(11-06-2015, 03:32 AM)McBeefâ„¢ Wrote: I would argue they are often victims of poor socioeconomic conditions. As others have said, very few sex workers would choose that work over an equally well paid job that would fit their own particular needs.

(11-06-2015, 03:35 AM)Oli! Wrote:

(11-06-2015, 03:34 AM)PkThunda Wrote:

(11-06-2015, 03:32 AM)McBeefâ„¢ Wrote: I would argue they are often victims of poor socioeconomic conditions. As others have said, very few sex workers would choose that work over an equally well paid job that would fit their own particular needs.

As are many minimum wage workers who hold 2-3 jobs they would rather not have.

It's worth noting that they fall into the definition of "Prostitute" that McBeef mentioned earlier.

There is a very real school of philosophical and socioeconomic thought that states that any person that is forced to overwork, or otherwise sell their energy or decency at a level which they find disagreeable is undergoing systematic prostitution.

EDIT: 666th post, oh boy.

(11-06-2015, 03:21 AM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: *words that would get too long if I quoted the nesting quotes*

(11-06-2015, 03:35 AM)Valeera Wrote: Not at all. If someone asks me to describe the new neighbors and I call them a pair of friendly N*****s from Ohio, have I erred? The statement clearly communicates the ethnicity of the new neighbors and is made with no ill or insulting intent.

Again, my line of argument is directed specifically at the original poster to which I responded, wherein the poster asserted that so long as a word is used in a technically correct fashion and without ill intent that it is acceptable.

(11-06-2015, 03:35 AM)V Wrote: If someone asks me to describe the new neighbors and I call them a pair of friendly N*****s from Ohio, have I erred? The statement clearly communicates the ethnicity of the new neighbors and is made with no ill or insulting intent. 

(11-06-2015, 03:37 AM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:

(11-06-2015, 03:35 AM)V Wrote: Not at all. If someone asks me to describe the new neighbors and I call them a pair of friendly N*****s from Ohio, have I erred? The statement clearly communicates the ethnicity of the new neighbors and is made with no ill or insulting intent.

Again, my line of argument is directed specifically at the original poster to which I responded, wherein the poster asserted that so long as a word is used in a technically correct fashion and without ill intent that it is acceptable.

Ethnicity is not a job description.  Again, apples to oranges.

(11-06-2015, 03:38 AM)Oli! Wrote:

(11-06-2015, 03:35 AM)V Wrote: If someone asks me to describe the new neighbors and I call them a pair of friendly N*****s from Ohio, have I erred? The statement clearly communicates the ethnicity of the new neighbors and is made with no ill or insulting intent. 

Honestly, I would say no.

There are people that were brought up in situations that state that that is an okay use of that word. It may be worth it to tell them that certain people would prefer not to be thought of that way, and then expect them to remember that going forward, but faulting someone for something which they perceive to be okay until they are told otherwise is silly.

It's like expecting someone who's never seen a car before to drive perfectly their first time with no instruction, and then yelling at them when they wrap it around a telephone pole.

(11-06-2015, 03:36 AM)McBeefâ„¢ Wrote:

(11-06-2015, 03:30 AM)PkThunda Wrote: I should add something important:

Sexworkers are allowed to reclaim the language if they want to. If you know a sexworker who is alright with you saying certain words in private, then go ahead! The issue comes up when in a public setting like a forum here.

There are an estimated 42 million sex workers in the world. Most of them are poor women of color. 

What makes you think you have the authority to speak for them, and say what words the group should be referred to as?

I am a transgender woman, however I don't feel I have the authority to speak about the community at large, only my own opinions.

However you think you have this right? How so? Are you the head of a large group? Did you give a survey? Have you been petitioned?

I'm very curious as to your answer.

(11-06-2015, 03:38 AM)Oli! Wrote: Honestly, I would say no.

(11-06-2015, 03:39 AM)McBeefâ„¢ Wrote: Also the word is inherently insulting aka "A Slur" so unless you purposefully use it in a way that defeats that fact it's insulting.

(11-06-2015, 03:36 AM)McBeefâ„¢ Wrote:

(11-06-2015, 03:30 AM)PkThunda Wrote: I should add something important:

Sexworkers are allowed to reclaim the language if they want to. If you know a sexworker who is alright with you saying certain words in private, then go ahead! The issue comes up when in a public setting like a forum here.

There are an estimated 42 million sex workers in the world. Most of them are poor women of color. 

What makes you think you have the authority to speak for them, and say what words the group should be referred to as?

I am a transgender woman, however I don't feel I have the authority to speak about the community at large, only my own opinions.

However you think you have this right? How so? Are you the head of a large group? Did you give a survey? Have you been petitioned?

I'm very curious as to your answer.

(11-06-2015, 03:43 AM)V Wrote:

(11-06-2015, 03:38 AM)Oli! Wrote: Honestly, I would say no.

I censored myself because, while I have no issue using these words explicitly in appropriate discussions, I prefer not to in highly visible public forums out of respect for people who would rather not see them.

With that said, would your opinion change if I told you that my hypothetical scenario was about using the form of the term ending with "er" and not the more colloquially affectionate "ga"?

(11-06-2015, 03:46 AM)Oli! Wrote: That doesn't make a difference regarding cultural situation or innocent unknowing, so no.

(11-06-2015, 03:37 AM)synaesthetic Wrote: No, you're right, ultimately it's the whole concept of trading sex for money that grosses people out and makes them think bad things. No matter what you call it, it's going to always have that connotation (at least unless we manage to uproot all this puritanical nonsense in our culture).

My faith in humanity dropped several points as I thought about this, but oh well, not like I had much to begin with.

Quote:It's good that you don't think bad things when you think about sex workers. I don't automatically think those things, either. But I grew up in the South, surrounded by a crapton of religious regressive right-wing wingnuts. My whole family is full of them.

If there was a bad thing to think about anyone who wasn't exactly like them, they sure thought it. I'm so used to the neutral position being impossible, much less a positive position even existing (though that's changed now that I've met people, including voluntary sex workers).

Quote:wrt your statement about trans women and the assumption of sex work: it mostly happens to POCs. In a lot of places, especially red states, trans women of color are assumed to be prostitutes by law enforcement and are often arrested and detained for nonsense charges like "manifesting prostitution."

https://www.aclu.org/blog/arrested-walking-while-trans-interview-monica-jones <- this is a good read on the subject of "walking while trans."

Quote:I'm white and I live in the SF bay area, so I don't automatically have problems with law enforcement. Even the Oakland cops are usually smiles and waves when I walk past. But because I'm both extremely poor and have lived in poor neighborhoods, I have gotten a lot of the general cis male creepers harassing me, but so much of it to the point where I just wouldn't leave the house after dark.