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[split] Language Preference for Cutscenes - Zyrusticae - 03-30-2015
(03-30-2015, 05:00 PM)Flashhelix Wrote: I was fine w/ the ENG voices in most other FF games, then I played XIV and Kan-E-Senna's actress sound like she was trying to read lines off a sheet of paper immediately after getting a muay thai beatdown like ryan gosling in Only God Forgives, and Moenbryda's p. subpar too so I've stuck to JP voicesSee, I always felt like Kan-E-Senna was meant to sound very deliberate when she's speaking, particularly because she's trying to fake her physical age (remember, all Padjal are stuck in the early teens) so she has to try that much harder to be respected.
Interesting how different two people's interpretations can be when it comes to this sort of thing.
Mod Note - Edited and Merged back into thread.
RE: Language Preference for Cutscenes - Melkire - 03-30-2015
[Moderator Hardhat]
Let's behave. No personal attacks. Stay on topic.
Red_Leader.jpg goes here.
[/Moderator Hardhat]
RE: Language Preference for Cutscenes - SicketySix - 03-30-2015
I dont know what yall are talking about, but I watch my cutscenes in "freedom loving Murican" yehaww!
RE: Language Preference for Cutscenes - Caspar - 03-30-2015
(03-30-2015, 03:33 PM)allgivenover Wrote:I see what you're getting at, and indeed I think a lot of people prefer the sub for that reason. But in reality, doesn't what you say just supply a more convincing reason for them to pick the sub? If the acting is of deficient quality and unconvincing, it would be better to pick the audio track in which it is least obvious. So in actuality, picking the track you can't understand makes much more sense. At the very least, if the track is overacted, you won't know. I don't see anything innately wrong with that.(03-30-2015, 03:22 PM)Caspar Wrote: It seems to me most of the people who picked sub in this thread understand at least a little Japanese or are used to picking subs.
Knowing a smattering of nouns/verbs is not the same as being able to hear the difference between 帰る and 変ãˆã‚‹ or being able to tell if someone is over acting vs phoning the performance in.
Also context is pretty important. I guess it's cool you know some kanji, but you can probably distinguish between frog and return depending on the sentence it's used in in most situations. I'd like to give the viewer the benefit of the doubt and not assume they're an idiot. I think that in itself is the difference between our perspectives on this; you're assuming they don't know and I'm assuming they do, and in both cases it's probably inaccurate lol.
It's true that there are plenty of people who just hear noise when the JP dub is used, and are ignorant of who acts well and who lacks skill. Likewise I think there are a lot of people who can more or less tell when someone's being robotic or unconvincing regardless of language, because sometimes emotional inflection is universal. Sure, I don't expect the average viewer to be able to understand why someone like say, Omigawa Chiaki is generally laughed at when she tries to perform compared to the average VA, but I do assume that people can notice a difference in how voice direction is carried out. I think in either case assuming the worst of the listener, or assuming they have greater acumen than they really do, is probably flawed, but frankly, I'd rather do it my way.
Here's a great example of why the idea that voice direction is done like a shotgun and is no more micromanaged in the dub than in the sub is false: Yoshiyuki Tomino, when directing series, generally harassed and forced retakes on a lot of his VA to gain a more natural, "human" tone. But since he's rather unstable himself, many people feel the voice acting in Gundam series he directs is clipped and awkward. This might be only one case, but it is a great example of why the original voicework is intrinsically connected to the original intentions of the creator. A lot of viewers who aren't aware of this still can recognize the difference in "Tominospeak" when compared to more conventionally acted shows.
And again, like I mentioned in my last post, the standards differ based on region. I'd much rather have an overacted than underacted vocal track, though neither applies to the JP dub of FFXIV in my opinion. Sawashiro is pretty understated as usual as well as Ikeda. I mean, I did laugh a lot hearing Char as Lahabrea, but that's more due to my familiarity with his voice than anything else.
That brings up another point I hadn't considered earlier: Because voice acting is a heavily established industry in Japan, casting choice also plays upon typecasting and stereotypes that don't exist in our industry. Specific, familiar voices being used against type or according to type can really help enrich the experience. The same thing happens with Western live action work all the time. It's sort of like how when you see Wakamoto Norio in the credits list, it's likely he will be a villain. Plenty of series have derived some comedic value off the fact that viewers expect this.
RE: Language Preference for Cutscenes - Kaniko Niko - 03-31-2015
All this talk about the staff tailoring the voice actors to the very specific nuances of the characters...
And none notice Rie Tanaka. She's the Japanese version of Tara Strong. Or Atsuko Tanaka. Not to tread on any of their stellar abilities, but to assume someone like Rie Tanaka was chosen to voice someone with as many lines as Kan-E-Senna for anything but her star power is a little on the naive side.
As someone who has spent time in Japan, has friends move back and forth between there and being an extensive weeb anime connoisseur since the 1990s, I can tell you with full authority that literally everything that isn't farming in Japan is fanservice-related. (No. Not that kind of fanservice—but outright pandering to a base.) Most of these 'seiyuu' are really just pop idols, screen actors and the like—retired or not—doing filler work. It's not like they work for a voice studio.
I mean, by the numbers... The West has a much, much larger pool of voice talent to draw from than Japan and that, statistically, is going to bump up the number of voices that not all of you are going to agree with. Personally, I found most of the voices outside of Merlywb, Hydaelyn, Lahabrea, Gaius, Livia and Alphinaud to be very wooden and/or over-acted. Then again, Hydaelyn, Lahabrea, Gaius and Alphinaud are voiced by Mary Elizabeth McGlynn, Kyle Hebert, Richard Epcar and Sam Riegal, respectively. It honestly felt like some of the lesser-known voice talent tried to go with the obviously-acted, 'epic', 'anime-voice' angle.
RE: Language Preference for Cutscenes - Caspar - 03-31-2015
(03-31-2015, 02:49 AM)Datenshi Wrote: All this talk about the staff tailoring the voice actors to the very specific nuances of the characters...Oh yeah, totally. I've never been that huge of a fan of Tanaka, though she's good. I mean, she definitely fits the character, but there are a lot of other VA who could do Kan-E-Senna just as well. I think in terms of skill and role archetype she matches well, but I agree she was picked probably because she's famous lol.
And none notice Rie Tanaka. She's the Japanese version of Tara Strong. Or Atsuko Tanaka. Not to tread on any of their stellar abilities, but to assume someone like Rie Tanaka was chosen to voice someone with as many lines as Kan-E-Senna for anything but her star power is a little on the naive side.
As someone who has spent time in Japan, has friends move back and forth between there and being an extensive weeb anime connoisseur since the 1990s, I can tell you with full authority that literally everything that isn't farming in Japan is fanservice-related. (No. Not that kind of fanservice—but outright pandering to a base.) Most of these 'seiyuu' are really just pop idols, screen actors and the like—retired or not—doing filler work. It's not like they work for a voice studio.
I mean, by the numbers... The West has a much, much larger pool of voice talent to draw from than Japan and that, statistically, is going to bump up the number of voices that not all of you are going to agree with. Personally, I found most of the voices outside of Merlywb, Hydaelyn, Lahabrea, Gaius, Livia and Alphinaud to be very wooden and/or over-acted. Then again, Hydaelyn, Lahabrea, Gaius and Alphinaud are voiced by Mary Elizabeth McGlynn, Kyle Hebert, Richard Epcar and Sam Riegal, respectively. It honestly felt like some of the lesser-known voice talent tried to go with the obviously-acted, 'epic', 'anime-voice' angle.
Actually, now that I think about it, I forgot she was even in the game. Shows how much I care about the Adders.
RE: Language Preference for Cutscenes - K'nahli - 03-31-2015
(03-31-2015, 04:56 AM)Caspar Wrote:(03-31-2015, 02:49 AM)Datenshi Wrote: All this talk about the staff tailoring the voice actors to the very specific nuances of the characters...Oh yeah, totally. I've never been that huge of a fan of Tanaka, though she's good. I mean, she definitely fits the character, but there are a lot of other VA who could do Kan-E-Senna just as well. I think in terms of skill and role archetype she matches well, but I agree she was picked probably because she's famous lol.
And none notice Rie Tanaka. She's the Japanese version of Tara Strong. Or Atsuko Tanaka. Not to tread on any of their stellar abilities, but to assume someone like Rie Tanaka was chosen to voice someone with as many lines as Kan-E-Senna for anything but her star power is a little on the naive side.
As someone who has spent time in Japan, has friends move back and forth between there and being an extensive weeb anime connoisseur since the 1990s, I can tell you with full authority that literally everything that isn't farming in Japan is fanservice-related. (No. Not that kind of fanservice—but outright pandering to a base.) Most of these 'seiyuu' are really just pop idols, screen actors and the like—retired or not—doing filler work. It's not like they work for a voice studio.
I mean, by the numbers... The West has a much, much larger pool of voice talent to draw from than Japan and that, statistically, is going to bump up the number of voices that not all of you are going to agree with. Personally, I found most of the voices outside of Merlywb, Hydaelyn, Lahabrea, Gaius, Livia and Alphinaud to be very wooden and/or over-acted. Then again, Hydaelyn, Lahabrea, Gaius and Alphinaud are voiced by Mary Elizabeth McGlynn, Kyle Hebert, Richard Epcar and Sam Riegal, respectively. It honestly felt like some of the lesser-known voice talent tried to go with the obviously-acted, 'epic', 'anime-voice' angle.
Actually, now that I think about it, I forgot she was even in the game. Shows how much I care about the Adders.
I really admired your replies and ability to coherently convey many of my own personal impressions on the matter much better than I could have myself....
....but then I read this....
(03-31-2015, 04:56 AM)Caspar Wrote: Shows how much I care about the Adders.
Petitioning to have you removed from the forum outright and asap.
RE: Language Preference for Cutscenes - Zyrusticae - 03-31-2015
Part of the problem is that the acting cannot be divorced from the direction and instruction the actor receives. The two are intrinsically linked because, obviously, they have a HUGE impact on the final result (see Casper's remarks about "Tominospeak"). Some of why the generic 'I don't like the voice acting' complaints grate on me is specifically because they could just be complaining about the direction they went in rather than the actual acting. And of course, the casting itself is a whole 'nother ball of wax (though great actors can make any role work even when they're playing something completely against type).
And then there's the script itself. Trying to act "naturally" when you're using a dialect that's so alien from your own that it may as well be another language is not even remotely an easy task. You might not even have a conception for what a 'natural' sound for that particular character would be, because they don't exist and no living individual exists who speaks like that.
On the other hand, maybe I just have really low standards. Growing up, I listened to a lot of wooden acting and LOADS of kids who just... couldn't... read out loud worth a damn. Pausing every other word, over or underenunciating, not even being able to project even the slightest amount of emotion... it's pretty funny in retrospect how much better-read I was than pretty much everyone else. Funny... and pretty sad, for that matter. That experience colors my perceptions and I now consider pretty much anything that isn't blatantly over-acted or completely awful to be adequate, and anything that sounds even a little bit natural to be 'good'.
All that being said, great acting still definitely gets a rise out of me. But I don't expect it, and frankly, no one should, because it requires extraordinary circumstances with extraordinary people and an extraordinary story with an equally extraordinary script. Too many mitigating factors for that to happen more often than once in a blue moon. As long as things aren't grating or boring me to tears, I'm happy enough.
RE: Language Preference for Cutscenes - Berrod Armstrong - 03-31-2015
(03-29-2015, 07:23 PM)Val Wrote: I, uh.I DON'T EVEN KNOW YOU ANYMORE
I don't watch the cutscenes.
(03-29-2015, 11:34 AM)Seriphyn Wrote: Given that the actual dialogue is written out into British regionals according to the localization, using Japanese voiceovers would be erroneous, as I'm pretty sure they're not actually saying the displayed text in Japanese.Agreed, Aymeric shocked and delighted me, listening to him and Alphinaud speak was great.
Also with subsequent patches, I have felt that the English voice acting has improved considerably. Nanamo Ul Nanamo for example (she is terrible in 2.0, but 2.2 onwards is neat). New characters too, like Moenbryda and Aymeric, the latter especially being incredible.
RE: Language Preference for Cutscenes - Zyrusticae - 03-31-2015
Oh yeah, Aymeric makes me swoon. His voice is like liquid gold unto mine ears. I could listen to him speak about nothing all day long.
RE: Language Preference for Cutscenes - Melkire - 03-31-2015
Fourth'ing Aymeric's English VA as an unexpected and very appreciated gem.
RE: Language Preference for Cutscenes - Imo - 04-01-2015
You can switch language tracks? Brb, gotta rewatch some cutscenes in Japanese. Some of the characters have Japanese voice actors I really like - Minfilia is Miyuki Sawashiro and Pipin is Nobuyuki Hiyama, both of whom are freakin' amazing seiyuu.
And only recently I realized that Kan-E-Senna is Rie Tanaka. Lacus. I guess you could say she's a... SEED-seer.
RE: Language Preference for Cutscenes - Gabineaux - 04-01-2015
I really liked the German voices for the newest stuff. A+, everyone sounded great.
RE: Language Preference for Cutscenes - Kaniko Niko - 04-02-2015
Just recently I finished up the 2.0 Main Story Questline and have traversed about three quarters of the way through Into The Maelstrom.
By the grace of the gods has the voice acting been bumped up several notches.
Yugiri Mistwalker sounds like she's phoning it in, though. Raubahn is still charmingly Raubahn and Nanamo actually sounds quite wonderful. As far as Lalafell go, I don't believe I heard Papalymo yet, but he's got some serious ground to cover to catch up.
I'm actually rather much a fan of Alphinaud's voice. It was wooden at first, but by the time a certain event rolls around with a primal near the end of the 2.0 MSQ, I could say he was busting some serious chops. You could practically hear him trying not to vomit from the fundamental wrongness of how things turned out.
RE: Language Preference for Cutscenes - Clover - 04-02-2015
Japanese voices, hands down. Several reasons:
1- Most importantly, it's the original (and therefore, the real) version. The creators wanted the characters to be and sound that way, and nothing really beats the original version of anything. I don't watch Game of Thrones in Spanish, just like I wouldn't play a Japanese game in any other language that's not Japanese. Original voices are sacred to me.
2- It's not just that the original version of anything is better and true to the creators' vision, but also that dubs tend to sound plain bad to me. Many characters just don't translate well in different cultures.
3- Japanese must be the only language that sounds good to my ears *laughs*.