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Reclamation of Inactive Housing (details) - Printable Version

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RE: Reclamation of Inactive Housing (details) - Lydia Lightfoot - 10-20-2015

(10-20-2015, 03:53 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: I think heat was a tongue in cheek response.

But actually, it is a console issue. A window/UI box can only lost so many things because it becomes visually difficult to read. Especially if someone is sitting a "recommended" distance from their TV.

Have you seen the Inventory menu in a typical Final Fantasy game? Dozens and dozens of items, and you scroll down them using this little cartoon hand icon that points to the item you're currently on. I'm sure if there were 50 wards, this would work just fine, especially if they allowed the user to re-sort the list (so if your friends' houses are on wards 27, 31, and 44, you could move those three to the top of the list if you wanted, for less scrolling).

RE: Reclamation of Inactive Housing (details) - V'aleera - 10-20-2015

Given SE was bold enough to put player housing as a front and center feature on the remodeled FFXIV homepage, I'm hoping this reflects confidence in equally bold changes to be implemented in their planned three-phase housing changes.

RE: Reclamation of Inactive Housing (details) - Kage - 10-20-2015

(10-20-2015, 04:27 PM)Calliope Cloverbloom Wrote:
(10-20-2015, 03:53 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: I think heat was a tongue in cheek response.

But actually, it is a console issue. A window/UI box can only lost so many things because it becomes visually difficult to read. Especially if someone is sitting a "recommended" distance from their TV.

Have you seen the Inventory menu in a typical Final Fantasy game? Dozens and dozens of items, and you scroll down them using this little cartoon hand icon that points to the item you're currently on. I'm sure if there were 50 wards, this would work just fine, especially if they allowed the user to re-sort the list (so if your friends' houses are on wards 27, 31, and 44, you could move those three to the top of the list if you wanted, for less scrolling).
Well... it took them like 2 years to add in TP bars... They'd mentioned it was PS3 limitations for the UI/HUD

RE: Reclamation of Inactive Housing (details) - Unnamed Mercenary - 10-20-2015

(10-20-2015, 04:32 PM)Kage Wrote:
(10-20-2015, 04:27 PM)Calliope Cloverbloom Wrote:
(10-20-2015, 03:53 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: I think heat was a tongue in cheek response.

But actually, it is a console issue. A window/UI box can only lost so many things because it becomes visually difficult to read. Especially if someone is sitting a "recommended" distance from their TV.

Have you seen the Inventory menu in a typical Final Fantasy game? Dozens and dozens of items, and you scroll down them using this little cartoon hand icon that points to the item you're currently on. I'm sure if there were 50 wards, this would work just fine, especially if they allowed the user to re-sort the list (so if your friends' houses are on wards 27, 31, and 44, you could move those three to the top of the list if you wanted, for less scrolling).
Well... it took them like 2 years to add in TP bars... They'd mentioned it was PS3 limitations for the UI/HUD

And that the font is MASSIVE in a typical console game. Not everything scales so nicely as a MMO.

A scrolling list for houses would probably work quite nicely, if they were to implement it that way. (But they didn't :< ). My point is just that with the current UI where everything is a static entry, it wouldn't be feasible to do so, much like how it's be silly to have every teleport location all on the same window without any tabs. They could do it, but it's be awful.

But even then, scrolling lists have their limits. Ever tried to scroll down the friends list for a moogle mail? It's terrible if you have more than maybe 20 people in there. x_x

RE: Reclamation of Inactive Housing (details) - LiadansWhisper - 10-20-2015

(10-20-2015, 03:53 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote:
(10-20-2015, 03:47 PM)Calliope Cloverbloom Wrote:
(10-20-2015, 01:38 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:
(10-20-2015, 12:34 PM)Calliope Cloverbloom Wrote: Perhaps this has been answered elsewhere, but has SE given any reason for the lack of demand-driven wards?

Housing in another MMO, Lord of the Rings Online, was very much like it is in FFXIV - wards of houses, and each ward had the same layout as the other wards. Their system was set up to generate two (or three? I don't remember) vacant wards if the existing wards were 90% of a given house size (there were three sizes) were purchased, or if the existing wards were just 80% full overall across all sizes. Servers with low populations just ended up with few wards, while the popular ones had many wards.

I'm totally at a loss as to why that wouldn't work for FFXIV. Has there been a dev explanation for the current Super Restricted Availability Policy?

PS3 limitations. 

._.

I'm not sure what additional housing wards has to do with PS3. A player can only be in one given ward at any time, and client-side you only process data relevant to where you are right then in the game.... so the existence of 5 wards or 500 wards shouldn't impact any player's processing load.

I think heat was a tongue in cheek response.

But actually, it is a console issue. A window/UI box can only lost so many things because it becomes visually difficult to read. Especially if someone is sitting a "recommended" distance from their TV.

It was tongue-in-cheek, but that's not the actual issue why the wards are limited.

So, for whatever reason, when SE designed the Gardening (and, I believe, the Chocobo Raising) systems, they made it so those pieces (the plants/plot) have to constantly check in with the server in order to "grow."

The problem with this is that it requires the Wards to be active at all times.  They must exist at all times. (This is also, incidentally, why they can't seem to get gardening to work for FC house rooms, as those rooms do not exist when no one is in them, which is why you get booted to the front lawn when you DC and log back in.)  What SE has said is that, because the wards MUST be persistent, there simply isn't enough room in the hardware itself to support an infinite number of them 100% of the time.

This is why they have a limited number of wards, and this is why the housing system is complete balls on any server that has a significant population.  So until they fix the gardening system to stop being stupid, or they add more hardware, we're stuck with a system where they can only have a limited number of wards on each individual server.

So they say, anyway.

Here's hoping they figure a way around it, because I want a damn house (and I would really like them to do something with wherever those random roads out of the housing areas were supposed to go to, because it's obvious they were supposed to go to something else, but they've never put it in).

RE: Reclamation of Inactive Housing (details) - LiadansWhisper - 10-20-2015

(10-20-2015, 04:27 PM)Calliope Cloverbloom Wrote:
(10-20-2015, 03:53 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: I think heat was a tongue in cheek response.

But actually, it is a console issue. A window/UI box can only lost so many things because it becomes visually difficult to read. Especially if someone is sitting a "recommended" distance from their TV.

Have you seen the Inventory menu in a typical Final Fantasy game? Dozens and dozens of items, and you scroll down them using this little cartoon hand icon that points to the item you're currently on. I'm sure if there were 50 wards, this would work just fine, especially if they allowed the user to re-sort the list (so if your friends' houses are on wards 27, 31, and 44, you could move those three to the top of the list if you wanted, for less scrolling).

What's in your inventory is simply a database entry.  It doesn't take up any real "space" in the hardware itself.  Housing wards take up actual space.

RE: Reclamation of Inactive Housing (details) - Lydia Lightfoot - 10-20-2015

(10-20-2015, 04:49 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: What's in your inventory is simply a database entry.  It doesn't take up any real "space" in the hardware itself.  Housing wards take up actual space.

Only while the ward is loaded (which you've explained is apparently all the time due to the gardening thing - so at the moment... yeah). If it's not being viewed by anybody, then it's just DB entries too.

RE: Reclamation of Inactive Housing (details) - LiadansWhisper - 10-20-2015

(10-20-2015, 05:01 PM)Calliope Cloverbloom Wrote:
(10-20-2015, 04:49 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: What's in your inventory is simply a database entry.  It doesn't take up any real "space" in the hardware itself.  Housing wards take up actual space.

Only while the ward is loaded (which you've explained is apparently all the time due to the gardening thing - so at the moment... yeah). If it's not being viewed by anybody, then it's just DB entries too.

It really isn't.  It's up all the time.  It exists, up and running, even when no one is in it.  That's the entire point of what I was saying.  It doesn't just exist as a database entry that's only called upon when you open your bags and doesn't really "exist" in 3d or whatever.  The Wards are up 100% of the time, always running.  They are always chewing up fluid memory as well as hardware space, and they take up MUCH MORE than the database entry that is your inventory.

RE: Reclamation of Inactive Housing (details) - Kage - 10-20-2015

(10-20-2015, 05:03 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:
(10-20-2015, 05:01 PM)Calliope Cloverbloom Wrote:
(10-20-2015, 04:49 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: What's in your inventory is simply a database entry.  It doesn't take up any real "space" in the hardware itself.  Housing wards take up actual space.

Only while the ward is loaded (which you've explained is apparently all the time due to the gardening thing - so at the moment... yeah). If it's not being viewed by anybody, then it's just DB entries too.

It really isn't.  It's up all the time.  It exists, up and running, even when no one is in it.  That's the entire point of what I was saying.  It doesn't just exist as a database entry that's only called upon when you open your bags and doesn't really "exist" in 3d or whatever.  The Wards are up 100% of the time, always running.  They are always chewing up fluid memory as well as hardware space, and they take up MUCH MORE than the database entry that is your inventory.
Mmmm I remember people always making notes to people to make sure they took care of their gardens before long maintenances or else you'd get the ill purple glow thing (sick plants? whatevers)

RE: Reclamation of Inactive Housing (details) - Ignacius - 10-20-2015

(10-20-2015, 05:03 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:
(10-20-2015, 05:01 PM)Calliope Cloverbloom Wrote:
(10-20-2015, 04:49 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: What's in your inventory is simply a database entry.  It doesn't take up any real "space" in the hardware itself.  Housing wards take up actual space.

Only while the ward is loaded (which you've explained is apparently all the time due to the gardening thing - so at the moment... yeah). If it's not being viewed by anybody, then it's just DB entries too.

It really isn't.  It's up all the time.  It exists, up and running, even when no one is in it.  That's the entire point of what I was saying.  It doesn't just exist as a database entry that's only called upon when you open your bags and doesn't really "exist" in 3d or whatever.  The Wards are up 100% of the time, always running.  They are always chewing up fluid memory as well as hardware space, and they take up MUCH MORE than the database entry that is your inventory.

It doesn't really matter because, between FC housing and personal housing, I don't often see a ward completely empty anyway.

However, the problem is that, as built, this is a terrible system for memory issues.  That means SE needs to be fixing it ASAP, because a system that is built with problem is a system that needs to be rebuilt.

It would likely be fine if housing was personal on spun instances and the wards were purchased, maintained, and exclusive.

RE: Reclamation of Inactive Housing (details) - LiadansWhisper - 10-20-2015

(10-20-2015, 05:33 PM)Kage Wrote: Mmmm I remember people always making notes to people to make sure they took care of their gardens before long maintenances or else you'd get the ill purple glow thing (sick plants? whatevers)

Yeah, apparently maintenance messes with the "time passed" part of it, so even if you water your plants right before maintenance, you need someone on to do it right after as it always seems to use up FAR more time while down than when the servers are running.

RE: Reclamation of Inactive Housing (details) - Kage - 10-21-2015

If patch 3.1 drops on Nov 10 like people think, a few plots may be available at or on Christmas :>

RE: Reclamation of Inactive Housing (details) - Aldotsk - 10-21-2015

Time to check my ward to see if one of those wards will be demolished so I can buy my alts plots that I've earned from dailies. Since I usually come online almost everyday to check, I can just hop onto my alts and just enter my house to let that 45+ days be gone.

An amazing idea, by the way. At least people get 80% of their purchased plots and most of the furnishings back. 45 Days is not terrible. It's really fair. I thought they'd make it 30 days, but extension of another 15 days with email warnings is definitely a fair deal.

I am glad this is happening since there will be plenty of people who want the plot including me as well, and they needed to get rid of dead plots with inactive players already.

RE: Reclamation of Inactive Housing (details) - rainichan - 10-21-2015

In regards to the finite space discussion, you're able to upgrade a PC to run better specs, load more assets in a virtual box such as a game, etc. With a ps3, it runs on fixed parts. You can load in a different HDD, sure, but replacing the motherboard, upgrading ram, etc? No can do. You can replace parts if they finally bite the dust, but it uses specialized parts for the hardware that don't seem to be able to be upgraded (google has told me as much beyond "you can try to mod it but it may/may not work" and that comes with its own issues.) Trying to stay within x amount of ram specs, memory issues, and whatever else on the ps3 while catering to their PC users who can swap out a new graphics card, sound card, etc to make their game run smoothly is not an easy task. Too much on a screen in hardware you're already pushing to the max can cause it to just not work, which is why I can believe them when they said "We have no idea how to implement TP bars just yet so it doesn't overload your ps3" before they swapped elements out. So for servers to be used for housing are storing a good amount of data plus whatever else they have running on them for maintenance and whatnot plus the inferior ps3 specs they have to still cater to until they release 4.0 in the next year or so makes it limited in how they can do things.

Instancing it out would probably cause problems with the instance server (since that's where your dungeon instances likely are too, or they're at least in the same server cluster) in slowdowns, or it wouldn't be what they wanted to go for in the way of "walk up to anyone's house, look at their cute interior/exterior designs, get to know your neighbors!" I remember the XI approach in having to have people in your party and having to inviting them into your Mog House; I wanted friends to be able to just walk in should they wish. So its got its pros and cons,

I think the way they've handled housing thusfar hasn't been the best, and yeah they could stand to change it (and maybe they're restructuring it in the shadows, separating FC housing and personal housing from each other and will make that announcement later!) but for now, yeah it's a bandaid but it's a temp fix for them before they can implement a permanent fix. Better server infrastructure and all would be great, and maybe they're upgrading them, who knows!

tl;dr I like the way they're going about it! They're giving ample warning with emails to everyone in a FC, a house owner, multiple times. But as a lot of people on reddit have even pointed out, if you've got an empty house/lot that you just have as a trophy and aren't doing anything with it, give it to someone else who will actually use it instead of just letting it sit.

RE: Reclamation of Inactive Housing (details) - Lydia Lightfoot - 10-21-2015

(10-21-2015, 10:30 AM)Aldotsk Wrote: Time to check my ward to see if one of those wards will be demolished so I can buy my alts plots that I've earned from dailies. Since I usually come online almost everyday to check, I can just hop onto my alts and just enter my house to let that 45+ days be gone.

An amazing idea, by the way. At least people get 80% of their purchased plots and most of the furnishings back. 45 Days is not terrible. It's really fair. I thought they'd make it 30 days, but extension of another 15 days with email warnings is definitely a fair deal.

I am glad this is happening since there will be plenty of people who want the plot including me as well, and they needed to get rid of dead plots with inactive players already.

Given that there are a lot of players who don't have even one house due to the finite availability, yet they are active players, I sorta feel like maybe it would be really nice of you to consider not buying houses for your alts. It doesn't make a lot of logical sense for one player to have multiple houses when other players have none. Sad