Hydaelyn Role-Players
Rant: Mages, Cuirass, and Trends - Printable Version

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RE: Rant: Mages, Cuirass, and Trends - Quur - 03-30-2015

Let’s have some fun.

Regarding gear:

 NPCs follow the general rule. You don’t see a Black Mage or THM in pure plate and you don’t see a Paladin running into battle in monk gear or… a summoner’s coat. Even the bosses have some sort of consistency. (See Amon in cloth gear but basically a BLM… I think it only is Bard gear because …. All Bard specific gear is over the top and none of the other bosses ‘fit’ the Bard style. The various other bosses all drop sets that… oddly fit their style.) Why should players be the ones able to break that consistency? Not to mention breaking the standard gear style would break the aesthetic of the game. (What does aesthetic have to do with the game? I am pretty certain the people who design the gear, the mobs, and the world consider their work art rather than a game even if you don’t.) (I don’t know every NPC soo take that with salt)

Regarding lore:

If I am not mistaken most of the gear (the nice stuff) in imbued with a certain aetheric nature. The Aetherical Gear (Pink background) I BELIEVE is the result of the gear being imbued with the dying aether of the wearer. The Artifact gear and what not is specifically designed for the user to augment their skills and abilities. Since most of the abilities of the Characters of the FFXIV are aether based (unless you are Garlean then you have techno-punk stuff) it would make sense that the gear is meant to strengthen the wielder in supernatural and appropriate ways. If you wear the wrong stuff you could mess up your aetherical balance and be at a worse state.

 More generic gear probably is a bit harder to justify other than if you are wearing plate you are probably going to get stronger and have more stamina. Lighter and somewhat tighter in the right places gear would give you more agility in combat. Mind and intelligence I do not have an answer.

Regarding RP:

Honestly… if you desperately want a look in RP (not PVE), just level the class. If it means enough to you that you want it badly, you will do it. If you are not willing to put in the effort you probably don’t want it that badly. There is a VAST amount of gear now anyone can use for glamour.  If you want something specific you need to put in the effort this is a GAME before a medium for RP. The game is not designed for your singular ideals. Furthermore, when RPing… just because you are using the Paladin soul stone… it doesn’t mean you can’t RP being a BLM casting flare. (You might get some funny looks but so long as you have RP to back up the actions I don’t think anyone will say UN-UH your armor wouldn’t let you.)

Regarding PVE:

If you are upset you can’t look like a dragoon while healing... you are the special star not someone being limited by archaic designs. Once again it falls back to aesthetic, yours vs the developers. Frankly, the amount of ‘passion’ they put into the designs in this game pretty much cinches that they want a look for the game and while they will give players things to mess with (such as emperors gear) it will always be what the developer LIKES and PREFERS. There are enough all classes gear now to be able to get the look you are after most the time.

Regarding Discussion:

Just because someone says: “Well it is the dev’s call and they made a call” does not mean the person says it is useless to discuss it. The fact of the matter it is true. It may change sometime in the future when they need a bright bauble to get people’s attention. Not everything someone does not like needs a crusade. The developers are not trying to strike at people individually. Not being complacent does not mean trying to force things to what you specifically think is better. Calling out decisions as BACKWARD because you do not agree with them actually is more of ‘shutting down the discussion’ than saying well… devs do not want it; because you are not actually discussing it just saying it is wrong. Frankly, the entire argument reminds me of folks complaining the new car they got is the GT instead of the GTX.

(Uh... well didn't realize my account was Quur... I have two accounts? This is Iex for those curious... looks like I get to explore why the hell I have ... oh.. cause I made an account long time ago for the Wiki...)

RE: Rant: Mages, Cuirass, and Trends - No Longer Exists - 03-30-2015

(03-30-2015, 04:42 PM)Zyrusticae Wrote:
(03-30-2015, 04:26 PM)Black Hat Wrote:
Show Content
See, the thing about all of this is that the devs ARE human beings, they HAVE demonstrated some level of response to player feedback, and the devs, being the true gods of Eorzea that create the reality of the game universe, have all the power in the world to affect this sort of change.

Even more than that, simply talking about this sort of thing and bringing it to their attention takes an absolute bare minimum of effort. I have enough hours in the day to devote to seemingly frivolous affairs like this while still doing things of actual importance, thank you very much. Smile

Remember, the only reason glamours are in the game at all is simply because players really, really wanted it and made it known. We can equally make it known that restricting it arbitrarily is simply not good enough. If you don't care enough to participate and think it a waste of time, that is entirely on you, and it is within your rights to refrain from wasting any further energy on the endeavor. Smile

Granted, you are correct in that it does indeed take little effort. However, consider that this question has already been asked of the devs and their response (I reiterate) was "No." Therefore, that argument is invalid. The effort was made and it was denied. Dazed

I am afraid Melkire is right though, we've spiraled into old discussions already chronicled here in the RPC. As such, I'm going to stop polluting the thread with responses to this part of the conversation. Thank you for your opinion and input. Big Grin

*Retreats back under the hat*

RE: Rant: Mages, Cuirass, and Trends - Aduu Avagnar - 03-31-2015

True, it's not a cuirass, but I'm just going to drop this here:
[Image: 2kvRP79.png]

For those of you wondering, yes, that is a conjury wand.

RE: Rant: Mages, Cuirass, and Trends - Warren Castille - 03-31-2015

I forget which quests, but there are Sultansworn recruits who also wear heavy armor but wield conjurer wands. I think. Been a long while.

Edit: This doesn't change the fact that the reason we don't get transmog options for off-class gear is likely rooted in spaghetti code and has no real lore-appropriate reason why we can't have things.

My pet theory, which I've discussed before with several of the same people whining in this thread, is that the glamour check is limited to equipment you can actually wear and not just a reskin option. If you take multiple-job equipment and glamour AF onto it, then change jobs, the glamour "falls off" for the incorrect job. I think it's just a Can Equip: Y/N flag that gets tripped to disable it.

RE: Rant: Mages, Cuirass, and Trends - Edvyn - 03-31-2015

that's not a wand it's just a little sapling he found that he's going to plant in the heat of battle for the good of the environment

RE: Rant: Mages, Cuirass, and Trends - Kellach Woods - 03-31-2015

(03-31-2015, 07:30 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: My pet theory, which I've discussed before with several of the same people whining in this thread, is that the glamour check is limited to equipment you can actually wear and not just a reskin option. If you take multiple-job equipment and glamour AF onto it, then change jobs, the glamour "falls off" for the incorrect job. I think it's just a Can Equip: Y/N flag that gets tripped to disable it.

Yep and it wouldn't be the first time NPCs are allowed to do things players can't (or that NPCs are repackaged from a version of the game where this was possible.)

RE: Rant: Mages, Cuirass, and Trends - Aduu Avagnar - 03-31-2015

(03-31-2015, 07:30 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: I forget which quests, but there are Sultansworn recruits who also wear heavy armor but wield conjurer wands. I think. Been a long while.
likely the MSQ one I am thinking of when you are killing the people who aquire the Traders Spurn around level 15.

(03-31-2015, 07:52 AM)Kellach Woods Wrote:
(03-31-2015, 07:30 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: My pet theory, which I've discussed before with several of the same people whining in this thread, is that the glamour check is limited to equipment you can actually wear and not just a reskin option. If you take multiple-job equipment and glamour AF onto it, then change jobs, the glamour "falls off" for the incorrect job. I think it's just a Can Equip: Y/N flag that gets tripped to disable it.

Yep and it wouldn't be the first time NPCs are allowed to do things players can't (or that NPCs are repackaged from a version of the game where this was possible.)
however, it discredits the reason of 'metal armour inhibits the wielders ability to manipulate aether'

RE: Rant: Mages, Cuirass, and Trends - Aduu Avagnar - 03-31-2015

please delete

RE: Rant: Mages, Cuirass, and Trends - Warren Castille - 03-31-2015

(03-31-2015, 07:52 AM)Kellach Woods Wrote:
(03-31-2015, 07:30 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: My pet theory, which I've discussed before with several of the same people whining in this thread, is that the glamour check is limited to equipment you can actually wear and not just a reskin option. If you take multiple-job equipment and glamour AF onto it, then change jobs, the glamour "falls off" for the incorrect job. I think it's just a Can Equip: Y/N flag that gets tripped to disable it.

Yep and it wouldn't be the first time NPCs are allowed to do things players can't (or that NPCs are repackaged from a version of the game where this was possible.)

It's worth nothing that Lou and Papalymo are both designed from 1.0 when these things were possible. Since then an entirely different design team has taken over. Hell, wasn't it 1.18 or 1.23 that initially introduced actually-class-restricted equipment? Yoshi's design has made it pretty clear where they fall in line regarding what players are allowed to wear.

(03-31-2015, 07:53 AM)Nakoli Chalahko Wrote:
(03-31-2015, 07:30 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: I forget which quests, but there are Sultansworn recruits who also wear heavy armor but wield conjurer wands. I think. Been a long while.
likely the MSQ one I am thinking of when you are killing the people who aquire the Traders Spurn around level 15.

Sounds right to me.

RE: Rant: Mages, Cuirass, and Trends - Aduu Avagnar - 03-31-2015

I guess ultimately I view it as a matter of 'I choose not to' over 'I Cannot'

We have evidence in game of casters wearing at least Maille armour. Which leads to the conclusion that yes, it is possible to do so.

However it likely comes down to the manner of construction. Now, this is merely headcannon, but it makes sense to me.

The creation of an item is the moulding of the properties of the base material. Metals such as Iron, Cobalt and Mythril are dense, hard, unmoving. Whereas Gold, Silver, Copper, Cloth and the like are malleable, easily changed etc.

What if the creation of these objects through synthesis, and the properties they have, is simply an extension of these intrinsic properties? (Aether being malleable etc, therefore an item with that property is better suited to being crafted into garments for that use.)

So while a mage /could/ wear the heavier armour, their abilities would suffer for it.

RE: Rant: Mages, Cuirass, and Trends - Warren Castille - 03-31-2015

There is also the possibility that, in the case of that fellow in the screenshot, he is absolutely awful at his job. Try main-healing a dungeon past level 30 as a paladin.

RE: Rant: Mages, Cuirass, and Trends - Sounsyy - 03-31-2015

(03-31-2015, 08:41 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: There is also the possibility that, in the case of that fellow in the screenshot, he is absolutely awful at his job. Try main-healing a dungeon past level 30 as a paladin.

In 1.0 it was possible!
/notbitter.

...gods I miss succor.

RE: Rant: Mages, Cuirass, and Trends - Warren Castille - 03-31-2015

(03-31-2015, 08:47 AM)Sounsyy Wrote:
(03-31-2015, 08:41 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: There is also the possibility that, in the case of that fellow in the screenshot, he is absolutely awful at his job. Try main-healing a dungeon past level 30 as a paladin.

In 1.0 it was possible!
/notbitter.

...gods I miss succor.

Holy Succor being gone is something I rail on from time to time. It was too beautiful for this horrid world.

RE: Rant: Mages, Cuirass, and Trends - Sounsyy - 03-31-2015

(03-31-2015, 08:49 AM)Warren Castille Wrote:
(03-31-2015, 08:47 AM)Sounsyy Wrote:
(03-31-2015, 08:41 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: There is also the possibility that, in the case of that fellow in the screenshot, he is absolutely awful at his job. Try main-healing a dungeon past level 30 as a paladin.

In 1.0 it was possible!
/notbitter.

...gods I miss succor.

Holy Succor being gone is something I rail on from time to time. It was too beautiful for this horrid world.

For those who missed out on the glory that was PLD pre-2.0: (seriously I love what the battle team did to for the other classes but PLD was such a huge step backwards)
Holy Succor - Was a self cure about 1.5x the potency of a WHM's Cure I, but it gave you a buff that if any healer cured you while that buff was up, you + any party member in AoE range would get a super potent regen for like 10s. AND, the PLD gained enmity off of that cure+regen effect.

Oh then there was Aegis Boon!
Aegis Boon - Defensive buff which 100% guaranteed you'd block the next attack, nullifying the damage completely and actually restoring HP in proportion to the damage that would've been dealt to you. So back when Coincounter used to be really hard, a PLD could eat a 1000 Tonze Swing with Aegis Boon and instead of taking 4k damage (which back in the day was way more than most tanks WAR or PLD had) you'd gain like 900 HP back from it.

/sigh Them were the days...
/insert old man saying back in my day gif

RE: Rant: Mages, Cuirass, and Trends - Warren Castille - 03-31-2015

(03-31-2015, 09:05 AM)Sounsyy Wrote:
(03-31-2015, 08:49 AM)Warren Castille Wrote:
(03-31-2015, 08:47 AM)Sounsyy Wrote:
(03-31-2015, 08:41 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: There is also the possibility that, in the case of that fellow in the screenshot, he is absolutely awful at his job. Try main-healing a dungeon past level 30 as a paladin.

In 1.0 it was possible!
/notbitter.

...gods I miss succor.

Holy Succor being gone is something I rail on from time to time. It was too beautiful for this horrid world.

For those who missed out on the glory that was PLD pre-2.0: (seriously I love what the battle team did to for the other classes but PLD was such a huge step backwards)
Holy Succor - Was a self cure about 1.5x the potency of a WHM's Cure I, but it gave you a buff that if any healer cured you while that buff was up, you + any party member in AoE range would get a super potent regen for like 10s. AND, the PLD gained enmity off of that cure+regen effect.

Oh then there was Aegis Boon!
Aegis Boon - Defensive buff which 100% guaranteed you'd block the next attack, nullifying the damage completely and actually restoring HP in proportion to the damage that would've been dealt to you. So back when Coincounter used to be really hard, a PLD could eat a 1000 Tonze Swing with Aegis Boon and instead of taking 4k damage (which back in the day was way more than most tanks WAR or PLD had) you'd gain like 900 HP back from it.

/sigh Them were the days...
/insert old man saying back in my day gif

This was "balanced" by the fact that paladin AF was god-awful, mostly filled with MND+ and MP+ stats. Because you know, spellcasting.

Aegis Boon was a godsend, though. And Holy Succor... /wistful sight