pretty much take things lazily and not worry so much about aggro when it comes to end game.
Combos:
When it comes to Paladins, they have a three-skill-combo that is all that you will be doing for most fights along with a couple of skills that are off global cooldown. Outside of that combo you will only be popping buffs of some sort. A secondary, two-skill combo exists but is used primarily for large mob pulls as it regenerates MP needed for your AoE, enmity-generating skill; Flash.
Warriors have two, three-skill-combos combos that, unless you are choosing to be lazy, you will be using in most fights. One being the enmity generating combo and the the other being a damage boosting(for both you and melee DPS) OR damage mitigating combo, depending on the final, third skill you attach to it.
They have two skills off global cooldown like Paladin, but one's potential use is subjective to the boss/mobs you are engaging(see: Stuns) and another that can only be used when less than 20% health is remaining on your target.
Stuns:
When it comes to stuns, both have advantages and disadvantages. Paladins have a stun that is on global cooldown and therefore only has to wait little over two seconds before it can be reused, unlike Warriors who have a 30 second cooldown.
In general, Warriors have it easier since its boss stuns that you will really want to have the advantage with and they can use their stun exactly when they need it. Paladins however need to wait for the stun to come off cooldown if they have just used another skill, and that can be scary for some fast-casting skills by the enemy.
Having said that, Paladins have a silence(off GCD) and Warriors do not.
Noteworthy Skills:
Aside from typical mitigation skills, Paladins have two nice skills called Cover and Hallowed Ground.
Cover allows you to take all physical damage directed toward a particular party member for ten seconds(so long as they stay within relatively, close range) and is one of those skills I love getting the chance to use since who doesn't like being helpful?
Hallowed Ground is a 10 second invulnerability skill(with a massive cooldown) that basically gives you a temporary godmode that is very handy for those rare instances where your healer fails and its down to you/(and your DPS) to finish off the remainder of the fight or incur a reset. It's also a safety net for mistakes made by your party that may imminently risk your death and also a way to take a load off of the healer during significantly, large mob pulls.
Warrior has a sort of similar skill to Hallowed Ground with the exception that you only get six seconds worth of it and your health will continue to decrease(just not past 1 hp).
Summary:
So put it simply, Paladins are great for tanking but Warriors have a great potential to, simultaneously, significantly increase the DPS output and, if you put some time into learning and understanding the class better, you can do some serious self-healing and work your way out of dangerous situations that a Paladin could not without the aid of a healer.
RE: Warrior or Paladin? - Sounsyy - 01-05-2015
I main both WAR and PLD and have played them both in all content from speed running dungeons to final coil. Ultimately, it comes down to personal preference and playstyle as neither WAR nor PLD outclasses the other in a way that would make the other tank obsolete. Each class simply fills different niches of tanking. As such, I recommend leveling both for a few different reasons. 1) You may find you prefer one over the other and not the one you expected to like. 2) Both tanks require cross-class abilities from one another. 3) When you get into 8-24 man content, where there are more than one tank, it's important to know just how the other tanks function in tandem with each other.
(PLD) Paladins are your classic mitigation tanks. They have lower HP than their Warrior counterparts, but make up for it with a latent 20% damage mitigation from Shield Oath and several other buffs which reduce the amount of all incoming damage by significant percentages. However, these abilities are on long cooldowns, which is where the trick of playing PLD effectively comes in - which is cooldown management. Knowing when to pop which cooldowns and sticking to a cooldown rotation in order to maximize your mitigation and minimize Healer's resources keeping you up.
PLDs generally are not (but can be!) strong attackers. They have a single Enmity (Hate/Threat) weaponskill combo which you'll spam until the end of time to gain hate. And an additional weaponskill which restores Mana for Flash. PLDs have two AoE spells Flash and Circle of Scorn which are useful in gaining enmity on multiple enemies, but overall these abilities are kind of lackluster for overall hate generation.
I consider PLD the easier of the two tank classes to learn and is a solid choice for folks new to tanking in FFXIV or in general.
(WAR) Warriors, on the other hand, are your soak tanks and they can dish it almost as well as they take it. These tanks sacrifice damage mitigation for higher HP pools and moderate HP regeneration. Warriors generally have a better hate generation than your average PLD also because, unlike their PLD counterparts, Warriors must alternate weaponskill combo trees to maximize their damage or weaken their enemies' damage as well as maintain enmity against one or many enemies.
Warriors have an enmity tree, a damage tree, and a mitigation tree. And each of these weaponskill trees builds a stack of "Wrath." Each stack of Wrath improves a Warrior's critical hit rate and at 5 Stacks a Warrior can choose to spend these stacks on one of three high-powered abilities which function in tandem with the above weaponskill tress. You have one ability for AoE enmity (Steel Cyclone), one ability for damage (Unchained), and one for mitigation (Inner Beast). As a Warrior you'll need to learn when to use these abilities as their effects are short lasting.
Warrior is the more complex of the two classes (IMO), but, for me, it's more fun as WAR you are always busy maintaining buffs/debuffs/Wrath in an effort to hold hate and stay alive. WAR is for those adrenaline junkies who love watching their HP dive like a bungee jumper.
As for RP and Lore, Chachan did a pretty good job of that so there's really not too much to add. ^^ But if you have more specific lore questions feel free to ask! Or specific WAR/PLD tanking questions - I can answer those too. Hope this helps! ^^
RE: Warrior or Paladin? - Gegenji - 01-05-2015
(01-05-2015, 04:08 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: As for RP and Lore, Chachan did a pretty good job of that so there's really not too much to add. ^^
I got praised by Lore-senpai!
RE: Warrior or Paladin? - K'nahli - 01-05-2015
While I play and love Paladin as a class, I voted for Warrior simply because it is more complex and versatile in my opinion while NOT forcing you to adhere to it's slightly more, difficult playstyle.
That is to say, you can play a Warrior just as you would a Paladin if you really wanted. It's not advisable but if you like the class and are adverse to a lot of extras that can seem confusing at first then you can sure as hell do it.
I won't speak for coil though, I'm sure you need to step up and try more when it comes to that, haha..Â
**zero experience past T4 - - - zero experience as tank at all**
RE: Warrior or Paladin? - Recoil - 01-05-2015
I've raided with both.
I definitely prefer the paladin, but only because the standard skill priority is less complex than the warrior's.
RE: Warrior or Paladin? - Melkire - 01-05-2015
Sounsyy covered just about everything.
To sum up:
- Paladin is a standard "cooldown suite" tank. It's simpler.
- Warrior is an atypical "damage soak" tank. It's more complex.
- Neither is "better" than the other, as they're fairly well-balanced at the moment for most if not all levels of play.
- Most endgame raid teams will want one of each, so you won't be left out of content regardless of your choice.
- Which you should choose comes down to personal preference.
RE: Warrior or Paladin? - Seriphyn - 01-05-2015
I like Sounsyy's reply the best, I would second that. I would also second the idea that tanks should main both, to make them more versatile as a player.
RE: Warrior or Paladin? - Nester - 01-05-2015
This has been and hopefully still will be a great thread for people trying to make this sort've decision. Keep it up!
Oh and fyi, I'm gong to start with Marauder/Warrior. As I train up Gladiator to reach Warrior, I'll get a feeling for that side of the stage as well. Perhaps I will ultimately be a renaissance man when it comes to tanks. I'll be them all!Â
RE: Warrior or Paladin? - Aaron - 01-05-2015
I have a feeling DRK is going to be a mix of WAR & PLD
RE: Warrior or Paladin? - Ilwe'ran - 01-05-2015
There is none better than the others, it only depends on what the player fancy. So.. Don't rely on people opinion, test both and pick the one you prefer. They share the gear now anyway, so nothing stops you to play both and just pick the one you fancy depending on your mood
.
RE: Warrior or Paladin? - Parvacake - 01-05-2015
I'm all about the WAR
Mostly because I loved Overpower too much to pass it up.
RE: Warrior or Paladin? - Ilwe'ran - 01-05-2015
I would like to add that whatever people can tell you, there is no content that is made specificaly for a class or another. All can always work and, even though the dynamic of the group can change, everything can be achieved as long as people work together (even though some combo are greatly appreciated 'cause they are complementary).
What you have to keep in mind is always your own fun. If you begin to play a class because X or Y told you that this class is interesting and not because you like it, you might just end to play something you don't fancy much.
I believe that someone liking the class he's playing will be more interested by the idea of "mastering" it and will play better and have more fun than someone who just follows other people advices.
And this is the key here.. It's a game and you should have fun there, so pick whatever you fancy, as long as it's fun and you like it
!
RE: Warrior or Paladin? - Steel Wolf - 01-05-2015
Having played both to cap and run dungeons as both, I definitely voted Warrior.
Mechanically, Paladin is very much a fire-and-forget, solid rotation tanking class. There's almost no deviation from your three to five skills, bar the occasional mitigation ability depending on situation. However, even if you don't carry through with PLD tanking as the primary, the Flash ability is beyond worth it if you're a tanker.
Warrior on the other hand...yo....YO. You go from being a metallic turtle to being a freakin' einherjar. Charge. Smash. Chop. Swallow your enemies in explosions of heavy steel and see them cower before your might!!
...ahem...anyway--yes, they're a soak and slap tank, dishing out hate by aggression and laughing like the Joker whilst being hit. There are several skills that give you heals or debuff your enemies, and alternating rotations over the course of a fight is the key to being a successful warrior. I have personally yet to pop Holmgang except for one time--the "Stand and face me at the edge of DEATH" ability that lets you stay alive down to 1 HP, but I consider that more a blessing than a curse. Otherwise it's alternating rotations, actively maneuvering and herding enemies and kicking off skills that build and spend Wrath, along with other clicks that help you dish out greater hurt or add more HP to your pool.
It's a lot more involved...but a HUGE deal of fun, in my view.
...which all makes me hope that Dark Knight is more of the same, or perhaps a combination of the two. In either case, I'm pretty sure I'm gonna bring Flash along with me regardless. XD
RE: Warrior or Paladin? - Melkire - 01-05-2015
(01-05-2015, 07:17 PM)Steel Wolf Wrote: I have personally yet to pop Holmgang except for one time--the "Stand and face me at the edge of DEATH" ability that lets you stay alive down to 1 HP, but I consider that more a blessing than a curse. Â
Quick tip for WARs: you can use Holmgang as an interrupt. The yanking motion on the chain actually counts as displacement, so it's good for anything that's not immune to such (i.e. anything that isn't a boss). You have to time it right, so it's not easy, and displacement doesn't interrupt -everything-, but it's yet another use case. You can also use it to prevent knockback or displacement on yourself, e.g. laughing off Landslide, but I figure most everyone who plays WAR already knows that.
RE: Warrior or Paladin? - Zyrusticae - 01-05-2015
*ahem*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFhUvcG7LD8