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+--- Thread: Does anyone else get kind of annoyed at how Miqo'te are represented in the world? (/showthread.php?tid=4467)
RE: Does anyone else get kind of annoyed at how Miqo'te are represented in the world? - Lament - 09-11-2013
It's much the same with the way Miqo'te are portrayed in some areas, though - the game isn't skirting around mature themes just because they may be uncomfortable.
Miqo'te seem to be the typically fetishized race, so it's not too unusual that some of them would resort to things like exotic dancing or prostitution. It's a way for them to make a living when there are no other options, and being part of a fetishized group means you get more work, so to speak. It doesn't actually imply promiscuity, like it doesn't for those women in Sastasha - hell, I doubt most real life prostitutes do it out of personal enjoyment. You gotta do what you gotta do to get by. So don't let it bother you too much.
And for the few who do it out of personal enjoyment, good for them - might as well make money doing what you like. If a male Seeker's primary duty can be breeding, I don't see why a female's primary hobby couldn't be. ;)
RE: Does anyone else get kind of annoyed at how Miqo'te are represented in the world? - Rhylund - 09-11-2013
I've already seen more than a handful of "willing slave" ladycats ICly and you can't throw a stone in any direction without hitting several "Nuhns" (usually 'perched' upon a railing/fence/bannister/etc.)Â
I understand why it might annoy you, but they're the "fetish" race and the game doesn't seem to mind poking fun at that fact.
RE: Does anyone else get kind of annoyed at how Miqo'te are represented in the world? - Sigyn Shieldbreaker - 09-11-2013
I will say that I saw somewhere in a break down of Miqo'tes (I think either on this thread or a quote from somewhere else) that male Seekers -actually- don't get much in the way of a choice. Yes, they can choose to fight a Nunh to take over his tribe or start a tribe themselves (which is far more difficult) but ultimately, it comes down to the choice of the women. They are more LIKELY to take a male if he replaces a Nunh because he's shown that he's stronger and strength is what they care about. But males don't lay claim to women.
It sounds like the females choose to join a male's tribe, either because he is strong and of good stock or because the females of the tribe have influenced her decision in some way. The women still take care of the children almost exclusively, probably because the child's father can be replaced at any time.
Though it's not a matriarchy like with Keepers with the woman's name is passed down, I don't think male Seekers actually get a lot of respect outside the fact that they are the dominant male of their group, much like lion prides. Males aren't the primary hunters, females don't actually have real emotional connection to them, and their main job is to try and keep their position because that's how they survive and assure they will have offspring. While male lions are capable of hunting down their prey it's most often if not almost exclusively the females that provide. Without that steady income of food, they're left to prowl for an open territory where they can survive without being killed by another male.
So in essence, male Seekers probably -need- women and -want- to maintain their positions of exclusive-access lest they be cast out to wander and not have the chance to have more offspring. I don't think females are subservient or that the term 'harem' is used to denote that. It's likely not exactly like human harems as we know them where a man -buys- or is gifted women in order to appease him and/or to provide children to carry on his line. Women probably still make all the major decisions and leave the males to worry about whether or not they'll have a meal and a warm bed by the next sun.
There are a number of different ways to look at this scenario with Seekers. I don't think you have to say that everyone views Seekers as being flimsy bimbos who'll either do anything for money or have sexual relations with anyone without care. As it's been pointed out, it likely varies from person to person depending on where they're from.
A merchant from Ul'dah might speak down to a female Miqo in Limsa Lominsa and get much more than he bargained for. They did say in my story quest when I got my pass that many people in any of the city-states (specifically Ul'dah in this case) had never gotten a chance to go to Gridania or Limsa Lominsa. This sort of situation likely arises.
I personally don't care much for the stance of -people- who look down on other people based on the choices they make. Yes, Siobhain abhors robbers and bandits and thieves who prey on the weak, but she doesn't go around picking on them for no reason nor does she assume she understands why they're doing what they do. People choose to make their characters, more often than not, as close-minded on certain things as they are despite any reason in the lore that they might have to think otherwise or consider things as normal instead of being rubbed the wrong way by it.
I've made close minded characters on purpose, but it's usually that they're closed about what they'll do with themselves. Of course, I don't typically roll characters who have the freedom to be snooty because I don't have many who are rich to begin with. It's easy to hate something ICly that you don't really mind OOCly, it's harder to like something ICly that you hate OOCly.Â
If you claim you hate or despise or plain don't like something OOCly, especially in regards to the way 'most people play' or 'most people see things' and you decide to take that dislike and find a way to use it in character, that's just one more great thing about freedom of opinion. It just worries me that we all, as experienced roleplayers, can have a negative impact on the thoughts and views of others. Whole communities of roleplayers, excluding none because we -are- a community, have caused people to be afraid they might not be as skilled as others, be afraid to ask questions for fear of negative (angry) responses, be afraid of being creative and unique, and to quit playing the game because of those fears. Worse, we pass on our opinions, no matter how often we -say- they're just our opinions and whomever can do whatever they like, to new people who misinterpret what we say and take the majority's opinion as law to use as their reasoning to avoid other new people or tell them that what they're doing is wrong.
It's all that I'm worried about and it's why I waste soooo much time trying to make points more open. Yeah, maybe it'd be great if the community unanimously decided that SE has it wrong and we'll furthermore ignore all the 'stupid' or 'annoying' things they do with Miqo'tes to sexualize them, but it's not really fair for everyone.
But I won't agree that 'lol, fetishes' is good enough for serious Seeker RPers. I understand you want to love your race and have them be serious. That's why many of us are trying to give serious, potential explanations for it rather than reinforcing any fears or feelings that all these situations are just a big, offensive joke.
RE: Does anyone else get kind of annoyed at how Miqo'te are represented in the world? - K'nahli - 09-11-2013
(09-11-2013, 10:11 PM)Hyunseo Wrote: Her badassery felt reduced to cartoonish half-assery than what I expected her to be like. I mean, I didn't expect her to be a Big Bad, but I did kind of expect her to be a lot more serious??? Or maybe a force to be taken more seriously??
But her sort of unphased attitude is born from her arrogance and feeling of being untouchable, isn't it? The elzen on the other hand who bantered back and forth with her made it a little comical by humouring her attitude due to their past run-ins. He is also cocky, he even insisted on going alone. I don't think he was worried about failing either. He just saw her as a rival and a past mistake that he needed to redeem himself for. I think both him and her had no intentions or worries about losing to one another because they were confident in their own abilities. The mqio'te and your character on the other hand treated it more seriously.
I dunno, maybe its just me but I thought it was a good scene ^^"
Edit:
I think some of that was aimed at me, Siobhain, so I'll just add that I have zero qualms with RPers playing as miqo'te courtesans or anything! I have no problem with that idea at all. Was just a little sad that it seems to be becoming a stereotype or general depiction of the race as a whole ^^
RE: Does anyone else get kind of annoyed at how Miqo'te are represented in the world? - Lost River - 09-11-2013
With all of that, I think all those Miqo'te make it big in Ul'dah or at least try. And pssh, maybe Lost River should try her best as a courtesan. But, more of an Asian flair to it, yeah! Giant lady in a kimono.
RE: Does anyone else get kind of annoyed at how Miqo'te are represented in the world? - Lament - 09-11-2013
A bit off topic, but Siobhain, I'd love to know where that knowledge of Miqo'te lore comes from - what I've seen on the wiki and in the naming conventions page is vague, and while the comparison to lions seems valid, the naming conventions do seem to imply that for Seekers, the male is the root of the family. The naming conventions also specifically state that Nunh status does not equate to leadership and that very few Nunh ever become leaders, so it seems like while being a Nunh seems to be a desirable element for breeding, it doesn't actually have any impact on your power within the tribe's hierarchy (though I'd wager it would make you important, as a source of new offspring). I haven't gotten far enough into the game to see if there's any further exposition there and I am really curious if there are other sources of lore I haven't found yet!
I also remember reading somewhere that one Nunh per 10-50 females is average, which seems to imply there can be more than one Nunh per tribe, but for the life of me I can't remember where it was I read that.
Herp durp I have a high quality memory. It's in the naming conventions topic:
Quote:Depending on its size, a tribe may have multiple nunh (a ratio of one nunh per ten to fifty females is average).
RE: Does anyone else get kind of annoyed at how Miqo'te are represented in the world? - Momoji Momochi - 09-11-2013
I remember reading in the lore that they were supposed to have a proud tradition of hunting, with powerful legs built specifically for that purpose. Then I go ingame and they're hunting alright, but it isn't for ... uh... yeah...
How they're presented in game is sort of a bad joke actually.
RE: Does anyone else get kind of annoyed at how Miqo'te are represented in the world? - Hyunseo - 09-11-2013
(09-11-2013, 10:30 PM)Knahli Wrote:(09-11-2013, 10:11 PM)Hyunseo Wrote: Her badassery felt reduced to cartoonish half-assery than what I expected her to be like. I mean, I didn't expect her to be a Big Bad, but I did kind of expect her to be a lot more serious??? Or maybe a force to be taken more seriously??
But her sort of unphased attitude is born from her arrogance and feeling of being untouchable, isn't it? The elzen on the other hand who bantered back and forth with her made it a little comical by humouring her attitude due to their past run-ins. He is also cocky, he even insisted on going alone. I don't think he was worried about failing either. He just saw her as a rival and a past mistake that he needed to redeem himself for. I think both him and her had no intentions or worries about losing to one another because they were confident in their own abilities. The mqio'te and your character on the other hand treated it more seriously.
I dunno, maybe its just me but I thought it was a good scene ^^"
I thought it was a good seen with her and the elezen, but even Miss Aliapoh, the other Miqo'te woman who was struggling with fitting in, seemed to be written off without much care.
I suppose everything might have been condensed since it was supposed to be a short story. Perhaps I'm trying to look too much into it when it's supposed to be simple. I was just expecting more, I suppose, for all the characters involved, though I feel like the male elezen was the most well-written compared to the women.
—that's how I can put it. I felt like the main female characters were treated moreso as plot devices rather than developed characters.
EDIT: Don't get me wrong, this is just how I feel. I might just be just wanting more from a little subplot.
I also feel like Keepers aren't getting enough love, because they are a matriarch, and yet I've seen none of that, yet.
RE: Does anyone else get kind of annoyed at how Miqo'te are represented in the world? - DAISHI - 09-11-2013
It's a fetish race. It's always been a fetish race. Since FFXI it's been an overchosen hypersexualised Rule 34 fetish race. There were far more Manqote then Miqote.
RE: Does anyone else get kind of annoyed at how Miqo'te are represented in the world? - Verranicus - 09-11-2013
(09-11-2013, 10:40 PM)Momoji Momochi Wrote: I remember reading in the lore that they were supposed to have a proud tradition of hunting, with powerful legs built specifically for that purpose. Then I go ingame and they're hunting alright, but it isn't for ... uh... yeah...
How they're presented in game is sort of a bad joke actually.
If when you look at them all you see are the negative sides, that they're hookers and loose and fanservice only, chances are you had some of those ideas in your mind before you even signed in.
RE: Does anyone else get kind of annoyed at how Miqo'te are represented in the world? - Sigyn Shieldbreaker - 09-11-2013
(09-11-2013, 10:40 PM)Lament Wrote: A bit off topic, but Siobhain, I'd love to know where that knowledge of Miqo'te lore comes from - what I've seen on the wiki and in the naming conventions page is vague, and while the comparison to lions seems valid, the naming conventions do seem to imply that for Seekers, the male is the root of the family. The naming conventions also specifically state that Nunh status does not equate to leadership and that very few Nunh ever become leaders, so it seems like while being a Nunh seems to be a desirable element for breeding, it doesn't actually have any impact on your power within the tribe's hierarchy (though I'd wager it would make you important, as a source of new offspring). I haven't gotten far enough into the game to see if there's any further exposition there and I am really curious if there are other sources of lore I haven't found yet!
I also remember reading somewhere that one Nunh per 10-50 females is average, which seems to imply there can be more than one Nunh per tribe, but for the life of me I can't remember where it was I read that.
Herp durp I have a high quality memory. It's in the naming conventions topic:
Quote:Depending on its size, a tribe may have multiple nunh (a ratio of one nunh per ten to fifty females is average).
 Yep, I found that too. Actually, what I misread was another forum topic that brought up that they -could- be patriarchal or they -could- not be patriarchal and probably both forms of society exist given the number of different tribes. I also think I took the part about Nunhs not always becoming leaders and the part where, even though they are the root of a new clan (when they establish one) they are also replaceable and my brain equated a fact out of that that doesn't actually exist.
 Sorry 'bout dat.
RE: Does anyone else get kind of annoyed at how Miqo'te are represented in the world? - K'nahli - 09-11-2013
Perhaps since my archer is a miqo'te I didn't dwell to much on the other miqo's inferiority(?) By that I mean I didn't take her race into consideration. I'm not too sure what you mean since my brain isn't working at this hour but perhaps because of the way the Elzen condemns all races but his own?
RE: Does anyone else get kind of annoyed at how Miqo'te are represented in the world? - Noble_Einherjar - 09-11-2013
It does bother me sometimes. But what actually bothers me is the overt nature of it all. Like the Hyur Highlander captain who is obviously banging twin Miqo'te women in Highbridge. Isabela from Dragon Age 2 sometimes had more subtle innuendo than that.
I like that XIV has a mature vibe to it. Like how pirates in Limsa Lominsa aren't romanticized to be anything more than ale-drinking, foul-mouthed cutthroats, and don't sugarcoat what they do to their captive women. But it seems that a lot of the dialogue and events surrounding the Miqo'te are just all about them being prostitutes and pleasure flesh. There's nothing there (that I've seen) that builds on the scant amount of lore we know about them. But maybe that's true for all the races.
To be fair, there was that one quest in Costa del Sol to talk to some dancers on the beach, and all races (except Lalafell) were represented.
I dunno. I would have less of a problem with it if it was actually part of the lore that Miqo'te tribes were promiscuous or that slave culture was part of their lives. But as it is, it's just fan service. Don't get me wrong, I love me some fan service. I guess I just want some variety. Why aren't the Elezen or Roegadyn allowed to be sexy? Spread the wealth.
RE: Does anyone else get kind of annoyed at how Miqo'te are represented in the world? - Oroban - 09-11-2013
(09-11-2013, 10:38 PM)Lost River Wrote: With all of that, I think all those Miqo'te make it big in Ul'dah or at least try. And pssh, maybe Lost River should try her best as a courtesan. But, more of an Asian flair to it, yeah! Giant lady in a kimono.Shut up and take my gil?
RE: Does anyone else get kind of annoyed at how Miqo'te are represented in the world? - Sigyn Shieldbreaker - 09-11-2013
(09-11-2013, 11:00 PM)Noble_Einherjar Wrote: Why aren't the Elezen or Roegadyn allowed to be sexy? Spread the wealth.
 I, sir, take offense! Siobhain is sexy! She's super sexy! She's just... a certain type of sexy.
 Isn't it up to us to maybe Roegadyns more sexy? Can't say for Elezen since I don't play one.
 Lost River... Let's have both our Roes be caught in Ul'dah and sold off as slaves. I think it'd be pretteh fantastic.
 Lost: Oh nuuuu~! No, seriously, hands off or I magic you into the next life.
 Sio: HULK SMASH!
(09-11-2013, 10:30 PM)K Wrote: Edit:
I think some of that was aimed at me, Siobhain, so I'll just add that I have zero qualms with RPers playing as miqo'te courtesans or anything! I have no problem with that idea at all. Was just a little sad that it seems to be becoming a stereotype or general depiction of the race as a whole ^^
I missed this post. I'm sorry there, hun, I don't mean to call you out at all. I understand how you might feel as someone who tried to play a Belf when Belfs were viewed poorly based on what many others decided to do with them. Like I said, I take this issue about the race being stereotyped, or worse, being treated like a joke or an easter egg very seriously.
I, personally, admit that I'm very jealous. It seems there's more on Miqo'te in just the little details of their naming conventions and their males to female dynamics than there are about Roegadyn. I really wish there was even this much to go off of, instead of having to assume Roegadyn are like Vikings. I wish there was a bit more flavor to it, you know? That's why I hope someone sees the more positive sides of Miqo'tes instead of being worried about how other people view them. I feel they're really lucky compared to the rest of us.