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+--- Thread: Complaint/Rant/Thing: What's with all the aggression lately? (/showthread.php?tid=11216)
RE: Complaint/Rant/Thing: What's with all the aggression lately? - cuideag - 04-21-2015
I admit that I get worked up a LOT easier than I should be considering that I pretend to be a sentient potato in a world where Good King Moggle Mog and Hildibrand are things. I'm trying to be more conscious about sticking my nose into certain threads, trying to remember that no, I don't have to butt heads with every thought I might not agree with.
I've felt better since I have made a more conscious effort to be excellent. It really isn't that hard, even if I have to remind myuself to try.
Still stand by the thought that the RPC is one of the best tools we as roleplayers have to mingle and connect and I do hate the thought that there are people who actively avoid it because of the reputation. Maybe we as a community just need to remember that we are, indeed, a community and make those efforts to make everyone feel included and welcome and valued regardless of whether or not they are new or whether or not they might have some interesting and/or passionate opinions about things.
There's my carebear quota for the week. DRGS DROOL MONKS RULE.
RE: Complaint/Rant/Thing: What's with all the aggression lately? - Faye - 04-21-2015
I know people in my FC, various linkshells, and on Tumblr who avoid the RPC altogether for the increasing hostility here. Truthfully, it's even caused me to consider distancing myself from the RPC, as well.
In my experience, the main cause I've seen driving the negativity is the perception that if someone disagrees with you, they are attacking you personally, or that if someone voices an opinion different from your own--even if they do not address you or your opinion--they're somehow saying your opinion is wrong and you should feel dumb for having it.
Can we please stop this, RPC? People can disagree. People can think different things. A difference of opinion does not mean that someone doesn't respect you, or that you can't respect them, or that you can't be friends, or that you can't role-play together. "I don't agree with your opinion" is not a personal attack. It's pretty dumb to watch people split into cliques and hurl insults at each other based on something as petty, simple, and silly as a debate about the game's lore of all things.
"You're either for me or against me!" thinking is very bad. In every argument, there are not only two very extreme sides and you have to totally love and be 100% on board with one and completely HATE and want to DESTROY the the other! There are more than two sides. There are shades of grey. You can even be all for one side without condemning the other. Many preferences are not mutually exclusive. Liking cats doesn't have to mean you hate dogs, or hate people who like dogs. The end.
Other important things to remember: Someone voicing their opinion does not mean they expect you to share it, nor does it mean they expect you to follow it in your own role-play. Let's please stop mistaking "I don't like when other role-players _____" as "I HATE WHEN OTHER ROLE-PLAYERS _____ SO THEY SHOULD NEVER DO IT AND I'LL PERSONALLY MAKE SURE THEY NEVER DO!"
RE: Complaint/Rant/Thing: What's with all the aggression lately? - Aaron - 04-21-2015
(04-21-2015, 06:31 PM)Kellach Woods Wrote: I've no idea why I keep coming back to these forums.Honestly? This is another problem Kellach pointed out.Â
RP I've gotten because of these forums? None. I got into a RP FC by virtue of my ass needing some schooling on how to WAR proper after I posted in the FFXIV Discussion forum, joining a OOC linkshell.
Comments I've gotten on wiki/IC writing on these forums? Only one, and while it made my day, I've gotten nothing from anything I produced past Sept. 30th which is the majority of the developments made to the character post getting fired.
The RP/FFXIV discussion forums used to be useful, but are filled with so much inane snark that I see no point in continuing to contribute anything, not that I had good contributions before as most of my best posts are kinda shitposting.
Hell, the only interaction I have with anyone here is yelling at Warren from time to time and the Compliment thread at this point. I get the feeling that if I were to join now it'd be extremely difficult to break into anything that's ongoing because nobody gives a fuck about less established folks.
Can this forum have a point again? Not unless people step up. Least I can do is curtail my shitposting and other than this post I'll certainly try to do that.
Lotta people say they'll happily talk rp etc with someone yet never actually do it.
Kurt was another example (hope he doesn't mind me using him) he told me he got zero rp. So I literally found him and we rped and now its at the point Ramona is basically Aaron's adopted sister.
If people say they'll help someone they should make an honest attempt to do it. Otherwise why say it? The people who got lied to eventually get passed and leave or spite everyone. im actually happy Kellach vented this out.
RE: Complaint/Rant/Thing: What's with all the aggression lately? - Cato - 04-21-2015
I think the biggest issue is that many role-players are more than willing to point out how important communication is but then many of those same individuals do not actually seek a resolution to any slight that they perceive.
Another common problem is that people try to point out issues with the community - such as it being legitimately difficult to break into certain role-playing circles - and then a bunch of role-players who often role-play with each other day in, day out emerge to tell everybody how they only have themselves to blame or need to 'try harder'.
I've considered taking my leave of this site more than once but thankfully I've made a few great connections by sticking around. Plus as far as I see it there aren't many alternatives available.
RE: Complaint/Rant/Thing: What's with all the aggression lately? - ChewableMorphine - 04-21-2015
- Post something
- Somebody will find one aspect they don't like about it
- People will respond to that pinpoint
- A thousand miles of irrelevant shit
- ?????
- Profit.
RE: Complaint/Rant/Thing: What's with all the aggression lately? - Oscare - 04-21-2015
I honestly think this goes a little further than just; 'I don't like what you said, therefore you're offending me directly'. Warning that this post might come off as a little crude, so apologies in advance.
There's definitely an overlay of just inner tension and the need to just point out the tiniest semantic or flaw in someone's thoughts -- even if you agree with it or not. I think it's a nice reminder that not all aggression comes from disagreements, but sometimes people just get worked up that their opinion seems to be the minority or they feel like what they think is absolutely ridiculous compared to what another group thinks. And yes, while that is what we would define as a 'disagreement', the aggression didn't stem from the disagreement, but more from the imbalance in population of people who think the same way you do. Cuideag makes a good point; some people are just get angered easily.Â
In this case, it's a problem of sensitivity, which can easily be solved by simply being careful about how you come off when you post or who's posting what. If you know you're going to get set off easily because it's a subject you're sensitive about, it might just be best to not dig your nose in it. Always preview your post and read it over before you post saves a lot of grief in everyone involved.
RE: Complaint/Rant/Thing: What's with all the aggression lately? - No Longer Exists - 04-21-2015
*Peeks out from under his hat*
I'll make this brief....or as brief as I can. Since the dawn of the MMO scene's "Roleplaying Community", contention has been present. There was once a time more than a decade ago where the community itself would rise up and say "Quit it" and issues would be halted by the sheer desire not to be ostracized for being a "insert your chosen expletive here".
Like all good things, this came to an end as MMOs became more widely used. Without getting too political or sociological (and please, read this as evenly as possible) new paradigms have joined in the once sleepy culture of RPers. Most notably, the entitled gamer. I've said my piece on this before in various threads. These are where a lot of opposition stems from, because they personally have a clear-cut view that their opinion is key and anyone not on board is actually assaulting their lifestyle.
Okay, so...this isn't going to be brief after all.
There is no true and right answer to this condition, because it is a matter of respect and morality which in our current age is murky at best. Many of us just want to have a good time, play and smile and log off. Some live and die by the pixellated sword and become so emotionally invested in it that it becomes who they are and we all know what happens when someone disagrees with the core of a person, group, or established method of thinking.Â
Violent (See: Verbally Abusive) response is the desperate act of a cornered critter and challenging an individual's entire being (in this case, the game that they devote themselves to) is tantamount to murdering their household pet in front of them. I'm not saying that it's right or wrong, just that it is....in their perspective.
Others just like to push people, it's enjoyable to them and this is where trolls come from (generally speaking). Some trolls only do it for the, as they put it, lulz and mean no actual ill will beyond being a prat for the sake of laughing at another person's misery.Â
The solution? There isn't one that I can tell, unless we change the way we deal with these behaviors. I have watched this behavior swallow roleplaying chats, forums, and MMOs for at least a decade now and what's left eventually is we resilient few who just keep playing for the sake of RPing surrounded by a horde of bickering trolls and sensitive types, telling a story to each other and logging off. Ignoring the problem does not make it go away, it only removes it from your immediate view.
In the words of George Carlin (May he rest in peace): Scientists say they have found a cure for apathy. However, they claim that no one has the slightest interest in it.
Cheers
-Black Hat
RE: Complaint/Rant/Thing: What's with all the aggression lately? - Fox - 04-21-2015
So after talking with an individual, I was suggested that I put in my comments here too.
I’ve been with the RPC since 2013, I did take a break from XIV to pursue things further in TOR after some things -not- pertaining to the RPC happened. During the time that I was here prior to this year; I always found the RPC and XIV to be incredibly friendly and very helpful. I was rather active, some of the old hat crew might recognize me; but anyway…
I will say after my break in 2014, when I came back this year things have been quite a bit more hostile and negative. Sniping, snarking and all sorts of things seem to be rather prevalent. Maybe like others said it’s because of the Expansion, but that’s not so much an excuse. And saying that “oh just ignore the person†is something concerning because; shouldn’t it be more of “be more considerate� I’m not talking about debating. Debates are fun. But when people take opinions for facts, and berating and passive aggressiveness begins, is where it starts to become concerning.
I understand people may not agree, but there is a way to do it and a way not to. At the same time I’ve also noticed this trend not just in the RPC but online in general. It’s become so easy to be an Anon-Hat with a random name and treat people badly. By badly I mean things like outright snarking to more insidious things (in my opinion) as passive-aggressiveness. Where people are like “I don’t like your opinion, so I’m going to tell you to screw off
“ in a smiling-with-daggers sort of way. I understand that the expansion may have stressed people but honestly it in the end of the day is a game. I come to a game to get away from all the sort of IRL stress and enjoy my time with some awesome people at the end of the day. But… To come to a community that I once really enjoyed only to find it very hostile is disconcerting.
And yes, I have ignored/blacklisted a few people here; but the most disturbing thing was that as soon as I did that? One of the persons put me on their Friend’s List. And that sort of behavior is disturbing and very creepy. And I don’t like it, and I guess I expected a bit more from the RPC considering how much I used to talk about how awesome it was here a couple years back.
That’s not to say I think the RPC is bad, I think it’s still fun… But there are some things that are concerning me as a member of the community. Baiting topics, snark, over sensitivity and passive aggressiveness are things that really need to be scrutinized.  I know I don't have to go into any XYZ topic, but if I do go in a topic I'm finding that it somehow drips over from other threads into new ones that may not even be involved. It's just... Kind of leaking all over.Â
Anyway that’s all I have to say on it, I’m sorry if I treaded on any toes.Â
RE: Complaint/Rant/Thing: What's with all the aggression lately? - Verad - 04-21-2015
(04-21-2015, 10:24 PM)Foxberry Wrote: And yes, I have ignored/blacklisted a few people here; but the most disturbing thing was that as soon as I did that? One of the persons put me on their Friend’s List. And that sort of behavior is disturbing and very creepy. And I don’t like it, and I guess I expected a bit more from the RPC considering how much I used to talk about how awesome it was here a couple years back.
I'm going to out myself on this point - you're probably talking about me. I had not been aware that a quirk of the RPC when blocking people is to notify them by telling them User X has added you to their buddy list. I added in response, and when the situation was explained to me, I never got around to removing the name.
My apologies for that! I certainly didn't mean to disturb you with the action. You're removed, and may continue ignoring me.
RE: Complaint/Rant/Thing: What's with all the aggression lately? - C'kayah Polaali - 04-21-2015
I've certainly noticed a change in the tone of the RPC, and it's a big part of why I don't participate nearly as much with it. I know there's a big chunk of Tylwyth Narah that likewise tends to avoid the site, for the reasons Merc gives here.
There's a telling parallel that can be drawn with the Eve Online RP community, which I used to participate in quite a bit. In the early days of the game, there was a commonly used RP forum hosted on chatsubo for OOC communication among the RPers. It was pretty similar to the RPC. For a few years it operated relatively smoothly, but as time went on it started to go down a similar route as RPC: Discussion threads started veering away from debates and became flames. This was tolerated at first because the Eve RP community prided itself on being just a little more thick skinned than the typical RP community, and because everyone knew the chatsubo/OOC mod team was pretty thinly stretched. However, after a while, some people started theorizing that the mod team was being more permissive with one clique than they were with everyone else. At this point things blew up, and a lot of people stopped using the site. After a little while, there was a mass exodus from the site to a new one, Eve Backstage.
Eve Backstage was originally created specifically to address what a lot of people saw as the shortcomings of chatsubo/OOC: Moderation was not transparent, and there was a culture of permissiveness towards borderline insults.
While the official rules of the forum are pretty standard, there's also a FAQ covering expected behavior which is pretty remarkable. I'm sure a lot of people here would read the guidelines in that FAQ and snort, thinking "that's so hippy-dippy", but you have to keep in mind that those guidelines were created specifically solve a problem.
And those guidelines are moderated against. But what's interesting about Backstage is that all the moderation is transparent. Moderators will moderate a thread and (with very few exceptions) stick the offending posts in a special forum that's publicly visible. Likewise, there's another forum on the site that's publicly postable specifically for discussing how things are being moderated.
Is this something that RPC could benefit from? Probably. Ultimately, it's not my site and I'm not a mod, so it's easy for me to say "Yes, do this". It's telling, though, that chatsubo/OOC is basically dead at this point while Backstage continues to thrive after half a decade of vigorous use.
RE: Complaint/Rant/Thing: What's with all the aggression lately? - Cato - 04-21-2015
My main concern is that if people are genuinely being made to feel unwelcome then the site risks becoming one big giant echo chamber for the views of those who do choose to stick around.Â
More than once I've seen people express a concern that it is very difficult to break into specific role-playing circles or that they're met with a fairly frosty welcome. Each and every time this then leads to 'popular' role-players rushing to offer their advice and subtly imply that those expressing their concerns simply need to try harder.
It all comes across as very dismissive.
Then there's the 'fun' threads which again feel very frigid. Certain posters who are quite obviously not starved for role-play will rush in to drive the discussion towards how awesome it was that they role-played with someone they interact with frequently and this often risks leading the discussion away from new or lesser known role-players who happen to post in the same threads.
Perhaps it isn't intentional but it's food for thought if nothing else.
RE: Complaint/Rant/Thing: What's with all the aggression lately? - Domri Blackblade - 04-21-2015
(04-21-2015, 11:03 PM)Graeham Ridgefield Wrote: More than once I've seen people express a concern that it is very difficult to break into specific role-playing circles or that they're met with a fairly frosty welcome. Each and every time this then leads to 'popular' role-players rushing to offer their advice and subtly imply that those expressing their concerns simply need to try harder.
Really? We're starting with this again?
Christ.
RE: Complaint/Rant/Thing: What's with all the aggression lately? - Chris Ganale - 04-21-2015
Even if it's not the intent of the individuals in question, that is the perception.
RE: Complaint/Rant/Thing: What's with all the aggression lately? - Merri - 04-21-2015
K'nahli more or less hit the nail on the head, but, I figure some things bear repeating. It's easy enough to say, but, it really makes a difference if you take a second to re-read what you've wrote a few times before posting. If it's a subject that's important to you, something you're passionate about, take the time to choose your words carefully. It's easy to get lost in the moment, doubly so if some one seems to be talking down something important to you. This might not always be the case, though, as it can be quite difficult to interpret tone over text.
If some one disagrees with you, that's absolutely okay. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. However, if they're poking at you with thinly veiled sarcasm or snarkiness, there's a line to be drawn. Having an opinion is awesome, but respecting the opinions of everyone else is infinitely more awesome than that.
That being said, I like to try my best to stick to a simple train of thought. "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all."
Some times you disagree. Some times you just don't like what's going on. However, saying something mean or offensive doesn't do anything positive. It's 100% negative, and does literally nothing but make things worse.
Now, as of late the moderator team has taken notice of this shift in attitude. I've been moderating the RPC for a good few years now, and I can say that things haven't been quite the same as of late. We've had our ups and downs over the years, but this is a bit different. We're taking that shift very seriously.
I'm going to be transparent here in mentioning that we have in fact been discussing ways to tackle this issue, as we want to foster a healthy and friendly community to the absolute best of our ability. If it were so easy as slapping a few people on the backs of their hands every now and again, things would be much simpler to deal with, but unfortunately there can be lots to get tangled up dealing with.
I'd also like to point out that the moderator team is here to help. If you have an issue with another member, or you feel like some one is being mean or offensive, there's a plethora of methods to let us know. We're open to PMs, and are always happy to be mediators between feuding parties. The warning feature on posts also does work wonders, and is a great help to us in resolving issues. Some times it might seem like nothing has happened once you've reported a post, but I guarantee you that one of us moderators always sees your warnings, and we do act on them. Some times it just winds up being a warning to the involved member, but the post may remain if it isn't deemed overtly offensive or destructive. The warning system is something we're in the process of revamping, and we will have more information in regards to that soon.
Suffice it to say, we are planning on making a post soon to reinforce the forum rules, and we are going to take a more active stance in policing said rules in order to keep these forums a positive experience for everyone involved. We're all members of the community as well, and none of us want to see negativity.
We'll continue do our very best to make that a reality.
RE: Complaint/Rant/Thing: What's with all the aggression lately? - Faye - 04-21-2015
(04-21-2015, 11:03 PM)Graeham Ridgefield Wrote: Then there's the 'fun' threads which again feel very frigid. Certain posters who are quite obviously not starved for role-play will rush in to drive the discussion towards how awesome it was that they role-played with someone they interact with frequently and this often risks leading the discussion away from new or lesser known role-players who happen to post in the same threads.
Perhaps it isn't intentional but it's food for thought if nothing else.
This. I've noticed that a lot of the nice happy-feely, let's-all-compliment-each-other threads on here are (and please excuse the crass language--there's really no better term) one big circlejerk where the OP's close friends and frequent role-play partners chime in to fawn over each other and anyone else who tries to join is brushed aside, only to be acknowledge if their own friends jump into the fray just to offer them a response. It's really off-putting for any role-players who are new, less active, or simply not a part of the clique in question.