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+--- Thread: OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) (/showthread.php?tid=12252)
RE: OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) - Unnamed Mercenary - 06-26-2015
mod note: As people may have noticed, there's about 2 pages of clipped posts not in the thread. We're working on cleaning up some posts, alerting users of not-ok posting behavior and whatnot. I hope to be able to return some of the relevant posts back to their place.
RE: OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) - Aaron - 06-26-2015
Honestly if you want to resolve issues all it takes is a open mind and killing your pride just enough to go the person who doesn't like you and go "Hey, can we try to work things out?"
If they say no and then probably b list you or something then they probably weren't worth your time anyway.Â
Screenshot you at least attempted to resolve the situation as evidence for later and boom. Move on.
It's not difficult, it's just some people want a validation they're right stick shoved up their ass and/or are too prideful to work a compromise.
I can straight up say "I don't like you but I will not talk shit about you out of respect. "
But some people apparently can't do that. Life moves on.
RE: OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) - Renata Lynn - 06-27-2015
(06-24-2015, 10:01 AM)Aaron Wrote: I don't talk trash about people lol there's plenty rpers around that can confirm this.But why do you do it to meeee? I'm not salty over anything!!
But if someone has something negative to say about me, all I ask is you man (or woman) up and tell me lol what am I gonna do reach through the screen and choke you?
If we still can't resolve the problem then I just go "Well, you CAN Blist you know?" Luckily I've never had a serious issue with anyone yet at least to my knowledge. Every one I talk to in game seems welcoming to me (flex).
But if people hate me for something rp relationship or something I wont be mad! Ill just cast "Salted Earth" over you every time I see you and move along.
 
RE: OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) - Suviyo Viyo - 06-27-2015
Personally I think that... while playing a "villain" and "jerk" character might be fun... it's often not very fun when it pops up spontaneously in RP sessions.
I've played villains in the past and it has always been based on a certain amount of planning and Private Message based consent gathering. I mean... it's not like we would plan out every detail of the RP and there was still a lot left to improvisational fun. Still, having the basic guidelines of "this is ok" and "this is not ok" at first really helped in that kind of... erm... "sensitive" RP territory.
I honestly feel like just butting into RP sessions with a villainous character and acting like a jerk without first gaining consent of all parties involved is treading on pretty shaky ground.
Not everyone feels like an antagonist is welcome or necessary or desired in their RP sessions.... and tension might be alleviated if you, the player of the villain, gague that receptiveness through PMs first.... no?
RE: OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) - Paradox - 06-28-2015
Wall of Text incoming.
I think when it comes down to issues like this, there are two facts one has to remember about the human race in general. One is that as a species, humans are collectively selfish (though there are exceptions). When one feels they've been slighted, even if they actually haven't been, impulse takes control and they go on a (generally nonviolent) rampage. The second fact is, convincing said humans of something they are already very convinced of in opposition of how they have convinced themselves it is, well..it is nigh on impossible. I think most, if not all of us are guilty in jumping to conclusions at one point or another in our lives. And unfortunately, when you put a bunch of creative, opinionated people in one big space together and tell them all to get along, someone's peanut butter is going to get into someone's chocolate, and one of them will invariably hate peanut butter or chocolate. Throw that in with the gang mentality of a lot of people, and the cliques that form (Yes, they do form, don't deny it. A lot of you may be in one and not even realize it because you're on the inside looking out), and you have a recipe for a lot of hurt feelings and misunderstandings among people who should all just be building together.
IC behavior can trigger negative OOC feelings if someone feels they're 'doing it on purpose', or 'it's being done to personally slight someone'. Unfortunately, this can be a misled judgment at the best of times, because nobody really knows the players behind the characters. I for example, can be very vitriolic OOC, but I also have a short temper (Working on it), and I do warn people of that when I meet them. I've never made it a secret I'm a confrontational person a lot of the time and I don't hold back my words when I feel something needs to be said..however, I have some sweet characters IC, and I do try to RP even with people I have issue with if I have no choice due to cross-FC friends or similar situations. But that's really not on topic.
If you're playing a bad guy, dark type, someone with a familiar background trope, or even just an asshole IC, because those do exist who are really cool people OOC..you'll find a lot of judgment. Judgment is the first impulse of a lot of roleplayers nowadays I'm finding. The snide little terms and words 'special snowflake' and 'edgy' get thrown around a lot, and honestly, after some scanning of some of the people that have been accused of such, that doesn't even mean someone's character is bad. A lot of the time in the community it just means 'I don't like your character/concept/etc because it doesn't suit my opinion of what it should be', and the ones that are disliked because someone doesn't like what you've made without even getting the chance to talk OOC or go further into detail get shamed or ridiculed because someone wants to start a humiliation conga. GG. It happens more than you think. A lot of roleplayers are judgmental people, and drama can often start from just one snarky little remark because they couldn't keep their judgmental words to themselves. Try roleplaying with the 'snowflakes' sometimes. Some just like to play things really off the wall and garner negative drama or get shamed for doing so, yet I've met some really good people in giving them a chance regardless of where their creative process goes. Protip: Don't hug tightly to your idea of roleplay as gospel. Expand. Drama actually decreases when you drop judgment.
Like Glioca, if I've experienced personal drama, I will inform the people I'm close to or that are within my personal circle of actual friends. I don't really spread it all over the world. I just like to keep my friends from having to deal with the same shit I went through. I also make it a point to let them know not to spread shit around. And generally the people I stay close to listen. As far as the drama goes though, it's unavoidable. Some individuals will always believe their opinion is fact, and while it's their right to roleplay their own way, OOC they're often bent on forcing what they believe is fact down your throat, and calling you a bad roleplayer or taking what you say out of context because what they hear is not what you say, and shaming you to the whole community about it. See the whole 'snowflake' talk above. I find this is especially common of individuals who have some clout or are recognized in a lot of communities who've had their ego stroked by others. Being 'recognized' or 'famous' is often a huge doorway lead into drama. Doesn't matter how many people recognize someone, an individual's internet/community fame isn't a right to walk over others.
Drama will happen. That's all there is to it. Someone who causes it without just cause eventually gets their real face shown to the public, and a karmic debt is paid. People will only put up with bullshit for so long, because if there's one thing people hate more than constant drama, it's being lied to; and when a pattern is recognized, doubt comes into play. Genuine problem causers will only last so long, even among their friends because drama snakes tend to eat their tails. So your best bet if you're the victim of drama is to game on with the people you do know and trust, and hope that the rest of the community will use their own reasoning skills and experiences from roleplaying with you to continue to do so. If someone listens to someone else's opinion before forming their own by interacting with you? Eh, no big loss. The community's a big place. Even if one group doesn't like you, there's bound to be another group that doesn't like that group. The best way to think of any RP community is like a high school. Find your niche and go with what works. You'll find good people who don't listen to the gossipy BS, and a few are all you need.
RE: OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) - Allister Dedrick - 06-28-2015
(06-27-2015, 05:56 AM)Suviyo Viyo Wrote: Not everyone feels like an antagonist is welcome or necessary or desired in their RP sessions.... and tension might be alleviated if you, the player of the villain, gague that receptiveness through PMs first.... no?
Unless it is specifically requested in their search comments, I have to respectfully disagree with sending a PM to someone before engaging in open-world RP (within reason, of course). The whole idea of open-world RP is that it is spontaneous; anything could happen. If someone is to put themselves in a hotspot like Ul'dah to seek out walk-up RP, I would be shocked if they honestly expected every encounter to be a good one. If someone does not want their RP session to have random characters join in, it would make sense to avoid a melting pot for exactly that.
I roleplay a character who is naturally confrontational. He is no stranger to punches in the face for acting like an ass. He's a big goof, really, and makes a daily habit of embarrassing himself by acting like an ass. He thinks of himself as the guy who says what everyone else is thinking, although he's rarely correct. It adds a fun dynamic to RP, but it inevitably causes hurt feelings. While he isn't 'evil' or 'villainous' by any stretch of the imagination, people aren't expected to like Allister at all. What troubles me is how people's dislike of the character consistently bleeds into an OOC dislike of me as a person. I'm troubled because, for so many people, the line between IC and OOC is nearly indistinguishable.
RE: OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) - Addison - 06-28-2015
(06-28-2015, 11:27 AM)Allister Dedrick Wrote:(06-27-2015, 05:56 AM)Suviyo Viyo Wrote: Not everyone feels like an antagonist is welcome or necessary or desired in their RP sessions.... and tension might be alleviated if you, the player of the villain, gague that receptiveness through PMs first.... no?
Unless it is specifically requested in their search comments, I have to respectfully disagree with sending a PM to someone before engaging in open-world RP (within reason, of course). The whole idea of open-world RP is that it is spontaneous; anything could happen. If someone is to put themselves in a hotspot like Ul'dah to seek out walk-up RP, I would be shocked if they honestly expected every encounter to be a good one. If someone does not want their RP session to have random characters join in, it would make sense to avoid a melting pot for exactly that.
I roleplay a character who is naturally confrontational. He is no stranger to punches in the face for acting like an ass. He's a big goof, really, and makes a daily habit of embarrassing himself by acting like an ass. He thinks of himself as the guy who says what everyone else is thinking, although he's rarely correct. It adds a fun dynamic to RP, but it inevitably causes hurt feelings. While he isn't 'evil' or 'villainous' by any stretch of the imagination, people aren't expected to like Allister at all. What troubles me is how people's dislike of the character consistently bleeds into an OOC dislike of me as a person. I'm troubled because, for so many people, the line between IC and OOC is nearly indistinguishable.
I have to agree with this.
It's not exactly 'open world RP' if you're filtering every interaction you OOCly dislike. Sometimes I feel as if people aren't as open to 'open world RP' as they like to proclaim. Instead, it seems like there's a large group of roleplayers* that view open world RP as 'open world RP but only if you read the fine print of this contract stating all rules and regulations for interaction with my character then sign with your blood.'
*Just noting I'm not pointing out anyone here specifically, but the whole PC 'ask my permission before you breathe anywhere near my character' is a plague rampant in the EQ2 community, and a large part of the reason RP is so stifled there.
RE: OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) - V'aleera - 06-28-2015
(06-28-2015, 11:27 AM)Allister Dedrick Wrote: The whole idea of open-world RP is that it is spontaneous; anything could happen.How far does this philosophy go though? Would you entertain the approach of a character written as the dimension traveling child of Lightning and Cloud who is the Azure Dragoon and slayer of Bahamut Prime?
RE: OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) - Paradox - 06-28-2015
I would certainly entertain such a thing myself. Would my character look at them as if they are insane? Certainly. If they thought they could somehow back it up? I'd certainly let them try and convince me. Sometimes fun RP is about even the nonsensical, and letting things flow. Sometimes insane people or drunks say all kinds of nutty things. People having outlandish concepts to me, isn't 'don't rp with them', it's 'what kind of rp can I make out of this outlandishness that flows'. But that's me.
RE: OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) - Cato - 06-28-2015
FFXIV's community is a little bizarre in my eyes since a troubling number of role-players seem to want every last little detail of their role-play planned out in advance. Personally I loathe such an approach as I much prefer to have surprises to indulge in. I don't want to know the ending to a book before I read it - nor do I wish every aspect of someone's character or event to be revealed immediately.
One has to wonder - if people cannot trust their partner(s) in role-play to act in a manner that they find satisfying...then why interact with those individuals in the first place? More importantly, why do so many role-players seem to expect everybody to approach them and tell them what is going to happen? Where's the excitement in that?
If role-play ends up going in a direction that someone is not impressed by then it's as simple as walking away and leaving polite feedback to explain one's reasoning. Â I also find it odd that people use extreme examples to justify their approach when the likelihood of every other character someone encounters being a major lore breach is slim at best.
The cynic in me is starting to believe that quite a few role-players spend more time micromanaging role-play than they spend on actual role-play. Perhaps I'm mistaken but that's the impression I get whenever the reasoning in question is presented.
Each to their own, I guess.
RE: OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) - Yours Truly - 06-28-2015
(06-28-2015, 11:27 AM)Allister Dedrick Wrote:(06-27-2015, 05:56 AM)Suviyo Viyo Wrote: Not everyone feels like an antagonist is welcome or necessary or desired in their RP sessions.... and tension might be alleviated if you, the player of the villain, gague that receptiveness through PMs first.... no?
Unless it is specifically requested in their search comments, I have to respectfully disagree with sending a PM to someone before engaging in open-world RP (within reason, of course). The whole idea of open-world RP is that it is spontaneous; anything could happen. If someone is to put themselves in a hotspot like Ul'dah to seek out walk-up RP, I would be shocked if they honestly expected every encounter to be a good one. If someone does not want their RP session to have random characters join in, it would make sense to avoid a melting pot for exactly that.
I roleplay a character who is naturally confrontational. He is no stranger to punches in the face for acting like an ass. He's a big goof, really, and makes a daily habit of embarrassing himself by acting like an ass. He thinks of himself as the guy who says what everyone else is thinking, although he's rarely correct. It adds a fun dynamic to RP, but it inevitably causes hurt feelings. While he isn't 'evil' or 'villainous' by any stretch of the imagination, people aren't expected to like Allister at all. What troubles me is how people's dislike of the character consistently bleeds into an OOC dislike of me as a person. I'm troubled because, for so many people, the line between IC and OOC is nearly indistinguishable.
I agree that the line between IC and OOC should be as free and clear as possible, and that characters with the potential for hostility and conflict bring a much needed dynamic to RP in general. But... the thing is, there's also a world of difference between a well-played adversarial character, and a schmuck who just spews garbage that sounds like shitty, re-purposed real world rhetoric.
Some people are capable of dealing with that mundane sort of hate and having fun with it, but some aren't - and I don't think it's necessarily a poor reflection of them. Certain forms of bigotry cut too close to home for some people to want to deal with in their pretend fantasy writing time, and if you're particularly insistent or mean-spirited in how you bring those themes to their character, is it really that surprising that you'd leave a bad OOC impression? Just because they're not comfortable tackling certain topics with a random writer they don't know and it leaves a bad taste in their mouth doesn't mean they're incapable of separating themselves from their character.
I'm having fun playing up the refugee angle on my Au Ra, for example. I would genuinely enjoy bumping into a racist asshole IC; it'd be a fun chance for me to wring some development or angst for my character out of it, whatever. Someone else might not be in a place where they're alright with tackling that subject, though, and that's okay.
I don't know you, or your character, and I'm genuinely not trying to get on your case here - but I do think it's disingenuous to put the blame entirely on the people who take offense to that sort of RP. I'm not saying that you have to ask someone's permission on an OOC level before you say or do anything contentious, but like - if you're gonna drag in painful real world bigotry that doesn't even seem to really have a basis to exist in-game (homophobia, for instance) without feeling out whether the other writer might be comfortable with sort of thing first, don't be surprised if you get a bad reaction from them.
RE: OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) - V'aleera - 06-28-2015
(06-28-2015, 12:57 PM)Graeham Wrote: FFXIV's community is a little bizarre in my eyes since a troubling number of role-players seem to want every last little detail of their role-play planned out in advance.Do they? Or do they simply want to have an understanding of the fundamental premise of the RP before engaging in it? The problem I see with your argument is that, ignoring the straw man which you've erected to knock down, you have an issue with the expression of preference in an open space and that is simply something that neither can nor should be "fixed".
I would ask you what the difference is between, say, an RPer going to the Quicksand and specifically looking for another character with which to debate Eorzean geopolitics and a person going to the library and immediately heading to the fantasy section rather than choosing a book at random.
RE: OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) - Allister Dedrick - 06-28-2015
(06-28-2015, 01:17 PM)Yours Truly Wrote: I don't know you, or your character, and I'm genuinely not trying to get on your case here - but I do think it's disingenuous to put the blame entirely on the people who take offense to that sort of RP. I'm not saying that you have to ask someone's permission on an OOC level before you say or do anything contentious, but like - if you're gonna drag in painful real world bigotry that doesn't even seem to really have a basis to exist in-game (homophobia, for instance) without feeling out whether the other writer might be comfortable with sort of thing first, don't be surprised if you get a bad reaction from them
Yeah, it's cool, I understand. Like I said, Allister isn't some sort of hateful monster, he's just a goof who makes snarky comments at people. However, if Allister is going to make a comment, I make it a rule to avoid real world issues. Homophobia doesn't even exist in Eorzea, so it wouldn't make sense to have him comment about that.
His main shtick is that he gives almost everyone he meets a nickname, ranging from friendly to hostile depending on his opinion of the person. At its worst, it's on the same level as grade-school bullying, which is why I am concerned that people are still taking it personally.
RE: OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) - Aaron - 06-28-2015
(06-27-2015, 02:53 AM)Eorla Brynn Wrote:Because I love you obviously(06-24-2015, 10:01 AM)Aaron Wrote: I don't talk trash about people lol there's plenty rpers around that can confirm this.But why do you do it to meeee? I'm not salty over anything!!
But if someone has something negative to say about me, all I ask is you man (or woman) up and tell me lol what am I gonna do reach through the screen and choke you?
If we still can't resolve the problem then I just go "Well, you CAN Blist you know?" Luckily I've never had a serious issue with anyone yet at least to my knowledge. Every one I talk to in game seems welcoming to me (flex).
But if people hate me for something rp relationship or something I wont be mad! Ill just cast "Salted Earth" over you every time I see you and move along.
RE: OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) - Cato - 06-28-2015
(06-28-2015, 02:34 PM)Intaki Wrote:(06-28-2015, 12:57 PM)Graeham Wrote: FFXIV's community is a little bizarre in my eyes since a troubling number of role-players seem to want every last little detail of their role-play planned out in advance.Do they? Or do they simply want to have an understanding of the fundamental premise of the RP before engaging in it? The problem I see with your argument is that, ignoring the straw man which you've erected to knock down, you have an issue with the expression of preference in an open space and that is simply something that neither can nor should be "fixed".
I would ask you what the difference is between, say, an RPer going to the Quicksand and specifically looking for another character with which to debate Eorzean geopolitics and a person going to the library and immediately heading to the fantasy section rather than choosing a book at random.
I hold the firm belief that if somebody wishes to engage in random role-play then it should be as organic as possible. If I head to the Quicksand - something I would not do often for various reasons - then I, personally, would find it rude to message someone and outline my terms. I would, instead, much prefer to go with the flow.
If something doesn't work out then I always have the power to take my leave of the situation and extensive planning is better suited to coordinated events rather than every last little interaction. Personally I find such an approach leads to stagnation - and if people enjoy that sort of thing more power to them!
I'd simply ask that you avoid brushing aside my personal opinion by throwing the term 'straw man' around. At no point did I suggest that my way is the right way. I'm simply outlining my own thoughts and concerns. It's a debate, after all! Though I imagine it's a mere misunderstanding!