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+--- Thread: Roleplaying in Public, but not..in public? (/showthread.php?tid=20160)
RE: Roleplaying in Public, but not..in public? - QalliFlower - 07-21-2017
I mean, the main reason I ever ask someone to join is because I'm lazy, and if they're going to be prickly or ignore me that's a quicker way to find out.
I'm generally polite to other players because I'm a selfish creature and know they'll be more amenable to my funmaking if they aren't put off.
YMMV.
RE: Roleplaying in Public, but not..in public? - Leggerless - 07-21-2017
I mean. I wouldn't necessarily assign the problems to just Americans about magically knowing whether or not it's ok to RP with someone and calling them afraid just because they won't walk up to someone.
Even in Germany (EU), at a cafe setting (for an example), you use a phrase like "Ist hier noch frei" (Is here free?) to a group of people sitting down at a table already with what appears to be open seats. If they say "Ja" (Yes) or "Ja, hier ist frei" (Yea, here is free), then you're free to take the other spots at the table. If not, then you politely nod, move on, and see about acquiring another table or continue standing around. If they spout some mean nonsense towards you... then politely nod, move on, and see about acquiring another table.
It's not just one culture or group of people that may be scared to do this. It's many people. And it's certainly not just one region. It's everywhere, in some form or fashion of a particular magnitude. That's what I think.
It's almost what you should expect from a RP community of people who hail from a countless number of backgrounds.
RE: Roleplaying in Public, but not..in public? - zaviire - 07-21-2017
While I agree that it's a kind of silly attitude to have that "omg if I wanna walk-up to anyone ever for the arr peez then I have to ask permission first or they'll be mad at me," I don't think it really has anything to do with American "PC Culture." Nor do I think that there's anything really wrong with "PC Culture," because I think it's a pretty good deal that people try to be inclusive and respectful of one another.
Being afraid to offend people is kind of its own separate issue that is more likely to stem from other things that are more likely to be on a personal level. For example, Balmung has quite a few people who can and will ostracize or even harass you if you don't march in lock-step with them and their opinions, whether they pertain to RP or not.
At that point, I think that the fear is... Kind of natural? RP is a social hobby and MMOs are social games, and no one wants to be bullied. This is to say nothing of cases where people actually do bleed IC into OOC which has ended ugly, or vice-versa.
Anyway, I don't think that there's anything I could say on the matter that Gegenji hasn't already.
A semi-related note, though, is that I don't feel like it's a particularly heinous crime to let someone know, OOC in /tells, that either the scene is closed or I have no interest in RPing with them. Mostly because in crowded places, I find chat scroll to be a bit brain-bendy and I can barely keep up when I'm just RPing with one other person. If a scene is closed, I'll usually take it to /p because I just treat /p like I do /em, regardless of the nametag attached to names. But anything I do in /s is usually fair game even if I'll probably be surprised if anyone actually picks up on my character to interact in the first place.
But if it's just my character being an irritable arse, then the telling-to-buzz-off will probably just be IC. And it'll just be because he's an irritable arse, not because I, OOC, want the scene to be closed. If my character tells someone to buzz off, then they're absolutely free to not buzz off. The results might just be a little interesting depending on how Leon is feeling that day.
RE: Roleplaying in Public, but not..in public? - Caspar - 07-21-2017
It's how I was raised. I use both /tell and walkup, but I try to read the mood and tailor my approach to what I feel is most appropriate. It has very little to do with being sensitive towards offending someone and more about pragmatic politeness. I can understand the desire to be IC at all times, but I think gaining important context, especially if the RP is not in the in game locale or a huge visible event is happening ICly, is worth breaking character if only for a moment. Say there is a huge riot and the emotes are responses to GM posts in /p. Your character ought to be able to see the riot; walking up with no context just makes them appear blind or deaf. That is unless your character is one of those things...
RE: Roleplaying in Public, but not..in public? - Silmanos - 07-21-2017
Honestly 90% of the time I don't actually think people have an issue with walk ups as being shown here. I've found if it is in say or emote then it normally is fair game. Yet like everything in life the rule of thumb is not always the case. Closed FC events are actually a perfect example of this. You can only utilize so many channels for these things and depending on your fc size party chat is not one of them. Thus many default to using say/emote for most of it while dms use other channels for scene setting and ooc dm things. This of course leads to someone seeing people rping but it is a closed scene. And honestly anyone who says their fc doesn't make these closed.... well I feel sorry for your dms having to constantly deal with the added stress of including randoms. These being closed are also often coupled with the fact that we at times do have to use a spot in the game world to represent something else, for all that we have we don't exactly have everything that might potentialy be rp'd.Â
So yes saying use party chat for private scenes or when you don't want to have interruptions is nice and all, it just isn't feasible unless its with a small group. Now of course this doesn't give anyone the license to be rude if someone mistakes it as open. As a dm I've always just sent a polite ooc tell to the person letting them know it is a closed fc event and they have always been polite about accepting that. Hells more often than not they stick around to watch. Outside of instances like this you should be fine to walk up to your heart's content if they are in public channels with their tag on. If they become rude over it... well do you really want to rp with peoplenlike that? The only time I'd really say for sure you need to send a tell oocly is if your character is walking up with the intention to detain or arrest them. Let's just be honest here, no one is really going to be okay with a complete stranger walking up and trying to rp lock your character by arresting them unless it's worked out so it can be resolved within a reasonable time.
RE: Roleplaying in Public, but not..in public? - Mana Lily - 07-21-2017
I find the majority of conflict that occurs from these situations comes from a lack of communication. Heck, you could argue that a ton of conflicts that occur in general in OOC RP land comes from a lack of it.
If you can read a situation and believe strolling on up is fine, then go for it with the understanding that your attempt might be hit or miss- as would be any interaction in the real world (although of course, you cannot be ignored there... well, you -could- but that's a tangent I won't go down! XD) I often will just stroll up to people, but if I'm a little intimidated or unsure, then I simply send a tell. Likewise, I never get upset at someone -else- sending me a tell asking for permission. That's ridiculous to be upset over. "They are breaking my immersion by OOCly asking me if it is okay to join." You are in a make believe pixel game where OOC people can run around naked and ride around on herds of magical ponies at any time. If a single tell takes you out of your immersion, then perhaps you should be in a less public place for your scene.
Anywho! I just find being polite and understanding about -either- side of the coin is immensely helpful. Not only will it help your sanity, but generally interactions will go better from an OOC stand point. (Not talking about IC characters, of course!) If you're salty and jump to conclusions if someone does not want to partake in public RP with you, etc... you'll just have a bad time in general.
Anyway, public RP in an MMO is a bit of a circus at times. You just have to be patient and acknowledge that everyone comes from different walks of life and varying experiences in RP. The person who RPs they have a gameboy (as I saw mentioned haha) will probably not mesh well with the person who RPs a lack of technology existing. Just an example of course, as this MMO obviously has degrees of technology. : )
-flees back into the cardboard box-
RE: Roleplaying in Public, but not..in public? - Nero - 07-21-2017
As far my own roleplay is concerned, if I'm roleplaying in /say then I'm inviting random people to join or at least attempt to join unannounced. There's really no point in roleplaying openly if you're not willing to at least entertain the thought of people from the world joining in.
If I don't want people to join, then I just go to party chat where I type in my usual third-person style.
RE: Roleplaying in Public, but not..in public? - Gegenji - 07-21-2017
An interesting question got brought up by Zhavi in the chat that kind of fits the theme of this discussion. My apologizes if I butchered the framing of it. Anyway, the basic idea of the question was this:
Would you rather:
a.) See all open world RP (minus ERP, of course), but with the understanding that you may be unable to interact some of it (so sort of how things are currently), or
b.) Have all the "not really" public RP confined to party chat and whispers, and ONLY see the few public RPs that you could immediately interact with without having to ask first?
Something like that. I'm sure Zhavi could come in and slap me upside the head if my phrasing is too far off from the idea.
Anyway, I was of the mindset that... even if you can't actively engage and interact with some people's open-world RP, it's still a nice thing to have. It adds substance and life to the world, makes it seem more alive regardless of how interactive it may be. It's still set dressing, background noise, and I feel it heavily helps in that desired feeling of immersion with the world itself.
Situation B just seems like you'd have all the people still standing around... but with nothing (seemingly) happening. All in a dead silence, which just seems more creepy and potentially upsetting to me than anything else. I'd rather the "fake" bustle that I can't actually jump in on to what would - to me - seem like little more than a wax museum.
RE: Roleplaying in Public, but not..in public? - Kilieit - 07-21-2017
(07-21-2017, 02:21 PM)Gegenji Wrote: Anyway, I was of the mindset that... even if you can't actively engage and interact with some people's open-world RP, it's still a nice thing to have. It adds substance and life to the world, makes it seem more alive regardless of how interactive it may be. It's still set dressing, background noise, and I feel it heavily helps in that desired feeling of immersion with the world itself.
Situation B just seems like you'd have all the people still standing around... but with nothing (seemingly) happening. All in a dead silence, which just seems more creepy and potentially upsetting to me than anything else. I'd rather the "fake" bustle that I can't actually jump in on to what would - to me - seem like little more than a wax museum.
I think I agree here - & honestly it doesn't seem that far off from RL, where I can sit in a café for 30 minutes and hear 30 different conversations going on and be welcome to join in exactly zero of them. People-watching is its own fun.
Furthermore - at risk of making this so-far mild post somewhat otherwise - it's important to cultivate the skill of being able to enjoy other people's creativity without immediately feeling the need/obligation to throw yours in the mix as well, and without feeling bitter if your contribution isn't welcome or invited. Even when your presence is anticipated and/or invited, it can be important to be able to recognise - without any rancor - when it's time for you and/or your character to take a step back and let someone else do their thing for a little bit... and then do that.
Honestly, that's something I struggle with, but it's something I know I struggle with. If anything, eavesdropping on others' RP without being welcome to join it is an opportunity for me to exercise my abilities to understand that just because right now my character isn't at the forefront of everything doesn't mean that I'm being ignored, or that I've done something wrong, or that it's always going to be like this. It just means that's how things are right now.
RE: Roleplaying in Public, but not..in public? - ExAtomos - 07-21-2017
Butting in when you have nothing to contribute? Sure, rude in game and out. But let's go with you, a cabinetmaker, overhearing a couple talking about how they wish they could find someone to help them make the cabinets of their dreams. Or even closer to possible... you sitting at a fast food joint and overhearing someone from the next table over saying they want to play ffxiv but don't know anyone in game. Unless you have severe social anxiety, would you really not lean over with an "Excuse me, did you say ffxiv?" (If the person says 'fuck off', then you know why they don't have anyone to play with and you move on.)
It makes no sense for me to butt into someone's RP if it's not relevant to my interests, but if it IS and they are using public chat, you bet your ass I'm gonna infiltrate the convo.
I mean... maybe I'm Southern? but this whole "everyone can RP out loud and none of us will dare actually interact with each other" makes zero sense to me.
RE: Roleplaying in Public, but not..in public? - Roen - 07-21-2017
(07-21-2017, 02:21 PM)Gegenji Wrote: Would you rather:
a.) See all open world RP (minus ERP, of course), but with the understanding that you may be unable to interact some of it (so sort of how things are currently), or
b.) Have all the "not really" public RP confined to party chat and whispers, and ONLY see the few public RPs that you could immediately interact with without having to ask first?
I too like people watching. I enjoy watching scenes unfold even if I have nothing to do with it. So definitely I would prefer option A.
I think I am half half on when I RP in party and when I RP in public. It really depends on the preferences of those I am RPing with and the nature of the RP itself. But if I am RPing in /s and /em, I don't mind other RPers overhearing it or even reacting to it. If they approach, our interaction will depend on the context. If it is a private conversation, then my character will say so.
I also agree with the idea that just because someone is RPing in public, it may not an automatic invitation for everyone to jump in right then and there but can serve as an advertisement that might interest others to RP with them later down the line.
I think there has been a lot of differing opinions here, and I don't think any one of them are absolutely wrong. I just think they are just different preferences and it's always best to acknowledge that try to go with the flow.
RE: Roleplaying in Public, but not..in public? - Meena - 07-21-2017
I just find it odd that i is a requirement for most people to ask them first to approach despite them already role playing in public. if my character is there, why are they invisible to someone until I ask permission?
And Im sorry if this next comment sounds offensive, in regards to PC culture.
In the Larp community in New Zealand we have had a very sudden and rapid growth in the community due to a big boon in members joining, all being Transgender or in the LGQT spectrum. While we've had 'Queer' (I have no idea if this word is offensive, im sorry) We had never had to deal with the community changes and thus, things in general became more PC to accommodate these people and their triggers. Especially in dark roleplay themes, things got very limited to the point of non-existence.
I've noticed something similar (but not exactly the same) happening on Balmung especially. many people have told me tha Balmung is the 'Safe Gay/Lesbian/Quuer/LGBTQA' haven of Roleplay for these groups. And usually in cases i've personally witnessed, these people have been through a lot which could lead to some of the PC issue we have today.
I could just be making mountains out of molehills, or completely underestimate the situation, but yeh. What i've wittnessed.
(Also, I have nothing against these people! :3 they're all good by me. Just an observation comparing one fiction avenue to another)
RE: Roleplaying in Public, but not..in public? - Nako Vesh - 07-21-2017
(07-21-2017, 06:06 PM)Meena Wrote: While we've had 'Queer' (I have no idea if this word is offensive, im sorry) We had never had to deal with the community changes and thus, things in general became more PC to accommodate these people and their triggers. Especially in dark roleplay themes, things got very limited to the point of non-existence.
I'm sorry, what? Were you guys LARPing being abusive to trans characters or something and then had to change when trans people made themselves known in your circle? I really have to wonder what this "dark" RP is. Also, protip: These folks have always been in your gaming groups, but the fact that they haven't revealed themselves to you should make you think.
This "PC CULTURE IS RUINING EVERYTHING!!!111" garbage is tired and makes my eyes roll into orbit. It's not the reason for people being hesitant about public RP, for god's sake. I have to go with Gegenji's theory of nerds gonna be nerds. Seriously, we should make a poll. How many of us have social hangups or anxieties over initiating or joining RP? I bet the number would be high. And is sending a quick whisper really so massively catastrophic to your RP? Molehills.
Â
Also, using queer is fine, considering there are queer studies at universities.
RE: Roleplaying in Public, but not..in public? - Kilieit - 07-21-2017
(07-21-2017, 06:06 PM)Meena Wrote: I just find it odd that i is a requirement for most people to ask them first to approach despite them already role playing in public. if my character is there, why are they invisible to someone until I ask permission?
Like - "is my character invisible until I signify I want to join in" - kinda yeah? I don't think it's that uncommon to have to mentally assume someone's toon is not there until they've done something to specify otherwise, and whether that "something" is dropping an IC emote or sending an OOC tell is largely inconsequential in terms of the ignoring and the fact it only ends on cue.
Because... until you're doing something specific to signify that you're there IC, there's always the chance that you're just flitting about OOCly doing quests or something? Even with the RP tag, some people use it to signify that they're an RPer in general and not that they are currently RPing, so it's not exactly a guarantee. And IMO, it's more damaging to the flow of RP to acknowledge someone IC and then have them immediately teleport away, than it is to just ignore them until they do something to make it clear they're interested.
On to simply dropping an emote versus sending a tell - aside from the other advantage I mentioned earlier (getting a better litmus on whether these are actually people you want to interact with or not), sending a tell gives an avenue for the players to fill you in on missing context. Like, depending on how long you've been there for, you might or might not have caught context emotes that would still be immediately obvious to your character, such as:
- Person A is holding an oversized sword that does not look like it belongs to them.
- Person B smells really, really bad. Rotting morbol bad.
- Person C's hand is not a hand at all and is actually an unadorned metal hook.
- Person D and E are whispering to each other in the background.
- Person F is eating an absurdly bright plate of food. Like, it looks like it might not actually be edible. But they're eating it.
- Person G is singing loudly and off-key to themself.
And so on and so on. An OOC tell allows the person an opportunity to fill you in on stuff like this, give a quick "last time on This Roleplay Scene", before you dive in - at least, when I get whispered like that, that's what I use it as a chance to do.
It just provides a better avenue for... well, communication. Of all kinds, I think. We don't have physreps in this medium, so we have to rely on text-based communications instead for the same information. And emoting it out creatively again and again and again gets tiresome for me to write and for the people I was already RPing with to read, trust me (as someone who plays a character who diverges from his in-game model).
RE: Roleplaying in Public, but not..in public? - Meena - 07-21-2017
(07-21-2017, 07:06 PM)Nako Vesh Wrote:(07-21-2017, 06:06 PM)Meena Wrote: snip
I'm sorry, what? Were you guys LARPing being abusive to trans characters or something and then had to change when trans people made themselves known in your circle? I really have to wonder what this "dark" RP is. Also, protip: These folks have always been in your gaming groups, but the fact that they haven't revealed themselves to you should make you think.
snip
Nono, I'm saying it was never a prevalent thing in the LARP community and we had to adjust to accommodate new groups of people we hadn't ever experienced being included in that community.
:3 Just like anything, it was new. But a lot of the new members had triggers against Larps with things like gender inequality, abuse, torture etc.
So in NZL we've pretty much just stopped writing dark fantasy games because there are so few topics which can be covered.