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+--- Thread: So this is a thing now? (/showthread.php?tid=9261)
RE: So this is a thing now? - Faye - 12-15-2014
(12-15-2014, 03:52 PM)Melkire Wrote:(12-15-2014, 03:24 PM)Faye Wrote: Why sell items on the market board when you could give them away to other players for free? It's the same principle.
No, what C'kayah is complaining about is more along the lines of listing some high-demand item on the marketboard, but then throwing up an advert in PF saying, "if you pay me this item's value, I'll take it off the market and reserve it for you; you can then trade me the listed price for the item itself".
But I don't see what's wrong with that, either? If people are willing to pay it, it's not exploitation, it's business. Either you want something badly enough to pay the extra gil, or you don't. It's not as if housing is mandatory or extremely important. Sadly that's just how it works when it comes to limited resources.
RE: So this is a thing now? - Kage - 12-15-2014
Except in Melkire's example the person on the Marketboard and PF is benefiting twice whereas the person selling a plot of land is not.
RE: So this is a thing now? - Hiro - 12-15-2014
Something missed in these is that the FC doesn't need to relinquish the plot if they've done things in their favor. A lot are doing this as a final push for their spot which enables them to kill two birds with one stone.
The other thing is, dependent on where the plot is there will be some hype on availability. Marketing is important here and some have done a fine job at this, advertising their lot being put up for sale and knowing there are multiple parties interested well before they're actually -ready- to do it. The reason why a lot of these lots didn't go into the first come first serve slot is because there were people willing to pay for the spot because they knew others were looking at it as well. If people didn't pay then the FC's that weren't willing to put in the few days it took to reform and make a new Rank 8 for their purchase probably would have put it up for grabs once they sold their plot. Someone didn't want to risk losing their shot and bought it, I don't see a reason to blame the people putting a bar up there and seeing who'll grab for it and disliking the fact that they did and someone grabbed it. If no one had taken it for their asking price then there wouldn't even be a problem, people would scoff and the standard would be set to watch them flounder and wait until they "give in or get smart".
RE: So this is a thing now? - ArmachiA - 12-15-2014
Back in beta they talked about letting people sell their property. I honestly wonder what made them change their mind on that.
RE: So this is a thing now? - C'kayah Polaali - 12-15-2014
My apologies for causing rancor. Please go back to your regular discussions.
RE: So this is a thing now? - Kage - 12-15-2014
Your questioning it implies that there is something wrong or devious in the practice of it.
There is none. It's not a thing. It simply is.
What -is- a thing is the generosity and kindness of those who simply relinquish their plots to people, whether set up here or elsewhere. That is a thing.
RE: So this is a thing now? - Devereau - 12-15-2014
I think I am more on board with the system of the housing being made iffy on account of SE, and people are acting in accordance. There are a few things you can weigh or think about when making a decision, with a bit of a critical thought to work around the system.Â
Many people have expressed their distaste with lack of availability between servers, but seeing as they implemented a similar system with weddings, and the changes in housing, it is not something in immenent lines to be fixed.Â
With how things work, things are quite expensive, but this can benefit you both ways. People are going to pay more for stuff, and the market is going to have more flowing in and out, so the ability to make money is far more bountiful on these servers than it is on a "stable" one.Â
Unfortunately, when a house is relinquished, it returns to maximum value minus devaluation. It is unfortunate, but the price scale of houses that are small makes them readily accessible by most people. Some people do want to have a way to make some costs back, so their only option is to sell. If someone is selling for more than house cost, such as the example of 12mil, all you can do is decide not to buy it. We must also consider that if you are going to sink 13mil into a small at this point, you also have the option of getting another extra mil or two to buy one of the free devalued mediums available.
This is particularly important to note, since chances are, the person selling their small house for a large amount probably wants one of those plots. By selling at a higher price, they are risking missing out on a house that you, the buyer, could wisely purchase first. There are checks and balances to all things, and as a buyer, you have much more power than perhaps you are giving credit for.Â
If the money is too high, there are people who are kind to simply relinquish. There are also people who just relinquish without telling a soul. I know a few people snatched houses like this. I wouldn't say the sellers are always the majority, because even they are selling with risks involved.Â
Also, it saves you from having to wake up at an ungodly hour to play the racing game, too. Some people find sleep has no monetary value too high.
RE: So this is a thing now? - C'kayah Polaali - 12-15-2014
My apologies for causing rancor. Please go back to your regular discussions.
RE: So this is a thing now? - Val - 12-15-2014
(12-15-2014, 06:22 PM)C Wrote:(12-15-2014, 05:24 PM)Kage Wrote: Your questioning it implies that there is something wrong or devious in the practice of it.
There is none. It's not a thing. It simply is.
What -is- a thing is the generosity and kindness of those who simply relinquish their plots to people, whether set up here or elsewhere. That is a thing.
See, now that actually makes no sense whatsoever. SE's housing system is their thing, and we don't have a lot of direct control over it. The practice of RPC members charging other RPC members to let them be there when they relinquish their house is a thing. It's our thing.
You can't look at it and say it simply is, as if we had nothing to do with it. It's part of our culture as RPC members. Part of our identity now. It's our thing because we choose to make it so.
I'll totally give you a discount on RP, though, Kage. 50% off my normal rates, because I like you.
I think it's as other people have pointed out here, honestly. It's just the way economics works. It's a commodity that is rare and people are willing to pay an expensive price for it. It's not unlike other questionable markets in the world: if no one wanted it, there would be no one paying gil for it and it wouldn't be a thing. The fact that people pay money for it means that it's at least coveted enough by an amount of people to uphold it. If people would stop paying for it, people would stop trying to sell it.Â
Is there something wrong with it? I don't know. It's not for me to really judge. I just feel it's supply and demand at work.
RE: So this is a thing now? - Hiro - 12-15-2014
(12-15-2014, 06:22 PM)C Wrote:(12-15-2014, 05:24 PM)Kage Wrote: Your questioning it implies that there is something wrong or devious in the practice of it.
There is none. It's not a thing. It simply is.
What -is- a thing is the generosity and kindness of those who simply relinquish their plots to people, whether set up here or elsewhere. That is a thing.
See, now that actually makes no sense whatsoever. SE's housing system is their thing, and we don't have a lot of direct control over it. The practice of RPC members charging other RPC members to let them be there when they relinquish their house is a thing. It's our thing.
You can't look at it and say it simply is, as if we had nothing to do with it. It's part of our culture as RPC members. Part of our identity now. It's our thing because we choose to make it so.
I'll totally give you a discount on RP, though, Kage. 50% off my normal rates, because I like you.
My major issue with that mind set is that it basically says:
As a very small, minor part of the vast community that is Balmung and Gilgamesh (primarily these two at least) we do not want to conform with the rest of the server as a whole. Be it as a compromise or social protest to the rest of the server, we as an entitled community get to:
- Suffer losses that is going against a trend that extends well beyond our small community for the sake of some sort of integrity.
- Potentially generate a cliquish belief system that those who do not adhere to this mindset are less in-tune or "for" the community than those who opt for the perceived "good guy/gal" friendly neighbor gesture.
I'm not sure what the RPC Communities "thing" is supposed to be but a lot of the direction this seems to be going is dictating some sort of form of ethics on how FC's or private housing owners affiliated with the RPC should behave, as if our community sets the standard for servers, never mind what is going on in the digital economy and state thereof around us.
RE: So this is a thing now? - C'kayah Polaali - 12-15-2014
My apologies for causing rancor. Please go back to your regular discussions.
RE: So this is a thing now? - Val - 12-15-2014
(12-15-2014, 07:54 PM)C Wrote: And yet we, as RPers, spend a bunch of our game time in activities that:
a) Don't generate gil (unless you're also charging gil for your RP)
b) Are pretty damn boring unless there's at least one other person there RPing with you, also foregoing their gil generation
c) Rely on some concept of community, as they are cooperative enterprises.
It's almost as if we feel that there are things more important than gil, mmmm? ;)
But the RP community as a whole is INCREDIBLY small. A great deal of RPers know other RPers, or at least know of those RPers through other people. Us not doing it isn't going to do anything for the community. To be honest if I had a plot to sell and someone offered me a bunch of gil for it (unless I knew them well), RPer or non-RPer, I'd sell it. Why not? I only have to gain for it and no one else is paying for my subscription but me. Since the property would belong to myself or my FC, I think it's all fair.
In fact, if the FC is selling the plot, I think that's even more incentive for them to sell it. Fill the FC's coffers with the profits to further supply the house that they'll inevitably upgrade to.
RE: So this is a thing now? - C'kayah Polaali - 12-15-2014
My apologies for causing rancor. Please go back to your regular discussions.
RE: So this is a thing now? - Val - 12-15-2014
(12-15-2014, 08:07 PM)C Wrote: You, my friend, have to pay full-price for my RP, then.
It'll eventually benefit Tylwyth Narah, when we move into our large house...
Sounds fine to me! It is, after all, how the economy worksÂ
RE: So this is a thing now? - Hiro - 12-15-2014
(12-15-2014, 07:54 PM)C Wrote: And yet we, as RPers, spend a bunch of our game time in activities that:
a) Don't generate gil (unless you're also charging gil for your RP)
b) Are pretty damn boring unless there's at least one other person there RPing with you, also foregoing their gil generation
c) Rely on some concept of community, as they are cooperative enterprises.
It's almost as if we feel that there are things more important than gil, mmmm?
There are certainly things more important than gil, however some people may feel the need or necessity therein to acquire it. The notion of abandoning the option of profit in this scenario largely due to basic RPC community association alienates those people who may have more than RPC ties as well. Their seeking to recoup losses for hard earned gil especially with the three points listed above being relevant in both directions tilts heavily towards something of a loss out of obligation than goodwill.
I could understand if your complaint were to avoid people utilizing the RPC to sell their FC or private housing in that manner, and even then if that were the case my own idea would be that as a community we're assisting our own to fulfill their duties to non-community members or friends or simply as an aspect of our community to grow within the confines of our servers state. I don't see how insisting those within the RPC forgo their ability to earn gil and improve their FC/private housing for the sake of outward integrity and protest against the current ethical state of the server economics and/or SE's poorly handled housing market is helpful at all or an improvement to our community in general. In current context it feels like a punishment or stranglehold over those who have the option to push the limits of the gil they make in transition, or that now, as a member of the RPC community we're somehow now being pressured to offer some sort of a hand out or break to others within?
Perhaps I haven't stated it clearly here, but right now the underlying tone of what is being considered the RPC's "thing" seems to be taking a route of intrusiveness and policy rather than a community feeling. I've always felt the RPC community was open, helpful, and laid back, I never once thought it would entail how me or my FC should be marketing our assets or what we choose to offer or not offer to the community beyond our good will, open arms, and inclusiveness.